Regarding the 144k: Can you please explain the quotes below, if they are not jewish virgin males?
Stick - My thoughts were not that these were not 144k Jewish males rather the emphasis was that they are redeemed from among men, following the Lamb wherever He goes. How is this possible? Where is the Lamb that they have the ability to follow Him wherever He goes?
If Jesus is in the heavens, then we could deduce they are also - if that is the case they cannot be in earth suit but must clothed from on high. <sound reasonable?
If this is more allegorical or metaphoric than these 144k would be walking in perfect love, unblemished in the Spirit, "following" Jesus (rather His ways) wherever He goes. They would be prohibited from following wherever He goes if still clothed with mortality. Does that sound reasonable? Do you think its possible?
I do not but I suppose that God could fill someone with His Spirit to perfection, similar to Paul yet even He had his issues. However if they are redeemed, and we are redeemed as firstfruits I do not see them as still clothed with earthly bodies. Similar to what Venge posed they would be without spot or virgins from a spiritual perspective - I suppose that option is plausible.
I have heard Chuck Missler touch on the tribes and there are really 14 (12 then take out Joseph for Manasseh/Ephraim = 13, inclusive of Levi) and can always omit one (plus Levi), to be interchanged to end with 12 every time. I have not heard his study just allusions to it. But it makes sense when you think it through about the tribes as well as apostles (there were technically 14)
There are other things to contemplate as well such as:
1. In regards to the New Jerusalem, Revelation 21:12 states:
And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
And we as Gentiles grafted into true Israel walk in and out of those gates of New Jerusalem. If we walk through the gates of the 12 tribes, and New Jerusalem is our (All Christians) Holy City, how is it we cannot be of the same 12 tribes whose gates we walk into and out of daily?
For Gill comments and says this about it:
This isn't literal Israel and the 12 tribes, but mystical Israel whom God has chosen to salvation, Christ has redeemed by his blood, and the spirit calls by his grace; denoting that all, and each of these, have a right to enter into the New Jerusalem, and will be admitted there, and none but they.
We cannot forget that the body of Christ is made up of believers in faith regardless if you are a Jew or Gentile. Secondly, the temple is built on the prophets and the apostles w/Christ the cornerstone. How are we not apart of any tribe? This is not a bloodline...Revelation doesn't work that way. God is a spirit and works through spiritual matters. Does he view you as an Italian or does he view you as a Levite or a Danite or a Benjamite? The tribes all had good things and bad things about them. One was told they would prosper well but didn't that prosperity cause their destruction too?
EnochWalked: There will be a big temptation for the older generations in any country to vote for politicians which give them luxurious pension benefits, paid for by the younger generations, who are so overtaxed that they can't afford to start families of their own.
Feb 29, 2024 9:57:02 GMT -6
EnochWalked: In such a scenario, it makes more sense to emigrate, which puts more of a tax burden on the dwindling numbers of young people who choose to stay. Will governments start banning their young citizens from ever leaving the country?
Feb 29, 2024 9:58:50 GMT -6
EnochWalked: Some sort of mandatory annual conscription or national service could prevent military-aged citizens from taking jobs abroad and establishing roots there. Banning the teaching of foreign languages could also make it harder for citizens to leave.
Feb 29, 2024 10:01:04 GMT -6
EnochWalked: Many Western countries are under pressure to limit the numbers of illegal immigrants arriving, but might benefit from accepting young healthy Japanese or South Korean graduates. That would still be unpopular with some for diluting the majority population.
Feb 29, 2024 10:04:22 GMT -6
EnochWalked: These demographic pressures could have significant geopolitical effects, such as the cost of defending South Korea from the North, or Japan from China. The rise of humanoid robots and AI will also affect the supply and demand for immigrants.
Feb 29, 2024 10:07:23 GMT -6
Boymaker726 : I was really taken aback to see that Greg believes that there were beings on earth before God created man. Is that the position of this site? That the Genesis account omitted something like soulless humans?
Mar 3, 2024 16:30:26 GMT -6
EnochWalked: That's a surprising position to hold, indeed. Most traditions teach that Adam and Eve had multiple daughters (possibly as twins of their sons), so I don't think that the "soulless humans" hypothesis is needed. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aclima
Mar 3, 2024 17:56:07 GMT -6
EnochWalked: Speaking of human timelines, something else just occurred to me. Perhaps the reason why the Bible doesn't give much detail about the Millennial period is that it involves humans settling on other planets, which wouldn't have made sense in the 1st century.
Mar 3, 2024 18:30:00 GMT -6
EnochWalked: The Tribulation could set back science and technology by centuries, and obviously will reduce the population, but 1000 years of good governance and blessed prosperity could allow the rebuilding of civilization to happen much faster than the original time.
Mar 3, 2024 18:32:55 GMT -6
EnochWalked: I could imagine that in the year 3024, there are millions or even billions of people living across the solar system, and the generations born away from Earth might start to lose their political and moral connection to humans back on this planet.
Mar 3, 2024 18:34:37 GMT -6
EnochWalked: For reference, Passover this year is from the 22nd to 30th of April, which comes after the solar eclipse. Another day to watch is www.hebcal.com/holidays/shabbat-parah-2024 "Friday, 29 March 2024" "Shabbat of the Red Heifer"
Mar 3, 2024 22:56:03 GMT -6
leewiggins63: Just saw this, April 8th eclipse, will pass over 7 US cities named Nineveh. Most are connecting it with the story of Jonah. 7 cites named Salem in 2017 eclipse.
Mar 4, 2024 6:56:44 GMT -6
EnochWalked: Thanks Lee! More confirmation that this is a moment to watch for, assuming we're all still here in April. I'm still curious about what we'll see on 3/11 with the new year Hebrew year. There are a lot of coincidences pointing to that date.
Mar 4, 2024 15:23:42 GMT -6