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Post by venge on Aug 28, 2020 7:28:19 GMT -6
In light of the protesting, destruction and other things happening - I had thought about this verse this morning. Now, this isnt a discussion of the protestors complaints or the destruction of private property (businesses).
Let me paint the verses below:
I thought about this as how it relates today with what is going on and was trying to figure out how it would play it against Christians. Though it already exists, its very possible it becomes more mainstream and violate against us.
So how did I see it today?
Those that are against todays protests or perhaps the reason why they protests have been offended by the protestors. The protestors have spewed hate at them and even attacked them. Families of protestors have fought against each other.
Today, they even deliver their names up on the internet with videos for all to see so that they may be attacked and hounded in their own homes.
Now, I am not siding with one group over another. I have my own views towards all things and God knows my heart. But the idea of all of this is a problem occurred right? There was social injustice and economics are also a concern. Eventually, this spread into issues that cause half the country to be in great rage and the other half (I'm just saying half as an example - not a fact) not so much. In all of this, lawlessness has increased.
Is this how it turns out for us? Will there be a social, economic or better yet...Policy issues that cause an uproar over the rest of the world that we (Christians) are to blame for holding back the things they want? Or is it a change in religious attitudes that drives issue in the future for people to rebel against?
It needs be something, because it will cause people to no longer adopt the faith, to betray one another, to cause great hate and disdain. All of this because lawlessness will abound. Do Christians do lawlessness? I think in the sense that many call themselves Christians and are not...yes, they still can do lawlessness. Only God knows who his children are and we...we are told to know them by their fruit.
What could be so gross and contested to have all of America hate Christians? Support for Trump? Possibly if he wins another 4 years. Policy changes for them? Possibly but not sure that would do it. What would it be? How do you all see this passage play out? Are there historical sources we can view to understand a future plight?
Can you imagine an event so big, that even Christians you know personally join the protestors against other Christians because their anger (is not controlled) and personal attitudes are driving instead of letting God's word take the wheel to steer.
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Post by sog on Aug 28, 2020 12:08:29 GMT -6
The one event that is currently being discussed here and worldwide is a mandated vaccine. It's already causing divisions between family and friends. Divisions between Christians and non-Christians alike. This more than any other will cause people to turn on each other, imo. Whether or not this is the actual Mark won't matter. It will be bitterly protested and refused, the majority of which will likely be Christians. It will be the Christians who will be blamed and will be hated for it. The secular world, and probably many Christians as well, will only see refusal as a selfish act. Both sides will accuse the other of lawlessness. One man's law, the other, God's law. Faith will be tested.
Luke 12:51-53
51 "Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division. 52 For from now on in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”
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Post by venge on Aug 28, 2020 14:11:48 GMT -6
The one event that is currently being discussed here and worldwide is a mandated vaccine. It's already causing divisions between family and friends. Divisions between Christians and non-Christians alike. This more than any other will cause people to turn on each other, imo. Whether or not this is the actual Mark won't matter. It will be bitterly protested and refused, the majority of which will likely be Christians. It will be the Christians who will be blamed and will be hated for it. The secular world, and probably many Christians as well, will only see refusal as a selfish act. Both sides will accuse the other of lawlessness. One man's law, the other, God's law. Faith will be tested. Luke 12:51-53 51 "Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division. 52 For from now on in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.” Though a vaccine could cause problems, I don’t think it’ll fulfill the saying of hated by every nation. This is cause for something Christians in name do that’s offensive to others or something they won’t do. I don’t see Christians world wide not getting vaccinated. Not enough to cause the description in scripture though |
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Post by sog on Aug 28, 2020 17:57:41 GMT -6
venge, I think I know your stance on the Mark being spiritual rather than physical, but for the sake of argument, let's say the coming mandated vaccine is the mark or is certainly believed by the majority of Christians to be the mark. ie., you cannot enter public places, including the grocery store, or any other store to buy goods or services. You cannot go on public transportation. You cannot go to school. You can no longer carry health insurance. etc., etc. In essence, you will not be able to buy or sell. This is what is being proposed. Revelation 16-17 16 And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, 17 and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark... And this is mandated for all. Each country agreeing worldwide. No exception, not even Religion. And the majority, not all, but the majority of those who refuse will be Christians (I believe this). Are you saying they won't be hated, blamed, despised to the point of wanting to kill or injure them? Personally, I find that very hard to believe. I'm of the opinion that the worldwide society will see us as an extraordinary risk to them and mankind as a whole. I see the worldwide media painting Christians as selfish and self-righteous kooks putting their beliefs above the safety of all. It certainly will be offensive to all, and yes so much so that we will be hated. I don't want to turn this into a Mark of the beast discussion. We can continue that in the many threads on that subject, but I do believe that would be the one thing that will get us hated and killed. When that will be, I don't know. Could be in months or years. They're pushing for it soon, but in reality it could take a while to actually reach mandate status.
