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Post by skyletters on Jan 22, 2021 12:45:10 GMT -6
I watched “A Distant Thunder” last night, and it got me thinking about the Tim LaHaye “Left Behind” series and how the rapture is portrayed in large media productions like the Nicholas Cage version of the series. If the pre tribulation view of scripture is correct, would it be portrayed in big Hollywood productions? Seems like if Hollywood promotes something it is usually false and a twist of God’s word. I also have Christian friends on social media that have been posting a lot (like the article below) about how they came out of the premillennial and pre-trib beliefs and are now post/amillennial. I always try to approach life knowing I could be wrong about anything, I’m just having a hard time sorting through the noise right now. I’ve done so much research into the pre/mid/post rapture that I decided pre made the most sense. But I admit that most of the research I did was studying what other people said about it, not by reading the Bible in its entirety to decide what it actually said on the matter (although I did do some of that, just not as much as I should have). thechristianlife.com/how-jesus-fulfilled-the-70-week-prophecy/I feel like I’m losing my confidence! Anyone have any thoughts? |
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Post by mike on Jan 22, 2021 13:08:19 GMT -6
Greetings skyletters The first thing I would say about being amil is if this is the millennium, where is the Lord and that if Satan is locked up we're in big trouble when he is loosed. Thats a very simple view in my opinion to cut through the noise. Regarding pre/mid/post - we have quite the dialogue here on the topic. A recent one can be found posed as a question to post tribbers. I am convinced (as are most here on the site) the resurrection of the dead & rapture happen after the 6th seal. When is the 6th seal is a topic of some debate. My personal stance is as follows: - If the rapture is pre-trib - Great! We escape persecution of the anti-Christ
- If the rapture is mid-trib - Not as great but if it occurs when the Abomination of Desolation occurs, we'll see it and be swept out quickly.
- If the rapture is pre-wrath - Again not as great as the previous two but again we are truly spared from Gods wrath, but will have to suffer persecution & martyrdom (this is close to my view)
- If the rapture is post-trib - We endure to the end and if not we are raised.
I hold the pre-wrath(ish) view at the moment. My mentality is to expect persecution, ask our brethren in China, Iran, Africa or North Korea. They would certainly say that there is extreme persecution before the rapture. But there has been for 2000 years, we have been blessed to not experience it to the degree of others! If God takes us before the Trib or before the anti christ is revealed, what have lost by thinking otherwise. My flip side to that is if Im expecting to whisked away then eventually see the abomination, what will my thinking be at that time (rhetorical).
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Post by boraddict on Jan 24, 2021 1:55:39 GMT -6
skyletters , while the prize is a long time coming, it is well worth the wait. I am convinced that we are at Rev. 12:5 as well as Rev. 6:5 with the previous verses (vv. 1-4) of those two chapters having already transpired. It is my opinion that Chapters 6 and 12 are sister chapters that work together in describing the very beginnings of the tribulation. Also, Chapter 12 shows that the rapture (Rev. 12:6, 14) is next; however, Rev. 12:7-13 appear to precede that rapture event. With this in mind then it is my opinion that Rev. 6:6, 14 are the corresponding rapture verses in Chapter 6 with Rev. 6:7-13 as the preceding verses to that rapture event. That being said, then the great war that characteristically marks the beginning of the tribulation era is Rev. 6:7-13 and Rev. 12:7-13, and it is right around the corner. From the beginning of that marker then the rapture follows that to me is an exodus of some sort while the world is in that war. The gathering of that exodus may last the entire 3.5 years; the time that the first beast rules the world. Then as the 1st beast falls and the second beast takes the mantle of authority on behalf of the 1st beast (Chapter 13), the saints are fully authorized to represent the Father (Chapter 7); that is my best guess. From there the other chapters fall in line with Chapters 8-9 corresponding to Chapters 14-16, and Chapters 10-11 and 17-19 overlaid upon the previous chapters. Nevertheless, that pre-trib rapture if you are correct is so very close; but the war must start first. That is, the pre-trib rapture is cloaked within the beginning of that war as shown in Chapters 6 & 12. The emphasis is upon the war as the center of the chapter with the rapture as secondary (although stated twice). There are so many possibilities to these verses that we do not know the exact interpretation until the events have transpired. v. 12:6, rapture (v. 6:6) vv. 12:7-13, war (vv. 6:7-13)
v. 12:14, rapture (v. 6:14) We are almost there! Stay close to the Savior.
