Sudan to normalize!

Gary Administrator Posts: 1,637 Dream Vacation: Israel Profession: Ministry I'm From: Texas	Sudan to normalize! Oct 19, 2020 15:12:03 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Gary on Oct 19, 2020 15:12:03 GMT -6 Another one.
	"For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures." (1 Cor. 15:3–4)

disciple4life
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Sudan to normalize! Oct 19, 2020 19:34:19 GMT -6 Gary likes this

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Post by disciple4life on Oct 19, 2020 19:34:19 GMT -6

Thanks @gary.
I wanted to just get your take on this, I'm not very well-versed on this, and I'm not arguing. Just trying to get a better understanding.

As i understand it, Sudan is one of the six nations listed in Ezekiel 38 which are part of the Gog of Magog War against Israel.

This "normalization/ or treaty" seems to me to be that they are signing an agreement that seems like a treaty - Even agreeing to Pay $335,000,000 to American victims and families of terrorist attacks, and that they would recognize Israel as a nation state, and if it's like the deal with UAE, then it also means that there would be free trade and free travel between Sudan and Israel.

This seems like the opposite of what we see in Ezekiel 38, where Sudan is clearly listed as one of the attackers/ agressors.
www.foi.org/free_resource/gog-magog/

cordially,
Disciple4life

Gary
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Sudan to normalize! Oct 19, 2020 20:42:57 GMT -6

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Post by Gary on Oct 19, 2020 20:42:57 GMT -6

That's a really good point. Ez. 38-39 even mentions "and many nations with thee." I'm in close agreement on most of the issues with teachers such as J.D. Farag, Jack Hibbs, Tim LaHaye, etc, but I do disagree in regard to Ezekiel 38. I do not [presently] believe that Ezekiel 38-39 can be taken literally while holding to the view it is a modern-day war that transpires shortly before or after the rapture. I believe Revelation 20 mentions the war of Gog and Magog because it *IS* the war of Gog and Magog.

Jeff and I share a very similar view about the timing, which he wrote about here:

www.unsealed.org/2020/02/gog-and-magog-war-to-end-all-wars.html

"For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures." (1 Cor. 15:3–4)

Natalie
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Sudan to normalize! Oct 20, 2020 8:15:08 GMT -6 Gary likes this

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Post by Natalie on Oct 20, 2020 8:15:08 GMT -6

I have also heard the possibility that it is not Sudan but Ethiopia. I do not know their relationship to Turkey, Russian, Iran, or Israel.

I do not know when the war will take place. Right now, I know what the Bible says, and I watch events to see if it might be. To me it looks like it's present day, but it's not something I am going to hold tightly to because as Gary mentioned, a Gog/Magog war is also mentioned at the end of Revelation.

Is 26:3 You keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on You, because he trusts in You.

venge
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Sudan to normalize! Oct 20, 2020 15:10:22 GMT -6 via mobile disciple4life likes this

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Post by venge on Oct 20, 2020 15:10:22 GMT -6

Oct 20, 2020 8:15:08 GMT -6 Natalie said:

I have also heard the possibility that it is not Sudan but Ethiopia. I do not know their relationship to Turkey, Russian, Iran, or Israel.

I do not know when the war will take place. Right now, I know what the Bible says, and I watch events to see if it might be. To me it looks like it's present day, but it's not something I am going to hold tightly to because as Gary mentioned, a Gog/Magog war is also mentioned at the end of Revelation.

Perhaps I misunderstand you but in the Old Testament, when the wording said Ethiopia, that is actually today’s Sudan.

Natalie Lamplighter Our King is coming! Posts: 2,939 Favorite Verse: Isaiah 26:3 Favorite Song: Jerusalem by CityALight Profession: homemaker I'm From: Illinois	Sudan to normalize! Oct 21, 2020 10:03:22 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Natalie on Oct 21, 2020 10:03:22 GMT -6 venge, I am just commenting on who people say Cush is in Ezekiel 38. Some say Sudan, some say Ethiopia.
	Is 26:3 You keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on You, because he trusts in You.

venge
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Sudan to normalize! Oct 21, 2020 15:58:55 GMT -6

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Post by venge on Oct 21, 2020 15:58:55 GMT -6

Oct 21, 2020 10:03:22 GMT -6 Natalie said:

venge , I am just commenting on who people say Cush is in Ezekiel 38. Some say Sudan, some say Ethiopia.

