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Post by venge on Dec 16, 2020 8:01:06 GMT -6
In Daniel 12, we learn that everyone written in the book will be saved. Not only that, but many will resurrect to everlasting life
The placement of this prophecy is "at that time shall Michael stand up". The phrase, "at that time" takes place after the preceding events of Ch.11 where we view the AC attacking other nations.
But it is at the "time of the end" in Ch.11 that Ch.12 refers back to "and at that time" that Michael stands up. Not only that, but for the AC to overthrow many countries, to place his tabernacle between in the Holy mountain, two things would have to have already transpired.
1. The AC has already been revealed.
2. 3 of the 10 horns have been humbled/or removed
We also need to account for the AoD being setup before all this happens. If this is the mid point (AoD being setup), wouldnt the resurrection exist much later in the tribulation timeline and not at the begining of the 7 years?
Now, verse 35 makes the AoD, and the contents of that paragraph, is set up at the appointed time, but not the end.
Knowing all of this, the resurrection would take place after the AoD, after the man of sin is revealed and after he destroys many nations just as Dan 12 says.
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Post by stormyknight on Dec 16, 2020 10:59:16 GMT -6
Not exactly following you here, venge , are you meaning that there is only one resurrection? Because there was a resurrection at the time of Jesus' death;(I think this was a topic in another thread) "And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. And the earth shook, and the rocks were split. The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many." Matt. 27:51-53
Notice that they were raised when the curtain of the temple was torn in two, but they didn't come out of their tombs until Jesus' resurrection. but I digress.
Those who the angel is talking about in Dan. 11-12 are the Jews, Daniel's people, of whom Micheal is their defender. Isn't this event in Dan. 12:1-2 the same as Ezek. 37?
"Thus says the Lord God to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live, and you shall know that I am the Lord.” Ezek. 37:5-6
"And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered," Dan. 12:1
This is a physical resurrection. For some reason, it appears that not all of those resurrected will ultimately receive everlasting life. Perhaps it's because, even though they are told to 'hear the Word of the Lord', not all of them believe.
While we don't know exactly when the 'harpazo' occurs, it pertains to the church. This resurrection in Daniel would be a different event. Or am I all wet?
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Post by venge on Dec 18, 2020 8:23:37 GMT -6
Not exactly following you here, venge , are you meaning that there is only one resurrection? Because there was a resurrection at the time of Jesus' death;(I think this was a topic in another thread) "And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. And the earth shook, and the rocks were split. The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many." Matt. 27:51-53
Notice that they were raised when the curtain of the temple was torn in two, but they didn't come out of their tombs until Jesus' resurrection. but I digress.
Those who the angel is talking about in Dan. 11-12 are the Jews, Daniel's people, of whom Micheal is their defender. Isn't this event in Dan. 12:1-2 the same as Ezek. 37?
"Thus says the Lord God to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live, and you shall know that I am the Lord.” Ezek. 37:5-6
"And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered," Dan. 12:1
This is a physical resurrection. For some reason, it appears that not all of those resurrected will ultimately receive everlasting life. Perhaps it's because, even though they are told to 'hear the Word of the Lord', not all of them believe.
While we don't know exactly when the 'harpazo' occurs, it pertains to the church. This resurrection in Daniel would be a different event. Or am I all wet?
No, I am referring to the scripture that says: "Christ the first fruits, then those at his coming". Are they? Are you 100% sure? that you can stand before God and say that is what he is saying? IDK, Daniel's people were Jewish. Daniel's people are also those of the faith which was Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Daniel and all of us. We are both sons of God, Daniel and us. Let me ask you, who are the children of his people? And why does the text state every one that shall be found written in the book.
