Birth Pangs Intervals

Quick question here Servant - does this thought include that the birth pangs lead to a pre-Trib rapture? Reason I ask is other views will know when the AC is revealed and utilize that as the count.

EDIT - I think the ladies who have endured child birth can relate to this question much better than I or the brothers can 

Mike: Yes, that is good question as it concerns the pre-Trib Rapture. Totally agree with you on the ladies.

Natalie: Yes, we could include the periods of quietness and chaotic times such as Capitol riot and others.

Venge: It depends on what most believers agree on. If agreed on birth pangs throughout history then shorten it to few years instead of centuries or millenniums. It makes easier to track, however if they insist otherwise, then it's fine either way.

I would refer to Gary's posts as they explained birth pangs better than me.

Thanks for asking.

Venge: Matthew 24. 'All these are the beginning of birth pains'. Seems it last over thousands of years. It might be daunting to construct a model based on the timeline lasting thousands of years. A shorter timeline might benefit as we don't have much time on Earth.

1 John 4. No fear, I don't follow anyone without checking the Bible. The Holy Ghost guide me to the Truth.

Thank you for your concerns.

Servant ,mike ,

I wanted to add, as I continue to read up on the "birth pangs/pains", that Jeremiah 6 offers some good insight into it.  The Israelites were accustomed to war around them, earthquakes, famines in the land and of course diseases as some of their own people were afflicted and the law taught them how to deal with these infirmities. In Jeremiah 6, the Lord describes their wickedness and how they say Peace, Peace in Jeremiah 6:14 when there is no peace (Similar to saying Peace and safety then sudden destruction) and in that want for peace comes only destruction by the hands of an invading army. 

The birth pains that come suddenly in this scenario involve the Chaldeans attacking Jerusalem. It is sudden, and does not involve years, hundreds of years or thousands of years. The travail they experience is fear and anxiety for what is about to happen. That doesnt fit in how we live today. The passage also explains that a war is about to cover them, destroy their world as they know it. It appears that all 4 judgments of God are used to bring birth pangs into usage. Surely, we have war, famine, pestilence and wild beast nations in the world today and in every facet of time. But God speaks about a time when he sends all 4 to a nation at once. Those in war had all of this happen. Those inside the walls of a city fell to pestilence. Those outside the wall fell to the sword. Those also inside the city fell to famine for lack of food to bring into the camp when it was being sieged for months or even 1-2 years. And in the end, the wild beast would devour this people and subjugate them to their own city, ways of life etc.

We understand WW 1 and 2. And I think these are examples. If by chance there is a war in this country and others, and a foreign power was able to attack them, dismantling them and cut off multiple nation trade routes, supplies etc..causing famine, disease, war...and in the end America and some other nations were removed from their lofty place in prosperity, would the people of those nations that experienced all that calamity and miserableness be in a birth pang? Whose enemy was like unto a leopard with great speed in take over? Surely, like unto a leopard denotes the great speed Alexander used to overcome his enemies and can be considered sudden, unexpected birth pains of those nations that none escaped.

EDIT:

A little more...

Paul reasoned that he was in birth pains in Galatians 4

The Galatians being lead away from the Lord, who Paul had taught them in truth. So it is a struggle for those, that win others to Christ, to win them back a second time as they relapse back into the world. It is as if they go through birth pains themselves. A very interesting analogy by Paul. Though I dont think it applies to prophecy yet, I wanted to add it because it has value and may be overlooked in such regard.

Do birth pains of war/famine/disease lead those in faith back to the world from the truth they enjoyed with Christ? I think it could. Look at Luke 21:34

Birth pains could cause people to lean back to the flesh.  We are forewarned in Revelation about the "patience and faith of the saints", the warning to "come out of her my people" and in Matthew 24:49 the one who "beat his fellow servants and eats with the drunken". We have the example of Lot's wife looking back to her life in wicked Sodom as the Lord was sending sudden destruction upon the cities of the plain.  We have the example of Job as he lost his food, children and livelihood. After those trying times, he received a hundred fold back in return.

Servant

Most of the Bible’s birth pains happen to the people right before the enemy destroys them. Not a consecutive pain over 2k years.

The Bible gives plenty of support for this. So, although birth pains can happen in history, Christ referenced a specific time with birth pains that none escape. He links it to the time of his advent, false Christ’s etc

If the AoD is set up and Jerusalem is surrounded by armies, the desolations that are near are birth pains for the people. It is identical throughout history. Earthquakes can cause desolations, disease can, war can. All cause trembling and fear: birth pains. But we are taught about a specific birth pain. Not WW2 birth pain

Servant ,mike ,Natalie ,venge ,

Hello all ,

Just thinking on this idea of birth pains, as someone who has given birth to three children, I can testify to the pain involved. Not all births are equally painful and some occur quicker than others.

My first two were born relatively quickly, within three hours of the first contractions, the initial pains were not so bad, but intensified as the birth grew imminent. With each successive contraction the pain grew worse and less tolerable. The birth itself was a different kind of pain, bearing down actually worked with the pain to deliver my children, that pain was actually easier to bear than what led up to the actual birth. I realize all women are different and births can very greatly, my thirdborn for instance was a 12 hour labor of love. 

One thing I like to remind myself of, is that this is an analogy, and shouldn't be applied too literally. The birth pains listed in Matthew 24,  won't, for instance, occur within an actual 24 hour period of time. We know that all the things listed in Matthew 24:5-7 have occured throughout history- false Christ's misleading many, wars and rumors of wars, nation against nation, kingdoms against kingdoms, famines and earthquakes. These are said to be just the beginning of birthpains. Just the start of the process that will lead to the "birth". Like any birth the contractions (pains) grow stronger and closer together and more painful leading up to the birth. Matthew's audience would have understood that the analogy was making that point, that the described effects would start smaller and grow in intensity until the birth.

The passage goes on to describe other aspects of the pains that would be added as the labor progresses Matt 24: 9-14. Believers delivered to tribulation, martyrdom, many will fall away and betray and hate one another, false prophets will arise and mislead many, an increase in lawlessness, loss of love (but the one who endures to the end will be saved) the gospel will be preached in the whole world and then the end shall come.

What is the end? The end of the birthing process, the most intense birth pains- which in the passage would correlate to the AOD, followed immediately by the great tribulation (Matt 24: 14-28)

What is it that is born? The kingdom, Christ's return to earth (Matt 24:29,30) After the tribulation or birth pains, right? The pain gives birth to the kindom of Christ appearing on earth.


Mapping this out in a chart would be a very time consuming effort. To take all the wars, famines, earthquakes etc... since the birth of Christ?? More work than I want to invest myself in.

I do find it interesting that verse 13 is inserted where it is, apparently before the Abomination of Desolation. Those who endure through the beginning and initial strengthening of the birth pains will be saved, before the most intense part of the birthing process takes place, hmmm... Could this alude to the rapture perhaps?

Most of you all know that I ascribe to a pre trib rapture theory and that I see the first 4 seals which correlate to some of these signs in Matthew as having already been removed by Christ after He entered heaven to be seated on His throne. The removal of the fifth and sixth seals in my opinion, correlate to vs 13 in this passage or the rapture. The opening of the scroll is in fact the 70th week, with that first half hour (about) being the first half of the week and the second half being the great tribulation with the AOD the midpoint. 

What we have in Matthew 24 is the beginning, middle and end of a labor process. The events that will intensify on earth leading up to the Lord's return.

That's my take.