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Post by kjs on Apr 2, 2020 11:10:30 GMT -6
There have been some really strange happenings Say what?
going around and I personally feel once again we are facing Con-men who will do anything to keep the con a going we the have absolutely no regard for their active members.... Help me out folks! Show me where I am missing the facts... These so called pastors are causing more damage than anything else plus they are ruining the name of true Christians. Fact this virus has a R0 (pronounced R Naught) Factor of 2 or even closer to 3... What that means is a person who is infected can potentially pass it on to 2 or 3 others. WITHOUT even being aware of it! Case and Point - A church choir decided to have rehearsal for an upcoming event ... Google for story because it is still out there... Nutshell version, if though they used sanitizer and kept some distance between each other .... AND no one appeared sick..... Later there were two deaths, and over 30 positives in that one choir group. Folks this is real, and thankfully the majority recover after, but there is still around 5% death rate .... How would you feel, If you decided to attend such an event -- get infected and unknowing pass it on to your Grandmother, who ends up dying because of it.... |
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Post by yardstick on Apr 2, 2020 12:51:10 GMT -6
kjs, A rather rabidly anti-christian site...
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Post by mike on Apr 2, 2020 13:12:59 GMT -6
kjs I'll jump in and say that first and foremost I do see that this is an active virus with potential to kill people. I don't want to see that happen if preventable, but is it fully preventable? I don't believe it is as evidenced by those already sick and/or passed. So it seems we're fighting the wind here. 5% is the current death rate of people actually tested and confirmed to have the virus, so I suspect the total rate is actually much much lower than that, because most testing centers are turning people away if their symptoms aren't severe. Checking this website with data from about a week ago. Testing is/was limited So what do we end up with, but a highly skewed number where tests are administered to people who are high risk. But for the sake of discussion (not arguing brother) lets keep it at 5%. The BIG problem with this whole issue is that many people don't know they're infected and/or fall into the 95% that have mild symptoms. Global - if every person caught the virus and the testing was near 100% efficiency we could estimate that over 380,000,000 globally (7.7B x 5%) would die from this! LIKE WOW! If we have the evidence that soooo many would certainly die, I'd agree that this is the worst possible scenario and the rider on the red horse is certainly riding and everyone should shelter in place until the death angel passes over! So what do we do - close down the entire world, lock people up for leaving their homes, not allow people to express their religious freedom especially during the Passover/Easter season while using panic and fear to claim " this is a global pandemic and a medical emergency" (<quote from the article you posted) without any real solid data to back this up? Shouldn't we rather quarantine those who are risk rather than everyone?Truth is we're not seeing numbers like those we're being told to believe. Even in China where there are well over 1 billion, they claim 3,300 deaths of 83,000 cases. Does it really make sense to shelter in place 1.3 billion people for what amounts to 0.00025% of the people? or 0.0064 of those who are otherwise healthy compared to sick? I think not. USA totals of about 360,000,000 people to 240,000 sick (0.67%) and deaths 5,700 (0.16%) Could we focus some attention on doctors who cause preventable deaths instead of creating global fear and panic? Third leading cause of death in AmericaWhile researching some of the number I am across this despicable information from CNN. Tell me the media isn't trying to create more fear - perhaps the next step is to stop everyone from talking? breathing? Transmission through talking and breathing
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Post by mike on Apr 2, 2020 13:20:55 GMT -6
With respects to the church Pastor, if he's educated and done his research, similar to what I easily presented he has good reason to continue to doubt the politicians and the message they send out that the sky is falling. When the sky falls we will know it for certain. This is allowed by God so I yield to it, but I don't like the narrative the media is throwing out at us. Tell both sides of the story please EDIT - Just finished reading Job (today) and realize the media will be held accountable for their words. Heb 10:31 comes to mind (though I may be taking it out context  ) |
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Post by kjs on Apr 2, 2020 13:50:19 GMT -6
So yardstick, Since you think the RO factor is down at zero, explain the choir scenario..... NO One showed symptoms, Everyone kept distance, they did practice in a group (but spread out) over thirty turn positive, and two died. Sure seems to me the infection rate with NO symptoms is a lot higher than zero. mike, So using your own stats - THEY are not testing everyone. And while it is a good idea to only quarantine the sick and allow them to get better. Fact is NO ONE knows who is infected. Let me phrase it this way .... IT GOT OUT. What ever it started as, it got past precautions that got put in place and because it did it has spread like wildfire and it keeps spreading.... Because ,many are not taking it seriously enough. You use China as an example (you could also use South Korea). Yes, they had a major outbreak, but they also implemented steps right away, that while not popular ... Did slow the spread. SK got the first victim the same day as USA. SK implemented procedures right away ... And they are currently contained. USA ... Not so much, it is spreading. Yes if we or any country had a handle on who is infected, it is real simple ... Quarantine the sick ... Problem solved. As it stands now, anyone could have it and spread it.... That scenario is much harder to contain. As far as restricting churches rights..... In this day and ages ... There is Facebook, Zoom, Skype .... Many, many softwares that would allow streaming services. Is it that difficult to "error" on the side of caution? Was it Ben Frankline that said an ounce of prevention is a pound of cure? |