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Post by venge on Jan 24, 2021 12:10:14 GMT -6
I watched “A Distant Thunder” last night, and it got me thinking about the Tim LaHaye “Left Behind” series and how the rapture is portrayed in large media productions like the Nicholas Cage version of the series. If the pre tribulation view of scripture is correct, would it be portrayed in big Hollywood productions? Seems like if Hollywood promotes something it is usually false and a twist of God’s word. I also have Christian friends on social media that have been posting a lot (like the article below) about how they came out of the premillennial and pre-trib beliefs and are now post/amillennial. I always try to approach life knowing I could be wrong about anything, I’m just having a hard time sorting through the noise right now. I’ve done so much research into the pre/mid/post rapture that I decided pre made the most sense. But I admit that most of the research I did was studying what other people said about it, not by reading the Bible in its entirety to decide what it actually said on the matter (although I did do some of that, just not as much as I should have). thechristianlife.com/how-jesus-fulfilled-the-70-week-prophecy/I feel like I’m losing my confidence! Anyone have any thoughts? Hello skyletters, Odd, I just saw your post today. I have seen that same trilogy. The first was "A thief in the Night", A distant thunder" and "mark of the beast". I first saw them was I was a teenager and they really pushed me father into prophecy. With that said, today and this is just my opinion, I am not a fan of Tim LaHaye at all! I have to agree with mike, the amillennial view has a problem. If this is the millennial kingdom, where is Christ? Where/When was the resurrection? Where is the peace when we have rampant sin in the world? How is it he reigns over all the Kingdoms of the earth if so many sin against him/and do not know him. When did the bowl judgments happen? It doesnt make any sense from a literal, figurative or even symbolic interpretation IMHO. Stick to the Bible as the primary source. Cant go wrong with that. Let the HS speak to you. Remove all preconceived notions. Dont lose confidence. The Bible takes more then a lifetime to understand. And you must want to read it. You need a thirst to read it. I know Christians who dont even know if they are Pre-Tb or something else. They dont understand the title and what it references. Sadly, It is not always taught in every Church. Some of these theories also have to do with how someone interprets scripture in other ways. I'm talking about classic dispensationalism versus, covenant theory versus, progressive dispensationalism. These ideas could explain why people read prophetic text in certain ways versus some others. Lastly, I have seen so many sites that say "25 proofs this theory is correct" and you can add whatever theory you want in that bracket. So many are flawed and/or regurgitated from other sites. Someone unknowing will go and read that site and think "Ahh see , this is right"...and it isnt. You will only be able to counter subtle mistakes if you know the text yourself from constant study. I think its wonderful you are on this journey to understand prophecy and that it is good you are open to views while you seek truth. We have Pre-TB, Pre-Wrath and Post-Tb's in this forum. If you have questions, ask em.  |
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Post by boraddict on Jan 24, 2021 14:43:21 GMT -6
venge, mike, are you using pre-wrath as a mid-point reference? Because, if you are then the Wrath of God is in the last 3.5 years and I agree with that line of thinking. This seems to indicate that the rapture event is not necessarily occurring at a specific point in time but between two points as shown in Rev. 12. And, by the way, I just noticed this supporting evidence to the pre-wrath not being a specific point in time when in my previous post I listed the following: Rev. 12:6, rapture Rev. 12:7-13, war
Rev. 12:14, rapture Since the beginning of the rapture corresponds to the beginning of the war and that time period is 3.5 years (v. 12:6) then the ending of that rapture is at Verse 12:14 and 3.5 years remain for the Wrath of God era. In fact, Rev. 6:17 supports this because the Wrath of God begins after the events of that chapter have transpired. So likewise, the Wrath of God would begin after the ending of Chapter 12. Further, Chapters 7 and 13 are both in retrospect to the latter parts of their previous chapters. Please notice that at Chapters 8 and 14 the saints are with God; they have been gathered via the rapture of the previous 3.5 years (pre-wrath). Am I describing the pre-wrath correctly?
