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Post by uscgvet on Apr 17, 2021 7:27:43 GMT -6
Jeremiah 4 & 6 = 1 Thess 4,5 -- & -- 2 Thess 2
They are the same event. Same wording is used for both for many verses throughout both.
The O.T. is how we understand what's about to happen in the very near future. Luke 24:44-45.
Jeremiah 6:1 "gathering together"
2 Thessalonians 2:1 "gathering together"
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Jeremiah 6:1 "blow the trumpet"
1 Thessalonians 4:16 "the trump of God"
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Jeremiah 6:1 "out of the midst"
2 Thessalonians 2:7 "be taken out of the way" (Dr. Ken Johnson said this is also "taken out of the midst" about 2 Thess 2:7 in one of his videos on Youtube about Rapture)
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1 Thessalonians 5
3 When people say, “There is peace and security,” destruction will strike them as suddenly as labor pains come to a pregnant woman, and they will not be able to escape.
Jeremiah 6
14 They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.
Jeremiah 6
24 We have heard the fame thereof: our hands wax feeble: anguish hath taken hold of us, and pain, as of a woman in travail.
Jeremiah 6
29 The bellows are burned, the lead is consumed of the fire; the founder melteth in vain: for the wicked are not plucked away.
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Jeremiah 6:26 "for the spoiler shall suddenly come upon us."
1 Thessalonians 5:3 "then sudden destruction cometh upon them"
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Edit:
Jeremiah 6
4 Prepare ye war against her; arise, and let us go up at noon. Woe unto us! for the day goeth away, for the shadows of the evening are stretched out.
5 Arise, and let us go by night, and let us destroy her palaces.
1 Thessalonians 5
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
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Edit: I added Jeremiah 4 to the linkage due to Irenaeus mentioning Dan, which is also mentioned in Jeremiah 4.
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Psalm 149
4 For the Lord taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation.
5 Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds.
6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand;
7 To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people;
8 To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron;
9 To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the Lord.
Prepare for battle brothers and sisters in Christ!!!
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Post by Natalie on Apr 17, 2021 13:20:10 GMT -6
I am currently reading a book called Reading Moses, Seeing Jesus (by the people at One for Israel). The authors talk about a phrase that translates as "deeds of the fathers as a sign to the sons". As I understand it, it's not that the things written were for a warning for future generations, but that what was written about the "fathers" was a prophecy of what would happen to "the sons." For example, Adam and Eve were placed in a land that God created for them, were given commandments that led to life or death, they disobeyed, and were exiled from the land. The same would happen to Israel. With this in mind, it is easy to picture what happened in Israel's past (Jeremiah) could then be repeated in Israel's future.
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Post by uscgvet on Apr 17, 2021 13:30:51 GMT -6
I am currently reading a book called Reading Moses, Seeing Jesus (by the people at One for Israel). The authors talk about a phrase that translates as "deeds of the fathers as a sign to the sons". As I understand it, it's not that the things written were for a warning for future generations, but that what was written about the "fathers" was a prophecy of what would happen to "the sons." For example, Adam and Eve were placed in a land that God created for them, were given commandments that led to life or death, they disobeyed, and were exiled from the land. The same would happen to Israel. With this in mind, it is easy to picture what happened in Israel's past (Jeremiah) could then be repeated in Israel's future. I agree with your assessment, but I'll take it a step further. I think Paul was quoting Jer 6 in his letters to the Thessalonians as what we should be using to know what's going to happen. |
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Post by uscgvet on May 11, 2021 7:30:32 GMT -6
Looks like Irenaeus of Lyons (175-185 A.D.), Against Heresies, Book 5, Chapter XXX part 2 is also talking about Jeremiah 4 - 8.
"This, too, the apostle affirms: "When they shall say, Peace and safety, then sudden destruction shall come upon them." And Jeremiah does not merely point out his sudden coming, but he even indicates the tribe from which he shall come, where he says, "We shall hear the voice of his swift horses from Dan; the whole earth shall be moved by the voice of the neighing of his galloping horses: he shall also come and devour the earth, and the fulness thereof, the city also, and they that dwell therein." This, too, is the reason that this tribe is not reckoned in the Apocalypse along with those which are saved."
It must be Jeremiah 6. And Irenaeus's reference to Dan is Jeremiah 8:16 which is a continuation of Jeremiah 6...
But don't forget about Jeremiah 4:15
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Post by uscgvet on May 19, 2021 11:54:53 GMT -6
Found the video
"out of the midst"
Dr. Ken Johnson the restrainer
Jeremiah 6:1 "out of the midst"
2 Thessalonians 2:7 "be taken out of the way" KJV but (Dr. Ken Johnson said this is also "taken out of the midst" about 2 Thess 2:7 in one of his videos on Youtube about Rapture)
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Post by uscgvet on May 22, 2021 20:19:53 GMT -6
I am fairly certain that the "lie" in
This "lie" is actually from Jeremiah 4:10 (Paul seeming reading from Jeremiah for these 2 letters to the Thessalonians).
The lie itself is "Peace"... when actually, war...sudden destruction ... from "the Assyrian" from "Dan" (Jeremiah 4:15), the rider of the white horse of Revelation 6:2 is bringing war to plunder as judgement from God (Isaiah 10:5-11).