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Post by yardstick on Apr 2, 2020 15:29:07 GMT -6
So yardstick , Since you think the RO factor is down at zero, explain the choir scenario..... NO One showed symptoms, Everyone kept distance, they did practice in a group (but spread out) over thirty turn positive, and two died. Sure seems to me the infection rate with NO symptoms is a lot higher than zero. mike , So using your own stats - THEY are not testing everyone. And while it is a good idea to only quarantine the sick and allow them to get better. Fact is NO ONE knows who is infected. Let me phrase it this way .... IT GOT OUT. What ever it started as, it got past precautions that got put in place and because it did it has spread like wildfire and it keeps spreading.... Because ,many are not taking it seriously enough. You use China as an example (you could also use South Korea). Yes, they had a major outbreak, but they also implemented steps right away, that while not popular ... Did slow the spread. SK got the first victim the same day as USA. SK implemented procedures right away ... And they are currently contained. USA ... Not so much, it is spreading. Yes if we or any country had a handle on who is infected, it is real simple ... Quarantine the sick ... Problem solved. As it stands now, anyone could have it and spread it.... That scenario is much harder to contain. As far as restricting churches rights..... In this day and ages ... There is Facebook, Zoom, Skype .... Many, many softwares that would allow streaming services. Is it that difficult to "error" on the side of caution? Was it Ben Frankline that said an ounce of prevention is a pound of cure? Not sure where I said the R0 rate is at zero? 'Carriers' do not have to show symptoms, though. IIRC, airborne and persistent contagions do not care how far away people are. It could have been the cleaning lady who cleaned the room 4 hours ago; or the virus could be in the HVAC system and is being circulated through the building. As I am sure you and others are aware, a virus can mutate, and treatment of virii typically involves mitigation of symptoms (hot liquids, cough suppressants/decongestants, et al) with the hope that the body's immune system will eventually kill the virus. Since immune systems are weaker in the elderly, children, and those with auto-immune diseases, they are the most at risk, and the most likely to succumb. Blood serum treatments of people who have survived can be helpful if the virus mutation rate is low (as CoVi-D19) is. I believe this serum strategy has been proposed and is being tested; though I do not know about results yet. I would point out that there is 'no money' in this strategy because it cannot be patented. Yet the patentable (allopathic method) strategies will take at least a year and a half to implement. You probably have already heard all this though. I am hopeful the blood serum method will be efficacious and implemented. |
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Post by mike on Apr 2, 2020 15:50:55 GMT -6
KJ - just to be clear The numbers (population) and stats (media sources) I provided are fair and come along with documented articles. The article in point is they are testing only the high risk people, which really skews numbers. And since the global shutdown is based on those numbers, we need to be more prudent about our analysis of situations and understand THEY are telling us what they want us to hear. I dont disagree that we dont know who is infected and the fact is WE WONT! When will the quarantine ever be long enough? IT WONT - because we dont know who is sick with the virus or not. I have seen articles about this waning in the summer and returning in the fall. Then what? From my viewpoint it doesnt matter how serious we take it or not, it is spreading and will continue regardless of how many people stay home or dont. Unless they place an absolute quarantine on every single person for over two weeks, three weeks, four weeks probably, then maybe it goes away. I have much more to say but will refrain as this whole thing is allowed by God and therefore falls into His purpose and plan and need to keep reminding myself of this FACT  |
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Post by sog on Apr 2, 2020 21:11:20 GMT -6