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Post by mike on Jan 25, 2021 8:08:28 GMT -6
venge , mike , are you using pre-wrath as a mid-point reference? Sort of Because, if you are then the Wrath of God is in the last 3.5 years and I agree with that line of thinking. My current stance is that wrath occurs during the last 3.5 but not for all of it. This seems to indicate that the rapture event is not necessarily occurring at a specific point in time but between two points as shown in Rev. 12. Between two points but before His wrath And, by the way, I just noticed this supporting evidence to the pre-wrath not being a specific point in time when in my previous post I listed the following: Rev. 12:6, rapture Rev. 12:7-13, war
Rev. 12:14, rapture Since the beginning of the rapture corresponds to the beginning of the war and that time period is 3.5 years (v. 12:6) then the ending of that rapture is at Verse 12:14 and 3.5 years remain for the Wrath of God era. In fact, Rev. 6:17 supports this because the Wrath of God begins after the events of that chapter have transpired. So likewise, the Wrath of God would begin after the ending of Chapter 12. Further, Chapters 7 and 13 are both in retrospect to the latter parts of their previous chapters. Please notice that at Chapters 8 and 14 the saints are with God; they have been gathered via the rapture of the previous 3.5 years (pre-wrath). Am I describing the pre-wrath correctly? Currently I dont see the rapture happening "half way through" at the 3.5 time frame. I think its further along in the process, after the Abomination. Gods wrath occurs after the 6th seal Rev 6:12 When he opened the sixth seal...17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” everything encompassed in the first 5 seals is pre-wrath. Venge can probably explain this in better detail |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 8:29:54 GMT -6
I DETECT NO PEP IN THIS TALK.
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Post by mike on Jan 25, 2021 10:43:15 GMT -6
I DETECT NO PEP IN THIS TALK. Boymaker - My comments are directed to the OP, who has watched a hollywood version of end times, to which I do not see in the bible. I also do not see amillennialism in the bible as some others do. Since the OP mentions it I added comments regarding it. what are you expecting here, in the thread? Why are you yelling (THE USE OF ALL CAPS IS CONSIDERED YELLING IN CASE YOU WERENT AWARE)? If you have something to "pep" please add to the dialogue. After much careful study for the last 2+ years, I am one who does not believe the pre-Trib theory any longer, therefore have added other items to consider, especially in light of the Amil position mentioned. We do need to encourage one another as we see the day approaching. My intent is to do so, but in terms of what I (and others) see. If the OP wants the thread to be discussing exclusively the theory of pre-trib, that can happen I will bow out of it entirely. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 10:51:54 GMT -6
I DETECT NO PEP IN THIS TALK. Boymaker - My comments are directed to the OP, who has watched a hollywood version of end times, to which I do not see in the bible. I also do not see amillennialism in the bible as some others do. Since the OP mentions it I added comments regarding it. what are you expecting here, in the thread? Why are you yelling (THE USE OF ALL CAPS IS CONSIDERED YELLING IN CASE YOU WERENT AWARE)? If you have something to "pep" please add to the dialogue. After much careful study for the last 2+ years, I am one who does not believe the pre-Trib theory any longer, therefore have added other items to consider, especially in light of the Amil position mentioned. We do need to encourage one another as we see the day approaching. My intent is to do so, but in terms of what I (and others) see. If the OP wants the thread to be discussing exclusively the theory of pre-trib, that can happen I will bow out of it entirely. I was joking. That's why I played with the word pep. |
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Post by mike on Jan 25, 2021 10:53:07 GMT -6
Sorry - didnt take it as a joke/'hear' the humor in the post boymaker |
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Post by mike on Jan 25, 2021 11:35:08 GMT -6
Sorry - didnt take it as a joke/'hear' the humor in the post boymakerBoymaker deleted her account |
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Post by boraddict on Jan 25, 2021 21:29:12 GMT -6
boymaker, please do not take it that way. I thought about sending you a message earlier today but I did not have time until now and you are gone.