Ahh, gotcha! Just some wiki info:

Cush or Kush was, according to the Bible, the eldest son of Ham, a son of Noah. He was the brother of Canaan (land of Canaan), Mizraim (Egypt) and Phut (Ethiopia)

Cush has been regarded as coming from the Kingdom of Cush.

an ancient kingdom in Nubia, centered along the Nile Valley in what is now northern Sudan and southern Egypt.

Remember Candace in the Bible?

Kandake, kadake or kentake (Meroitic: 𐦲𐦷𐦲𐦡 kdke or 𐦲𐦴𐦲𐦡 ktke), often Latinised as Candace (Ancient Greek: Κανδάκη), was the Meroitic term for the sister of the king of Kush who, due to the matrilineal succession, would bear the next heir, making her a queen mother. She had her own court, probably acted as a landholder[1] and held a prominent secular role as regent.[2] Contemporary Greek and Roman sources treated it, incorrectly, as a name. The name Candace is derived from the way the word is used in the New Testament (Acts 8:27

In 25 BC, the Roman Emp. destroyed a Candace city in Napata which was located in what we today call Sudan.

EDIT:
Here is a neat site that goes into great detail regarding translation of the Bible with the words in question. In the end, you see this person identifies it as Sudan and he gives a scientific reason.

www.notjustanotherbook.com/queencandace.htm

Last Edit: Oct 21, 2020 17:44:04 GMT -6 by venge

Natalie
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Sudan to normalize! Oct 21, 2020 18:22:58 GMT -6 venge likes this

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Post by Natalie on Oct 21, 2020 18:22:58 GMT -6

disciple4life and venge

Thanks, venge. You gave me something to do this evening.

(It's been awhile since I really looked at Ez 38)

To back up what venge found on wikipedia:

This is from Answers in Genesis with the original source being Josephus: click here for full article

1. For of the four sons of Ham, time has not at all hurt the name of Cush; for the Ethiopians, over whom he reigned, are even at this day, both by themselves and by all men in Asia, called Cushites.
2. The memory also of the Mesraites is preserved in their name, for all we who inhabit this country [of Judea] called Egypt Mestre [Mizraim], and the Egyptians Mestreans.
3. Phut also was the founder of Libya, and called the inhabitants Phutites, from himself; there is also a river in the country of Moors which bears that name; where it is that we may see the greatest part of the Greek historiographers mention that river and the adjoining country by the appellation of Phut;

and from bibleatlas.org/full/cush.htm

shows a map of Cush being the area that is now Sudan

and from www.bible-history.com/maps/2-table-of-nations.html

this confirms that they settled south of Egypt

1. Cush (The Ethiopians) settled in Ethiopia south of Egypt, also early in their history some of them migrated to an area north of the Persian Gulf (Gen. 10:8-10).

2. Mizraim (The Egyptians) the Bible name for Egypt, settled in northeastern Africa.

3. Phut (The Libyans) sometimes translated Libya, settled in northern Africa.

So, I guess my question is ... what is Cush today? Is it Sudan where ancient Cush was located, or is it Ethiopia because of what the people were called? Did the Cushites move farther south at some point?

Is 26:3 You keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on You, because he trusts in You.

