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Post by Natalie on Apr 23, 2021 9:26:01 GMT -6
In another thread, lionofgod made this statement: "since the KJV is the most widely accepted, and most other bibles are simply translated from it."
I thought it might be good to start a thread on Bible translations.
Not all Bible translations are created equal. I would say that most respected ones are done by committees. Different translations can also serve different purposes. A word for word translation is great for studying. Then there are ones that we might call phrase for phrase. These usually flow very well and make good reading Bibles. Then there are some that are paraphrases. These are the farthest from what the following article calls formal equivalence. I've heard at least one pastor refer to some of these as more like commentaries than translations.
Any way, how are Bibles translated?
Here's a brief article that gives a simple overview:
Their summary: Recently we had a missionary visit our church. She was getting ready to head to Africa where she will be part of a Bible translation team. I asked her how they translate the Bible into the native language there. She did not have to learn Hebrew and Greek. They use trusted English translations to put it in the native language (or translations that have been done by the translator organization she works for - I am unclear on that).
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Post by Natalie on Apr 23, 2021 11:26:20 GMT -6
I didn't real the whole article at that link. But found this relevant to the discussion. It says they were influenced by earlier English translations, like the KJV, but it says the translations come from the Greek and Hebrew
A long but interesting article that I skimmed and have marked to read thoroughly later:
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Post by boraddict on Apr 23, 2021 14:27:22 GMT -6
www.quora.com/How-many-different-septuagint-based-Bible-translations-are-there-Where-can-one-find-themBoris Zakharin, Software Engineer (2004-present) Answered 1 year ago Which is a better translation of the Hebrew Bible: the Vulgate or the Septuagint? Mr. Zakharin states the following: "This question only makes sense if you speak Greek (Septuagint) and Latin (Vulgate). If you’re asking about translations based on the Vulgate or Septuagint into some other language (English?), then in both cases, you’re looking at a translation of a translation. Because of that, neither is very faithful to the original Hebrew, and I would recommend a competent translation directly from Hebrew instead. The only time the Septuagint can be thought of as superior is when it deviates from the Masoretic text, on which all modern Hebrew Bibles are based, because the Septuagint predates the Masoretic text and could, theoretically, be more correct. However, one would have to be a scholar of both Greek and Hebrew to determine where real deviations, as opposed to simple mis-translations, occur. Having said all that, the Septuagint was translated by the Jews before Christianity was a thing, so there is no intentional or unintentional agenda behind the translation, just the Bible as understood by Jews of the time. The Vulgate was a Catholic translation, and was colored by the New Testament, and Catholic beliefs. I suppose, depending on your point of view, that may make either version better, depending on whether you’re looking for a Jewish or Christian understanding, and whether you consider the Catholic Church and their works Divinely inspired or not."
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Post by lionofgod on Apr 27, 2021 8:31:04 GMT -6
All modern bibles originate from the same already compiled texts that the previous ones did, therefore other than select word differences, they will be the same. Show me the bible where a person went back and reviewed all the scripts that were not put into the "original", dated and checked them all and then included the ones that all dated and had the same credentials/writers. Then you would actually have a verified and thoroughly vetted book of God's word. Organized religion cannot allow this to happen, for if the books taken out of the first "taught" compilation of writings of the old church were all included, then the Christian community of today would have to rethink some of its tenets. Jesus teachings were spiritual, not religious, which is why he took issue with religious leaders. Yet today we take all our cues from religion. LOL Ignoring fact has long been a hallmark of religions all through the ages, including Christianity. I simply choose not to ignore that fact as most want to. I want all to educate themselves, not blindly follow religions edicts. Follow Jesus and His teachings. Including the ones the Catholic church collected and tried to eradicate from existence. If they are untrue and don't follow Jesus, than the spirit will confirm such. The idea that a Christian is not trusted to use their own God given tools, or that the Holy spirit cannot determine truth id counter to Jesus teachings.
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Post by Natalie on Apr 27, 2021 8:35:27 GMT -6
You make broad statements. How do you know some on this board have not studied? Maybe we have but have come to a different conclusion than you.