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Post by uscgvet on May 23, 2021 6:59:38 GMT -6
Jaco from YT Channel"God's roadmap to the end" just linked Jeremiah 6 with 1 Thess 5.
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Post by uscgvet on May 24, 2021 19:34:55 GMT -6
I just had an interesting thought as to why Paul was quoting from Jeremiah 6...
Paul is from the tribe of Benjamin.
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Post by uscgvet on May 25, 2021 6:16:56 GMT -6
Continuing with Jeremiah 6 link to 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7 ... "the restrainer" is likely the Holy Spirit.
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Post by mike on May 25, 2021 9:57:45 GMT -6
Continuing with Jeremiah 6 link to 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7 ... " the restrainer" is likely the Holy Spirit. I currently hold a differing view on the resurrection regarding 2Thes 2:6-7 then many do. Most (especially in the pre-Trib rapture view) see this as the Holy Spirit being removed due to the church being whisked away, while in other non pre-trib views see the restrainer is viewed as Michael or the Holy Spirit. The rendering of the verse in most translations seems to be a little "off" when considering he be taken. the LSV renders it The verb in the text the word for he be taken is ginomai: For consideration, (in the view I hold which is very close to pre-wrath) the text may read more precisely when utilizing ginomai as: |
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Post by Natalie on May 25, 2021 10:17:28 GMT -6
I don't see the Holy Spirit being removed from the earth at the rapture, but it being more of a stepping back and letting wickedness run loose. That makes sense to me also with what you just posted, Mike. He's changing His position from restraining to not restraining.
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Post by uscgvet on May 25, 2021 11:40:25 GMT -6
Continuing with Jeremiah 6 link to 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7 ... " the restrainer" is likely the Holy Spirit. I currently hold a differing view on the resurrection regarding 2Thes 2:6-7 then many do. Most (especially in the pre-Trib rapture view) see this as the Holy Spirit being removed due to the church being whisked away, while in other non pre-trib views see the restrainer is viewed as Michael or the Holy Spirit. The rendering of the verse in most translations seems to be a little "off" when considering he be taken. the LSV renders it The verb in the text the word for he be taken is ginomai: For consideration, (in the view I hold which is very close to pre-wrath) the text may read more precisely when utilizing ginomai as: I don't discount pre-wrath. I actually hold both pre-trib (pre-1st seal) and pre-wrath (pre-6th seal?) views at the same time. Psalm 18:16 is a blatantly obvious pre-wrath "gathering together". Jeremiah 6:1-2 is a blatantly obvious pre-1st seal "gathering together". I am completely convinced that Irenaeus was correct in saying that Paul was summarizing Jeremiah in Paul's letters to the Thessalonians. There are way too many links between the two to be just a statistical anomaly. |
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Post by uscgvet on May 25, 2021 11:43:09 GMT -6
I don't see the Holy Spirit being removed from the earth at the rapture, but it being more of a stepping back and letting wickedness run loose. That makes sense to me also with what you just posted, Mike. He's changing His position from restraining to not restraining. I find it difficult to argue against Jeremiah: Jeremiah 6:8 Be thou instructed, O Jerusalem, lest my soul depart from thee; lest I make thee desolate, a land not inhabited. The fact that God is going to make Jerusalem a desolate land makes it logical to assume that God's soul will also depart "thee"... Jerusalem. |
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Post by uscgvet on May 25, 2021 11:53:46 GMT -6
Paul and Jesus didn't just come up with this stuff on their own. It all came from the OT.
Jesus was sent to the lost tribes of the House of Israel.
I find it interesting that Jeremiah 6 is addressed to the children of Benjamin (ie. Paul) and not Israel as a whole.
Paul was sent to the Gentiles. The Holy Spirit guided Paul to this chapter to direct our attention to it as in regards to the Rapture.
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Post by uscgvet on May 29, 2021 9:33:53 GMT -6
Continuing with Jeremiah 6 link to 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7 ... " the restrainer" is likely the Holy Spirit. I currently hold a differing view on the resurrection regarding 2Thes 2:6-7 then many do. Most (especially in the pre-Trib rapture view) see this as the Holy Spirit being removed due to the church being whisked away, while in other non pre-trib views see the restrainer is viewed as Michael or the Holy Spirit. The rendering of the verse in most translations seems to be a little "off" when considering he be taken. the LSV renders it The verb in the text the word for he be taken is ginomai: For consideration, (in the view I hold which is very close to pre-wrath) the text may read more precisely when utilizing ginomai as: Here is another passage of why I suspect 2 Raptures (Pre-Trib and Pre-Wrath) 2 Samuel 2 2 So David went up thither, and his two wives also, Ahinoam the Jezreelitess, and Abigail Nabal's wife the Carmelite. Rapture 1 (with Households/families - Jeremiah 3:14) [Jeremiah 6 - children of Benjamin]: 3 And his men that were with him did David bring up, every man with his household: and they dwelt in the cities of Hebron. Rapture 2 [Psalm 18]: 4 And the men of Judah came, and there they anointed David king over the house of Judah. And they told David, saying, That the men of Jabeshgilead were they that buried Saul. |
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