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Post by skyletters on Jan 26, 2021 19:36:58 GMT -6
venge , boraddict , mike , thank you all for your thoughtful responses. I appreciate everyone taking the time to discuss some of these things. Amillennialism definitely seems to bend and skew God’s word in ways that doesn’t make sense. From examples throughout scripture we know that God does not judge the righteous with the unrighteousness. I also recently watched “Before the Wrath” and would highly recommend it. It does a great job of describing the Jewish wedding customs of the day and applies them to the pre-trib rapture. The bride was taken with the groom and “hidden” away in the place the groom prepared for her for 7 days, and after that they had the wedding feast with the invited guests.
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Post by venge on Jan 27, 2021 15:11:47 GMT -6
venge , boraddict , mike , thank you all for your thoughtful responses. I appreciate everyone taking the time to discuss some of these things. Amillennialism definitely seems to bend and skew God’s word in ways that doesn’t make sense. From examples throughout scripture we know that God does not judge the righteous with the unrighteousness. I also recently watched “Before the Wrath” and would highly recommend it. It does a great job of describing the Jewish wedding customs of the day and applies them to the pre-trib rapture. The bride was taken with the groom and “hidden” away in the place the groom prepared for her for 7 days, and after that they had the wedding feast with the invited guests. Though Jesus uses a wedding motif to demonstrate the spiritual bond between himself and the church, we must be cautious not to add things into biblical script such as man’s ideas: Jewish weddings. Everything we need is in the Bible. If it’s not there, it doesn’t supersede or have equal value. When viewing a wedding, let us view it from God’s eyes (if possible; through his word) and not man’s traditions. EDIT: I should have asked...are gentile believers going to a Jewish Wedding? I'd say no. |
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Post by venge on Jan 27, 2021 15:34:13 GMT -6
venge, mike, are you using pre-wrath as a mid-point reference? Because, if you are then the Wrath of God is in the last 3.5 years and I agree with that line of thinking. This seems to indicate that the rapture event is not necessarily occurring at a specific point in time but between two points as shown in Rev. 12. And, by the way, I just noticed this supporting evidence to the pre-wrath not being a specific point in time when in my previous post I listed the following: Rev. 12:6, rapture Rev. 12:7-13, war
Rev. 12:14, rapture Since the beginning of the rapture corresponds to the beginning of the war and that time period is 3.5 years (v. 12:6) then the ending of that rapture is at Verse 12:14 and 3.5 years remain for the Wrath of God era. In fact, Rev. 6:17 supports this because the Wrath of God begins after the events of that chapter have transpired. So likewise, the Wrath of God would begin after the ending of Chapter 12. Further, Chapters 7 and 13 are both in retrospect to the latter parts of their previous chapters. Please notice that at Chapters 8 and 14 the saints are with God; they have been gathered via the rapture of the previous 3.5 years (pre-wrath). Am I describing the pre-wrath correctly? Bora, I am not pre wrath. Also, we are saved from wrath, we are not saved from tribulations. So if tribulations come, whether small or great, we go through them. The early church is a perfect example of this. So if great tribulations come, we can be starved, beaten, shipwrecked, stoned, in prisoned, and killed just as they were. God’s wrath is not shown anywhere to last 7 years or even 3.5 years. All speculations! We know this, the first word for wrath is Orge, that doesn’t show up till after the 6th seal is opened. That event mimicks Matthew 24 after the great persecution. If the AoD causes that event and it starts the latter half of 7 years, that means that time isn’t wrath. For wrath comes after the 6th seal, not before it. The AoD precedes the Orge (wrath), not the other way around. |
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