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Post by mike on Apr 27, 2021 8:46:54 GMT -6
All modern bibles originate from the same already compiled texts that the previous ones did, therefore other than select word differences, they will be the same. Show me the bible where a person went back and reviewed all the scripts that were not put into the "original", dated and checked them all and then included the ones that all dated and had the same credentials/writers. Then you would actually have a verified and thoroughly vetted book of God's word. Organized religion cannot allow this to happen, for if the books taken out of the first "taught" compilation of writings of the old church were all included, then the Christian community of today would have to rethink some of its tenets. Jesus teachings were spiritual, not religious, which is why he took issue with religious leaders. Yet today we take all our cues from religion. LOL Ignoring fact has long been a hallmark of religions all through the ages, including Christianity. I simply choose not to ignore that fact as most want to. I want all to educate themselves, not blindly follow religions edicts. Follow Jesus and His teachings. Including the ones the Catholic church collected and tried to eradicate from existence. If they are untrue and don't follow Jesus, than the spirit will confirm such. The idea that a Christian is not trusted to use their own God given tools, or that the Holy spirit cannot determine truth id counter to Jesus teachings. As I understand Ezra did this. He had copies of the LAW and compiled and kept them...this article explains it too Just in a few days Natalie has given more than enough review of the bogus epistles you promote. You sir are on thin ice on Unsealed as a persistent violator of our rules but this is a forum that honors God's Word and therefore arguments against His Word aren't for this forum |
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Post by boymaker2 on Apr 27, 2021 13:37:03 GMT -6
All modern bibles originate from the same already compiled texts that the previous ones did, therefore other than select word differences, they will be the same. Show me the bible where a person went back and reviewed all the scripts that were not put into the "original", dated and checked them all and then included the ones that all dated and had the same credentials/writers. Then you would actually have a verified and thoroughly vetted book of God's word. Organized religion cannot allow this to happen, for if the books taken out of the first "taught" compilation of writings of the old church were all included, then the Christian community of today would have to rethink some of its tenets. Jesus teachings were spiritual, not religious, which is why he took issue with religious leaders. Yet today we take all our cues from religion. LOL Ignoring fact has long been a hallmark of religions all through the ages, including Christianity. I simply choose not to ignore that fact as most want to. I want all to educate themselves, not blindly follow religions edicts. Follow Jesus and His teachings. Including the ones the Catholic church collected and tried to eradicate from existence. If they are untrue and don't follow Jesus, than the spirit will confirm such. The idea that a Christian is not trusted to use their own God given tools, or that the Holy spirit cannot determine truth id counter to Jesus teachings. As I understand Ezra did this. He had copies of the LAW and compiled and kept them...this article explains it too Just in a few days Natalie has given more than enough review of the bogus epistles you promote. You sir are on thin ice on Unsealed as a persistent violator of our rules but this is a forum that honors God's Word and therefore arguments against His Word aren't for this forumI reregistered just to say that I am deeply moved and impressed by how you guys have interacted with LOG. I had a difficult time reading his writings because they seemed so disturbing. Then I recognized that by avoiding his posts, I was failing to contend for the faith. So, thanks for doing what I couldn't and I now recognize a weakness to address in myself. |
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Post by Natalie on Apr 27, 2021 14:06:30 GMT -6
Reading some of those extra biblical non-gospels was aweful. Especially the one attributed to Thaddeus. It is so anti-gospel, anti-Christ, anti- Scriptural. Straight up lies. I know others want to meet John or Peter, but I would like to get a chance to talk with the lesser known guys. And also the women who helped support His ministry. I have found that Unsealed has been a great place to build my confidence in defending the Faith. ( boymaker2, I am glad you are still around  ) |
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Post by stormyknight on Apr 27, 2021 14:08:35 GMT -6
As I understand Ezra did this. He had copies of the LAW and compiled and kept them...this article explains it too Just in a few days Natalie has given more than enough review of the bogus epistles you promote. You sir are on thin ice on Unsealed as a persistent violator of our rules but this is a forum that honors God's Word and therefore arguments against His Word aren't for this forumI reregistered just to say that I am deeply moved and impressed by how you guys have interacted with LOG. I had a difficult time reading his writings because they seemed so disturbing. Then I recognized that by avoiding his posts, I was failing to contend for the faith. So, thanks for doing what I couldn't and I now recognize a weakness to address in myself. Totally agree with you, boymaker2. I bowed out early because I recognized the situation required wiser minds than mine. I thank God for Natalie, boraddict, yardstick, mike, and Gary and everyone else who participated. This recent interaction is a true testament to the work of the Holy Spirit. |
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Post by boraddict on Apr 27, 2021 14:38:00 GMT -6
A few years ago while I was listening to late night talk radio, a man was promoting the Gospel According to Thomas. I listened to how Jesus went to Egypt as a baby etc. and then the speaker continued with several interesting details of the Savior's life, of which none were included in the Bible. As I considered these things I realized one important fact; that these stories do not contribute to the gospel message but do tend to undermine and take away one's testimony.