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Post by disciple4life on Aug 29, 2020 22:23:45 GMT -6
Great thread, venge. Wow, it certainly is one that really makes you look at the world and cry out for Jesus' return. In my humble opinion- no scripture really to prove it- but I have thought a lot about the rioting and looting and total lawlessness and the wealthy or powerful people who support it, under the lie of social justice. I think there are 3 possible things. 1. One being the homosexual and closely connected pedophile agenda. The rabid leftist media and LGBT activist groups are increasingly ramping up the narrative that if you don't agree- then you are a homophobic hater. 2. The second issue that is a huge firestorm is BLM and the radical Marxist agenda behind it as well as the explicit and overt promotion of transsexual and homosexual lifestyle right on the official website. Those who don't agree, or point out the violence and racist vitriol are labeled racist/ white supremacists. Imagine a mainstream Evangelical pastor denouncing the radical group for what it really is. Many agree but are paralyzed by fear of being attacked or targeted and their home or business burned. While these are huge hot button issues, they really are not positions held only by Christians- its more that they are core issues of Conservatives. In poll after poll, a larger percentage of blacks oppose homosexuality per capita than whites. There are countless non-Christian liberals and non-Christian conservatives who oppose homosexuality. Same is true of BLM. 3. No other issue even remotely comes close to the topic of forced vaccines. venge, I totally agree- millions of Christians will happily take the vaccine. Also, i agree with you 100% that the vaccine itself is not THE Mark yet. It also doesn't require worship of the AC. But at this point, vast majority of Christians are clueless and oblivious to end times, and don't even think it will be mandated. Virginia is already calling for it, and like sog said, no exemption for religion. Denmark already passed a law and Australia is calling for the same. Government enforced , mandatory Vaccines and no exemption for religion. There are some groups opposed- homeschooling, and small libertarian groups, but the majority would be those who recognize this as the precursor for the Mark [Christians]. Unlike the BLM issue, or the homosexual issue or abortion rights, or immigration, or any other moral issue, etc etc, the vaccine is in a whole other stratosphere because if you oppose/ refuse- then you are a huge safety threat to me, my children, and all society. This is what will make people hate Christians. Just like the way that in the Middle Ages, the Black plague swept through Europe and bypassed the Jewish communities while millions died around them and people said they caused it. Hmmmmm. |
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mc
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Post by mc on Aug 30, 2020 2:03:49 GMT -6
A small correction Disciple4life. Australia is not calling for a law to be passed requiring the vaccine to be mandatory. Our PM, Scott Morrison, mentioned that he thought it would be a "no exceptions" situation, and then very quickly corrected himself, saying that he would definitely not be persuing a mandatory vaccine for Australia. He is, and always has been, pro-vaccination, but he is also a very strong, secure Christian. He has a vast group of Australians praying for him every day, and he participates in the prayer meetings. The things that are reported in the media about Australia are not always true. I've read things here, and on other Christian sites, that are false. I think it would be very wise if we prayed against the satanic spirit of unrest that is spreading throughout the world. The lies are spread far and wide, ultimately robbing us of the peace that the Lord offers us. The Lord has said that His wisdom is ours for the asking.
