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Post by boraddict on Jul 20, 2021 20:04:45 GMT -6
It's good to keep in mind we are talking about satan here, who can be in one person or in many. He can do both, so having him described as an individual and a group in not inconsistent with other scripture. Even his minions can be one or more, remember Legion. Many can also act as one. Think of the name "Satan" as a catch all for wicked actions or beings. Remember that the Savior called Peter "Satan" while he rebuked him. Not because Peter was wicked, but because he was having a conflict with the Savior. Thus, anyone in conflict with the Savior is Satan, and should correct themselves. On a more specific note, Lucifer is the defining character for the word "Satan" and is often the subject of the word. |
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servantofthelord
Truth Seeker
Come, Lord Jesus. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen.
Posts: 164
Favorite Verse: Anything from John
Favorite Song: Feelin Good!- Nina Simone
Favorite Animal: Blue, my mini schnauzer
Favorite Food: potatoes
Dream Vacation: To actually go on one, never been
Profession: Artist/Poet/Carpenter/Servant
Denomination: Servant of all
I'm From: All over
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Post by servantofthelord on Jul 20, 2021 20:19:39 GMT -6
It's good to keep in mind we are talking about satan here, who can be in one person or in many. He can do both, so having him described as an individual and a group in not inconsistent with other scripture. Even his minions can be one or more, remember Legion. Many can also act as one. Think of the name "Satan" as a catch all for wicked actions or beings. Remember that the Savior called Peter "Satan" while he rebuked him. Not because Peter was wicked, but because he was having a conflict with the Savior. Thus, anyone in conflict with the Savior is Satan, and should correct themselves. On a more specific note, Lucifer is the defining character for the word "Satan" and is often the subject of the word. Yes, that is the way I intended it to be meant. I couldn't decide on using the word evil or satan, evil is so vague, so I went with satan. |
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Post by boraddict on Jul 21, 2021 9:55:46 GMT -6
One thing worth note is that the mark of the beast is not about taking the mark but denying Christ; and they do this by worshiping the beast. It is a definite line of demarcation that is crossed. Some that cross this line may hope to recover and that may be the case on an individual basis. But for the majority, they openly worship the beast and condemn themselves by doing so.
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servantofthelord
Truth Seeker
Come, Lord Jesus. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen.
Posts: 164
Favorite Verse: Anything from John
Favorite Song: Feelin Good!- Nina Simone
Favorite Animal: Blue, my mini schnauzer
Favorite Food: potatoes
Dream Vacation: To actually go on one, never been
Profession: Artist/Poet/Carpenter/Servant
Denomination: Servant of all
I'm From: All over
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Post by servantofthelord on Jul 21, 2021 10:58:05 GMT -6
One thing worth note is that the mark of the beast is not about taking the mark but denying Christ; and they do this by worshiping the beast. It is a definite line of demarcation that is crossed. Some that cross this line may hope to recover and that may be the case on an individual basis. But for the majority, they openly worship the beast and condemn themselves by doing so. I agree to this, we are also said to receive God's mark, which is described in scripture as the Holy Spirit. So if God's mark cannot be "seen" in the normal understanding of the word, why should we insist that the beasts mark is, based soley on the hand and forehead statements, we are marked on the head too I believe. There could be a specific visual, but it isn't needed, if that makes sense. |
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Post by sog on Jul 21, 2021 10:58:36 GMT -6
I believe it's both. God has used the physical to represent the spiritual since the beginning. I don't believe that is going to stop at the end. Taking the mark means your worshiping the beast, thereby denying Christ, and I believe the mark will be given as a physical representation of it. Won't have one without the other.
Revelation 13:16-18
16 And he causes all, the small and the great, the rich and the poor, and the free and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 and he decrees that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.
and don't forget -
Revelation 14:9-11
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
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Post by uscgvet on Jul 21, 2021 11:32:55 GMT -6
One thing worth note is that the mark of the beast is not about taking the mark but denying Christ; and they do this by worshiping the beast. It is a definite line of demarcation that is crossed. Some that cross this line may hope to recover and that may be the case on an individual basis. But for the majority, they openly worship the beast and condemn themselves by doing so. I had a conversation with someone where the discussion ended with it being possible to take the mark but not worship the beast. I disagreed to the point he was making that it's likely going to be a requirement that you to visibly show your worship of the beast before they give you the mark. I can't prove it. But in theory, it would make since. |
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servantofthelord
Truth Seeker
Come, Lord Jesus. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen.
Posts: 164
Favorite Verse: Anything from John
Favorite Song: Feelin Good!- Nina Simone
Favorite Animal: Blue, my mini schnauzer
Favorite Food: potatoes
Dream Vacation: To actually go on one, never been
Profession: Artist/Poet/Carpenter/Servant
Denomination: Servant of all
I'm From: All over
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Post by servantofthelord on Jul 21, 2021 13:55:44 GMT -6
I've come to understand, for me, especially as it relates to Revelation and the end times, I hold very few absolutes of opinion. As the book is filled with both literal and figurative language as well as visual pictures. I do have some opinions, but they are dependent on my understanding, which grows as I seek.
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Post by boraddict on Jul 21, 2021 18:39:30 GMT -6
One thing worth note is that the mark of the beast is not about taking the mark but denying Christ; and they do this by worshiping the beast. It is a definite line of demarcation that is crossed. Some that cross this line may hope to recover and that may be the case on an individual basis. But for the majority, they openly worship the beast and condemn themselves by doing so. I had a conversation with someone where the discussion ended with it being possible to take the mark but not worship the beast. I disagreed to the point he was making that it's likely going to be a requirement that you to visibly show your worship of the beast before they give you the mark. I can't prove it. But in theory, it would make since. Think of murder for example. A group of people supporting the murder of a person are all guilty of murder. Likewise, a group of people supporting a government that murders Christians are murders. I think that is what the mark really represents. Because, the beast searches out Christians to kill them. Thus, taking the mark makes a person a murder. However, it is possible IMO to recover from that when a confession is made that the individual is Christian and rejects the mark. This of course would mean that they are killed by the beast. However, they are not condemned along with the beast and his followers; perhaps. It's like I have told my daughters; it is better to die than to be raped, and the same is true for the mark of the beast. It is better to die than take the mark of the beast. A mark that represents the murder of Christians. The Savior draws a hard line at murder. |
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