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Post by stormyknight on Jul 17, 2020 11:35:06 GMT -6
Has anyone here heard of Dr. Andrew Woods or the Sugar Land Bible Church? My sibling brother, who is also a brother in Christ, pointed me to this series and I was wondering about it. I'm always skeptical, but I try to keep an open mind. I've never heard of this place and I didn't want to have walked in the door and sat down only to find I'm having to fight one of Satan's subtle wolfs in sheep's clothing. I'm just now five minutes into it and so far so good. Also, if this is a good fountain of truth to drink from, then I hope it helps anyone and everyone else.
Maranatha!
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Post by Natalie on Jul 17, 2020 11:58:38 GMT -6
I wonder if this is the same Andy Woods that JD Farag mentioned a few weeks ago? If so, he wrote a book/booklet on the rapture being the departure talked about in 2 Thes.
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Post by fitz on Jul 17, 2020 12:48:45 GMT -6
Andy Woods...A-ok in my book...Pre-Mill, Pre-Trib...etc.
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Post by bernie on Jul 17, 2020 13:20:44 GMT -6
I wonder if this is the same Andy Woods that JD Farag mentioned a few weeks ago? If so, he wrote a book/booklet on the rapture being the departure talked about in 2 Thes. It is the guy JD mentioned. It's an interesting theory that I'm the fence on. It could be correct, but there's also enough evidence elsewhere to have a solid belief in a pretrib rapture without it. If he's correct, it's just more confirmation, but a really BIG confirmation.  The name of the book is; The Falling Away: Spiritual Departure or Physical Rapture?: A Second Look at 2 Thessalonians 2:3. I haven't read it but it convinced JD and others as to the true meaning. Here's the message where JD talks about it: What's also interesting is when JD starts the message he reads the verse from the 1599 Geneva Bible, which uses the word "Departure." |
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Post by venge on Jul 18, 2020 7:00:31 GMT -6
Has anyone here heard of Dr. Andrew Woods or the Sugar Land Bible Church? My sibling brother, who is also a brother in Christ, pointed me to this series and I was wondering about it. I'm always skeptical, but I try to keep an open mind. I've never heard of this place and I didn't want to have walked in the door and sat down only to find I'm having to fight one of Satan's subtle wolfs in sheep's clothing. I'm just now five minutes into it and so far so good. Also, if this is a good fountain of truth to drink from, then I hope it helps anyone and everyone else.
Maranatha!
Something I saw on his teleprompter: He quotes Immanency, if you believe in it, from 1 Cor 15:51 and 1 Thess 4:15. Neither of which describe an immanent return any second from about 30 AD to 2020 AD. |
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Post by disciple4life on Jul 23, 2020 19:23:47 GMT -6
Has anyone here heard of Dr. Andrew Woods or the Sugar Land Bible Church? My sibling brother, who is also a brother in Christ, pointed me to this series and I was wondering about it. I'm always skeptical, but I try to keep an open mind. I've never heard of this place and I didn't want to have walked in the door and sat down only to find I'm having to fight one of Satan's subtle wolfs in sheep's clothing. I'm just now five minutes into it and so far so good. Also, if this is a good fountain of truth to drink from, then I hope it helps anyone and everyone else.
Maranatha!
Something I saw on his teleprompter: He quotes Immanency, if you believe in it, from 1 Cor 15:51 and 1 Thess 4:15. Neither of which describe an immanent return any second from about 30 AD to 2020 AD. You are spot on, venge . Not only do neither of these verses have anything remotely to do with imminent [any moment, random surprise ] rapture, but it's also odd that he chose these verses.
The other thing I've seen after much study, is that there is not an iota of scripture anywhere to support the notion of an imminent rapture. The only "support" is one verse completely taken out of context - where Christ, a Jew, in a Jewish culture, tells his Jewish disciples, a Jewish idiom, - which was instantly recognizable as "Turkey Day", for Americans or the "10 Day Weekend"for Poles.
I get that not all watchmen agree on the feasts, - and I'm OK with that.  What I don't get is how anyone can hold two mutually exclusive views - one supported by scripture and explicitly stated in scripture - by Christ and Paul, - that for us- Christians- Children of the Day, that the rapture will not surprise us like a thief in the night vs the view that the rapture can be any day. As random and unpredictable as a deer on the road.