James1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given to him.
satan wants to divide us. Our Father wants our eyes on Jesus. I know we all know that, and I don't want to seem "preachy"! Eyes on Jesus💗
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Post by disciple4life on Aug 30, 2020 6:23:24 GMT -6
Hello mc, Welcome to the forum! Not sure if you're my Australian brother or sister, but we're glad when other wathchmen join our tribe. 🤣😉👍 Thank you also for the correction. I don't know if that information was in the article or not. As you so accurately stated, we can't always believe our news organizations And its even harder now than ever to discern what's accurate. Your Scots-Irish-French-Jewish-American "Otter" brother in Tennessee. Disciple4life I sure would love to get your take on the question of this thread topic. |
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Post by venge on Aug 30, 2020 6:36:44 GMT -6
Great thread, venge . Wow, it certainly is one that really makes you look at the world and cry out for Jesus' return. In my humble opinion- no scripture really to prove it- but I have thought a lot about the rioting and looting and total lawlessness and the wealthy or powerful people who support it, under the lie of social justice. I think there are 3 possible things. 1. One being the homosexual and closely connected pedophile agenda. The rabid leftist media and LGBT activist groups are increasingly ramping up the narrative that if you don't agree- then you are a homophobic hater. 2. The second issue that is a huge firestorm is BLM and the radical Marxist agenda behind it as well as the explicit and overt promotion of transsexual and homosexual lifestyle right on the official website. Those who don't agree, or point out the violence and racist vitriol are labeled racist/ white supremacists. Imagine a mainstream Evangelical pastor denouncing the radical group for what it really is. Many agree but are paralyzed by fear of being attacked or targeted and their home or business burned. While these are huge hot button issues, they really are not positions held only by Christians- its more that they are core issues of Conservatives. In poll after poll, a larger percentage of blacks oppose homosexuality per capita than whites. There are countless non-Christian liberals and non-Christian conservatives who oppose homosexuality. Same is true of BLM. 3. No other issue even remotely comes close to the topic of forced vaccines. venge , I totally agree- millions of Christians will happily take the vaccine. Also, i agree with you 100% that the vaccine itself is not THE Mark yet. It also doesn't require worship of the AC. But at this point, vast majority of Christians are clueless and oblivious to end times, and don't even think it will be mandated. Virginia is already calling for it, and like sog said, no exemption for religion. Denmark already passed a law and Australia is calling for the same. Government enforced , mandatory Vaccines and no exemption for religion. There are some groups opposed- homeschooling, and small libertarian groups, but the majority would be those who recognize this as the precursor for the Mark [Christians]. Unlike the BLM issue, or the homosexual issue or abortion rights, or immigration, or any other moral issue, etc etc, the vaccine is in a whole other stratosphere because if you oppose/ refuse- then you are a huge safety threat to me, my children, and all society. This is what will make people hate Christians. Just like the way that in the Middle Ages, the Black plague swept through Europe and bypassed the Jewish communities while millions died around them and people said they caused it. Hmmmmm. Wasnt aware of that in VA. Just found an article on it...truly sad. I live in VA. Not that I'd refuse a vaccine anyway, but I would have an option to do so. |
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Post by disciple4life on Aug 30, 2020 11:34:46 GMT -6
Following is an excerpt from an article in Prophecy News Watch - "Global Digital ID With Vaccines Is Now Being Promoted As Way To Combat The Virus" www.prophecynewswatch.com/article.cfm?recent_news_id=3972 "Gates said in a 2018 CNBC interview that it was "too bad" if someone thought that Aadhaar was a privacy issue and that those who refuse to be tagged by this system will eventually become outcasts and denied basic services. If you believe this is dangerously close to China's "social credit" system, you're not far off the mark. Such a vaccine will eventually become mandatory and those who resist will be blacklisted as public health criminals. They will be locked out of society, similar to Chinese citizens suffering under China's totalitarian social credit system. " |
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