Natalie Lamplighter Our King is coming! Posts: 2,939 Favorite Verse: Isaiah 26:3 Favorite Song: Jerusalem by CityALight Profession: homemaker I'm From: Illinois	Sudan to normalize! Oct 21, 2020 19:18:53 GMT -6 disciple4life likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Natalie on Oct 21, 2020 19:18:53 GMT -6 This is kind of interesting: Cushitic languages www.ethnologue.com/subgroups/cushitic mostly Ethiopia, Somalia, Tanzania
	Is 26:3 You keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on You, because he trusts in You.

yardstick
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Sudan to normalize! Oct 21, 2020 19:29:16 GMT -6

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Post by yardstick on Oct 21, 2020 19:29:16 GMT -6

Oct 21, 2020 18:22:58 GMT -6 Natalie said:

disciple4life and venge

Thanks, venge. You gave me something to do this evening.

(It's been awhile since I really looked at Ez 38)

To back up what venge found on wikipedia:

This is from Answers in Genesis with the original source being Josephus: click here for full article

1. For of the four sons of Ham, time has not at all hurt the name of Cush; for the Ethiopians, over whom he reigned, are even at this day, both by themselves and by all men in Asia, called Cushites.
2. The memory also of the Mesraites is preserved in their name, for all we who inhabit this country [of Judea] called Egypt Mestre [Mizraim], and the Egyptians Mestreans.
3. Phut also was the founder of Libya, and called the inhabitants Phutites, from himself; there is also a river in the country of Moors which bears that name; where it is that we may see the greatest part of the Greek historiographers mention that river and the adjoining country by the appellation of Phut;

and from bibleatlas.org/full/cush.htm

shows a map of Cush being the area that is now Sudan

and from www.bible-history.com/maps/2-table-of-nations.html

this confirms that they settled south of Egypt

1. Cush (The Ethiopians) settled in Ethiopia south of Egypt, also early in their history some of them migrated to an area north of the Persian Gulf (Gen. 10:8-10).

2. Mizraim (The Egyptians) the Bible name for Egypt, settled in northeastern Africa.

3. Phut (The Libyans) sometimes translated Libya, settled in northern Africa.

So, I guess my question is ... what is Cush today? Is it Sudan where ancient Cush was located, or is it Ethiopia because of what the people were called? Did the Cushites move farther south at some point?

Doesn't God typically/Biblically always use the ancient name for a people?

Natalie Lamplighter Our King is coming! Posts: 2,939 Favorite Verse: Isaiah 26:3 Favorite Song: Jerusalem by CityALight Profession: homemaker I'm From: Illinois	Sudan to normalize! Oct 21, 2020 19:34:37 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Natalie on Oct 21, 2020 19:34:37 GMT -6 yardstick, so Sudan?
	Is 26:3 You keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on You, because he trusts in You.

venge
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Sudan to normalize! Oct 21, 2020 19:47:06 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by venge on Oct 21, 2020 19:47:06 GMT -6

Oct 21, 2020 19:34:37 GMT -6 Natalie said:

yardstick, so Sudan?

Natalie, did you see my edit in red? The link explains why our text says Ethiopia but it isn’t. Just read the first couple paragraphs

From the link:
The Greek word here translated "Ethiopian" is Aithiopos and not Aithiopia, the latter properly being Ethiopia in the Greek language. Some have historically felt that the word Aithiopos was derived from Aithiopia, so Ethiopia would be a legitimate translation of this word in Acts. We should note that this word, Aithiopos, only appears in the New Testament two times, both here in this verse of Acts, so there is no way to establish usage elsewhere in this book or in the New Testament as a whole.

Last Edit: Oct 21, 2020 19:48:25 GMT -6 by venge

yardstick Lamplighter Posts: 1,527	Sudan to normalize! Oct 21, 2020 20:27:15 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by yardstick on Oct 21, 2020 20:27:15 GMT -6 Oct 21, 2020 19:34:37 GMT -6 Natalie said: yardstick , so Sudan? In light of this new information, it seems a more likely guess based upon their involvement with Turkey and Russia lately...

sog Berean Posts: 541	Sudan to normalize! Oct 22, 2020 7:12:14 GMT -6 Natalie, mike, and 1 more like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by sog on Oct 22, 2020 7:12:14 GMT -6 Just because a nation signs a "normalization" or "peace" agreement doesn't necessarily mean they will abide by it. Perception of peace.