I don't think this is a hoax. Even with all the countries that I believe are lying about their true numbers, meaning this is worse than is being reported by them, the numbers we do have show this is an especially dangerous and contagious virus. Has the world seen worse? Yes, but again we are only a few months in. I cannot stress that enough. This may and probably will go on for a while. Even with a summer reprieve, it will most certainly start up again in the Fall again as most viruses do. So we can just keep praying for our needs and the needs of others. This graphic from this link that Gary shared at the beginning of the COVID-19 thread shows a disturbing trend. Among Closed cases, meaning those we know have had an conclusive outcome show the death rate at now 20%. 20% ! That is 1 in 5 folks. That statistic has been steadily climbing over the past couple weeks. It used to be closer to the active cases. Not anymore. Even the still active cases shows a 5% percent serious-critical status. That is right in-line with the OVERALL death rate. But if that closed case rate holds, that means even among those with a mild condition may die. And even 5% is a death rate of 5 in 100. A far, far cry from the 1 in 1000 death rate of a regular flu. www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ Having said all that, I do believe the economic stress is going to have a much greater impact than the virus itself. Each one of us has been impacted already and in my opinion we will be impacted even further in the coming months. Life is going to get tougher. The world leaders are beginning to enact new authoritative controls that are going to change everything we can say or do. The beast system is rising. Was this not foretold? Is prophecy not leaping off the pages of God's word to shake us to our very soul! Remind our brothers and sisters in Christ of the hope and promise. Now the great news! God is in control! He gave us our salvation to rise, literally, above the Great Tribulation coming to this world at the appointed time. Jesus! Seek out Jesus. It's easy. 28 “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.” Matthew 11:28-30 Receive Jesus Christ now... Admit you have sinned and are a sinner. "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23 Believe Jesus is the risen true Son of God who sacrificed his life on the cross for our sins. "While we were sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8 And Confess with your mouth and believe with your heart that Jesus is your one and only Lord and Savior. "If you will confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9 Now that is Truly, truly not a hoax! |
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Post by mike on Apr 3, 2020 9:45:56 GMT -6
sogYou do realize these totals are telling the story they want to support the quarantine? Look at the chart for today. NY state had almost 10,000 cases since the prior day, while NJ shows ZERO! How is that even possible? It isnt Now I take this with a grain of salt but my wife and I know a couple of NJ nurses. They have told us they are only testing the very sick people. People with mild symptoms are being turned away. The numbers are skewed. I say this only to help people reading along to put things in perspective that the % is very off. Not to reduce the urgency of the situation, but to reduce the fear and panic, which we know is not of our Lord. As you indicate brother, we are to trust in HIM. Reading Psalms myself now (after finishing Job) helps me 
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Post by sog on Apr 3, 2020 10:11:31 GMT -6
I don't know mike, This foxnews update from yesterday says NJ had 3,489 new cases. Some sites are slower to update. www.fox5ny.com/news/gov-murphy-suggests-social-distancing-at-homefrom link - Gov. Murphy made the statement after reporting the state had 3,489 new positive cases bringing the statewide total to 25,590 cases. The reported number of deaths doubled to 537 with 182 newly reported deaths. Psalms is very uplifting. Praise God for that. |
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Post by mike on Apr 3, 2020 10:49:00 GMT -6
I don't know mike , This foxnews update from yesterday says NJ had 3,489 new cases. Some sites are slower to update. www.fox5ny.com/news/gov-murphy-suggests-social-distancing-at-homefrom link - Gov. Murphy made the statement after reporting the state had 3,489 new positive cases bringing the statewide total to 25,590 cases. The reported number of deaths doubled to 537 with 182 newly reported deaths. Psalms is very uplifting. Praise God for that. Just telling you what the link had in it - mis/dis-information everywhere which is why we trust in HIS word as our sole source of information EDIT - noticed earlier the PA had no new cases and now they have over 1,100 EDIT 2 (1:35PM) NJ now shows 4,300 new cases today Also the link you provided about NJ is a ridiculous suggestion by my governor. I will not stay 6 ft from my wife and our kids. Should I sleep in another room? Now more than ever they need to know they are loved and cared for. 1Pet 5:14 1 Cor 16:20 Rom 16:16 We should all the more, as we see the day approaching! (After re-reading my post I want to be clear - I'm not suggesting to run around kissing and hugging everyone, rather kiss your wife and children!) |
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Post by sog on Apr 3, 2020 11:14:22 GMT -6
Also the link you provided about NJ is a ridiculous suggestion by my governor. I will not stay 6 ft from my wife and our kids. Should I sleep in another room? Now more than ever they need to know they are loved and cared for. 1Pet 5:14 1 Cor 16:20 Rom 16:16 We should all the more, as we see the day approaching! I whole-heartedly agree! Satan and his demons are working overtime to not only tear the world, nations, states, but all the way down to the family apart over this. It is my belief demons are working this from both sides - destroying man with the virus and even more so with the panic. As Christians we should look to Jesus in all things and not fear or panic because we know that God has us in his hands. I would never do what the Gov. is suggesting. I'm glad for you and for all at this site to help keep my sanity. This site is a blessing that we may come here to express what we are seeing and feeling and to spread the word. Otherwise I think I'd be lost in my own thoughts. Thanks Brother for those scripture reminders. |
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