Further, Christ says that the 5 bridesmaids were foolish - [some translations say wicked] because they didn't know the hour, but the 5 wise ones did. In this rapture passage - the bridesmaids clearly know when the wedding is happening. Think about a wedding, where you are sent an invitation but there is no time. Just be ready - every day, every hour, every year to go to a planned event, for which there is a rehearsal. hmmmm 
If the rapture were random, surprise, imminent - Paul's words and Christ's teachings are false. If Christ's words [taken out of context by Gentile pastors, in another culture] were actually totally clear and made perfect sense to his Jewish followers - and they point to the Feast when No One Knows the Day or Hour, which also agrees with Paul's words regarding the Last Trumpet, - then no imminent rapture. fa
My point is not in any way to disparage Andy Woods, or his series - it actually sounds very interesting. While the word can mean that, it becomes a red herring to distract people regarding the multiple other places and examples of the real dangers of departing from the faith, and it's significance as a sign we are truly in the very last days - right on the cusp. But regarding imminent, -random, surprise rapture I think people need to examine the sources for themselves - and not accept everything just because a pastor said it. We are called to be like the Bereans - who searched the scriptures daily to see that these things were true. ;-)
Disciple4life
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Post by venge on Jul 24, 2020 6:11:09 GMT -6
disciple4life , To follow up what you said here, When I'm told of a wedding, sometimes the bride and groom don't know the date or the hr. The proposal has happened, they both agree to get married and are planning it...or the Father is planning it. But in each case, many times as they work on the semantics, the date and hr are not set in stone yet. So we can go months of time knowing a friend is going to get married and not get the actual time and hr till its almost upon us.... Sometimes, we will even have our friend tell us: The caterer is ready, then a week later- location is finalized, then 4 days later- the DJ is done, then 2 days later -the Pastor/Reverend is standing by... we have these signs to let us know its almost at the door.
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Post by Gary on Jul 24, 2020 10:31:23 GMT -6
I agree with imminency ("happening soon"), I just think that in some pre-trib circles it has come to mean "at any moment," which is clearly not accurate and isn't even what the word itself means. Imho.
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Post by mike on Jul 24, 2020 11:02:26 GMT -6
I agree with imminency ("happening soon"), I just think that in some pre-trib circles it has come to mean "at any moment," which is clearly not accurate and isn't even what the word itself means. Imho.
"they were in imminent danger of being swept away"To me this means its obvious that ________ will occur. The "it could be today" doctrine is off and likely based on Matt 25:13, which is taken out of context. I like to think today/tomorrow could be the day and decide to live as such as instructed, but really this admonishment is to those not paying attention like the 5 foolish. For those not watching, His return will be sudden, but for those paying attention it will not be a surprise. I like how Albert Barnes comments on this: |
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Post by disciple4life on Jul 25, 2020 18:19:55 GMT -6
I agree with imminency ("happening soon"), I just think that in some pre-trib circles it has come to mean "at any moment," which is clearly not accurate and isn't even what the word itself means. Imho. Yes, Gary the word itself has a very broad range of meaning based on the individual user. In the EFCA Evangelical Free Church of America - there was an article about the change in understanding and use of the word. The word imminent has/and is changing from meaning "at any moment" to "within our lifetime". *** This is a very specific shift within one denomination [which I am a member] and i don't want to derail this thread. I think the real factor that unmuddies the issue is if Christ and Paul and others wrote and gave hints that the rapture is on a specific known day or does the collective sum of their combined writings/scripture say it's an unknown day. Random/surprise like a deer in the road. Hmmm When we think about a wedding and the word rehearsal the point is that the rehearsal looks like the actual event. Same people, same place, same songs, or play, and the specific parts of the rehearsal are in the same order, same plan as the actual event. If an event is unknown [random surprise] then a rehearsal is not only pointless but impossible. The analogy of a fire drill or tornado drill is invalid because the rapture is instant and the fire/tornado drill is not preparing one to be ready before it happens, but conversely what to do after it happens [process] and for the rapture- after it happens- it won't help that people recognized that it was the rapture. Disciple4Life |
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The name of the book is; The Falling Away: Spiritual Departure or Physical Rapture?: A Second Look at 2 Thessalonians 2:3. I haven't read it but it convinced JD and others as to the true meaning.
What I don't get is how anyone can hold two mutually exclusive views - one supported by scripture and explicitly stated in scripture - by Christ and Paul, - that for us- Christians- Children of the Day, that the rapture will not surprise us like a thief in the night vs the view that the rapture can be any day. As random and unpredictable as a deer on the road. 