So what is the upside when someone reads these works; many of which are simply false. I mean, after all, it takes away quality time that could be used in exploring the standard works and therein lies the answer. These questionable and mostly false writings are a rabbit hole that Satan can use to divert someone's attention and destroy their testimony.
So what do we really have other than our belief in God but our testimony that we share with others. And if that testimony can be eroded by false writings then it is a win for Satan.
As far as the making of translations; it is beyond my skill level. I do know that the old Hebrew writings no longer exist and the Greek Septuagint is the oldest. There were Hebrew writings taken from the Septuagint in about 500 AD but I do not read either language so the old English is okay for me. Even the newer works like the NIV and so forth are very good IMO.
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Post by Natalie on Apr 27, 2021 14:52:54 GMT -6
stormyknight, I do appreciate your contribution to the discussion. If nothing else, it shows our unity in Christ and the Gospel.
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Post by stormyknight on Apr 27, 2021 15:01:06 GMT -6
Natalie, I thought it was ironic that in one of the other threads the subject of emotions came up, God's vs. Human, because just reading was making me angry!
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Post by lionofgod on Apr 28, 2021 8:43:06 GMT -6
Brothers and sisters, I was very specific in my wording and in my disclaimers. I DID NOT PROMOTE THE SITE. I specifically sited the Home page history. You seem intent on ignoring what ever words I actually used, so you may bash what you assume I mean. Though I'm flattered that it appears half the village is jumping on your bandwagon, as it at least shows your unity, it is all directed at things I didn't even say in this thread. Your assumptions are showing what assumptions show. You have decided I'm a heretic and anything I seem to say will be taken in the manner you choose, not the manner I write. Even on the threads that have been locked, I used the words of the bible, the same one we all read, but even on that thread, you attribute to me things I haven't said.