Doesnt everyone found written in the book...mean everyone in faith? |
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Post by stormyknight on Dec 21, 2020 9:14:35 GMT -6
I'd have to say, yes, I'm very confident that the angel talking to Daniel was referring to the Jews in our day, the children of his people. As for the text you posted, "everyone that shall be found written in the book". I'm thinking you are referring to Rev. 20:11-15? This is the Great White Throne judgement where all of the dead from all of history are judged. Andy Woods has some pretty good explanations on the different judgements in this video: (it should start at about 50:30 where he explains this)
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Post by venge on Dec 21, 2020 13:35:07 GMT -6
I'd have to say, yes, I'm very confident that the angel talking to Daniel was referring to the Jews in our day, the children of his people. As for the text you posted, "everyone that shall be found written in the book". I'm thinking you are referring to Rev. 20:11-15? This is the Great White Throne judgement where all of the dead from all of history are judged. Andy Woods has some pretty good explanations on the different judgements in this video: (it should start at about 50:30 where he explains this)
, I am not referring to the Great White Throne; Which takes place after the 1k year reign of Christ. I am referring to the resurrection of the just at the first resurrection. Daniel 12 says in its opening "at that time" and its referred back to Ch.11 which deems it at the end of that age when AC comes. All of that happens before Christ begins and finishes his reign. That places Dan 12 resurrection to everlasting life before Christ reign is over, not after it at the GWT judgment. It takes in the time that AC goes forth to conquer many and comes to his end. Are you saying the AC comes back after Christ millennial reign? Because to make Ch12 happen at the GWT, you would have to think Ch11 was after Christ reign and I cannot see that whatsoever. Back to your comment of: You can refer to my comment in this post: board.unsealed.org/thread/2461/24-elders-issueBut every resurrection has been back to life in a mortal corrupted state which they die again in their flesh. There has been only 1 resurrection to an immortal state (Christ) and the next one (us) is at Christ coming. So all other resurrections are not the resurrection we look to. There is only one 1st resurrection to immortality and then the 2nd resurrection at the Great White throne. We must differentiate resurrections by corruptible vs incorruptible. |
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Post by venge on Dec 21, 2020 13:44:38 GMT -6
I dont want to miss an edit, so I will just post there. In ref to Andy Woods (a Pre-Trib preacher) who thinks apostasia is a physical departure thereby trying to get around the wording of of said text and to prove a rapture precedes all other events and signs...I suggest this as a good read: coercioncode.com/2020/09/02/andy-woods-and-j-d-farag-the-hyper-pre-tribulation-now-the-latest-apostasy/It is Pre-Wraths rebuttal to Andy Woods assertion. And though, I am not Pre-Wrath, I have to agree with Alan's findings. |
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Post by stormyknight on Dec 21, 2020 15:33:47 GMT -6
Are you saying the AC comes back after Christ millennial reign? Because to make Ch12 happen at the GWT, you would have to think Ch11 was after Christ reign and I cannot see that whatsoever. no, I agree with you about this. The end of Daniel 11 is showing the movements of the AC and then "At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered." Dan. 12:1 I'm of the mind this will coincide with Jesus' return to the Mount of Olives. This is all about the nation of Israel. Nothing to do with the church or the GWT judgement.
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Post by venge on Dec 21, 2020 16:46:37 GMT -6
Are you saying the AC comes back after Christ millennial reign? Because to make Ch12 happen at the GWT, you would have to think Ch11 was after Christ reign and I cannot see that whatsoever. no, I agree with you about this. The end of Daniel 11 is showing the movements of the AC and then "At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered." Dan. 12:1 I'm of the mind this will coincide with Jesus' return to the Mount of Olives. This is all about the nation of Israel. Nothing to do with the church or the GWT judgement.
The Church is part of Israel. I think the nation of Israel is confusing you.( Edit: When I say this, I dont mean you just dont understand brother. What I mean is that it can confuse anyone if we dwell only on the physical) Forget the nation of Israel today. Forget America today. God's people that do his will, Jew and Gentile, are Israel. We are of that seed of Abraham. We are part of the promise. We are made Kings and Priests. A Holy nation. Christ was sent to be a light to the Gentiles right? He wants all to know God...regardless of your DNA. That's not the nation of Israel. That is believers in Christ. I dont care if you are a Chinese Christian, a Russian Christian or a Jewish Christian. You are all they that keep the commandments of God and testimony of Christ. We are now part of the commonwealth of Israel since we have Christ and are no longer aliens. As a past event, it was also made future by the coming of Messiah and bringing together all peoples, tongues, tribes and nations under 1 vine. We who were never part of Jacob, have been adopted into Jacob through Israel and Abraham. The sons of God are the same family with no respect to their earthly dna. Daniel's people were those that did the will of God. The original branch, whose house was left desolate when God and Christ removed himself from it. His death symbolizing the tearing of the veil, yet a remnant was kept. Another branch has been grafted in with the original; side by side. Both are given the promises. One is not removed over the other. Both branches are grafted to the same root. The resurrection to immortality doesnt happen for the Jews and the Church as two separate events. That doesnt exist anywhere in the Bible. Rather, the resurrection comes for us all at the same time. |
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