Per Mike- Maybe you ought to put away the extra biblical and stick to the bible to learn who Christ truly is
Funny thing, but both of the quotes and the quotes from the other thread, ARE from the bible you use, not some random book, but if you leave out the bias you have against me and just deal with the words I post from your/the bible, than an honest conversation must be had, which id what I wanted. Had I known that any words not in an echo chamber would be met with frustration, rejection and anger, simply because I had the nerve to point out the very words in the gospel and OT, I'd perhaps started by asking if anyone was willing to discuss biblical things without casting stones. You make this about false teachings, yet you refuse to use the huge forum you have to look in the mirror. I have yet to accuse anyone here of heresy, or of most any other thing besides lack of knowledge and blind faith in people you hav never met or studied. Which outside of religion, is called common sense. I'm not making 2+2=5, I'm actually showing you that it is really four always, you insist on applying math formulas until the sum equals what you think. Let your yes be yes and your no be no. It saddens me that you have such little compassion and understanding that you feel it needed to not allow any challenge to your bias, even from your own book. Rule 1 seems to apply anytime you wish it to, or anytime I even quote from the OT and NT. I'm not even inferring or divining or translating or even taking the wording in any other way than is plainly stated. It is not I that is saying a word means a different thing. The fact that I have spoken to several pastors and seminary graduates, and they have nearly all admitted right from the start that the bible does indeed have contradictions, but you insist on making me the ignorant heretic, for pointing out what is taught to your teachers. As to the OT vs NT topic, what do you normally do when you get a new thing? By your examples here one would rightly assume that you keep the old thing and use it to combine with the old. You contradict yourselves while claiming no contradiction in terms. It's a cool self fulfilling kinds thought, but it just goes in circles, since you can't allow any new information in to consider without breaking the circle. It was my sincerest hope, that we may enlighten each other in the words of Jesus, but it seems apparent that you are all experts in enlightenment and there is no knowledge of scripture you don't already have. Or if there is, it is already deemed not needed. I don't put limits on Jesus. I just listen and pay attention to him. The fact that I do all this with a smile and a happy heart, while you are frustrated, irritated and waiting to pounce, says more about your inner peace than mine. I have a heart full of love and never a bad day, you seem frustrated and out of harmony with your Holy Spirit. While I am waiting for rebirth, it sounds as though your trying to determine when you will die. I just don't get how even obeying the rules is not enough. If you wanted a room full of people that just mimic you and confirm what you already think you know, how do you grow? How does your spirit achieve spiritual things if you tether it to the earthly things?
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Post by Natalie on Apr 28, 2021 8:56:18 GMT -6
lionofgod , I've said this before - you have not been here long enough to be able to judge the people here. We do not all agree on everything. That makes for some very interesting discussions. But we do agree on who Jesus is and what the Gospel is. That is what unites us. And because we are committed to standing for God's truth, then yes, we must point out false teaching least someone be led astray. You still have not answered my question about who Jesus is and what the Gospel is. Or other questions asked of you. This is after all a discussion forum. But posting that site and claiming they have researched the truth, it sure seemed like you were promoting that site. No one has called you a heretic. We have simply pointed out the errors in the extra "gospels" and your theology. It seems you have found those who are agree with you (pastors and seminary professors), but we don't. And not all pastors will agree with you. In these days, you can find "Christians" that believe any number of things and they aren't necessarily true. I have not seen people reacting to you in frustration and anger. I'm glad your heart is full of love and you never have a bad day. I just hope that when a bad day comes you are following the true Jesus. Because He said in this world you will have troubles. John 16:33
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Post by mike on Apr 28, 2021 10:17:02 GMT -6
lionofgod , To my knowledge no one has said we wouldnt or cant discuss things that appear to be contradictory. In fact we should talk through them. Many times I have encountered things that appear contradictory but found that it was me that was lacking. Is it possible that the people you have spoken with also lack understanding? (<-rhetorical) For anyone to think they have mastered the biblical text is presumptive. We can and do know certain things, however when hard to understand sayings or contradictions are encountered it means "Study more" or "Dig deeper for truth"... If you were legitimately serious about having discussions with people on this site, you would take an approach with humility. At least in my experience this is what I have seen with people who are honest about seeking the truth. However in nearly each post youve made, you fill them with generalities and accusation and do not get to the meat of the contradiction but have a preconceived notion of what the answer already is in your mind = strawman. The heresy is attacking the bible on a site that has a rule to discuss things in light of Gods word, then you apply things from proven false texts, to support your stance and claim that they are true. You dont find any irony in that? (This is a rhetorical question). This is partially true. We are not experts and no one claims to be, however the scripture we have is what we accept. You are well aware of this now and cant seem to keep the conversation of documents widely rejected to its own discussion. I was fine discussing extra biblical texts in light of scripture, howveer you seem to flip this in each post. You want to prove extra biblical text as truth and biblical text as false or contradictory. This is not what this promotes, nor should you as a follower of Christ. We have provided ample opportunity to discuss these things as well as plenty of support to show that the texts you cite as truth are in fact partially true at best. Your agenda is complete and youve made your point, now its time to move on and promote false teaching elsewhere.
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