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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2020 13:12:55 GMT -6
I am having a visceral reaction to professed Christians, while we are fulfilling prophecy left and right, saying that there is no Rapture and we will go through the Tribulation.
What is the purpose of this, at this time?
To publicly cast doubt on our blessed hope?
Is this a tool of the enemy (as in 1Thess when they believed they missed the gathering and were in the Tribulation) or someone just working it out?
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Post by mike on Mar 30, 2020 19:07:41 GMT -6
I hope you don't include this social media site? We don't have a lot of rules here as we want conversation to be open to possible interpretations of prophecy, since no one can be "correct" in interpretation until it actually happens. Replacement Theology disregards the literal interpretation of scripture, allegorize where it is not necessary. We cover this in Rule 1
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Mar 30, 2020 20:55:32 GMT -6
boymaker , I am Christ-follower, not ascribing to a specific denomination or name given by men. And, refuse to be labeled by mankind when it comes to understanding the timeline of the events that happen just prior to His Second Coming. NO ONE has a consensus and I would fear consensus, which is what kept the scribes so stubborn, IMHO. I have been in a camp of a certain understanding of how things are supposed to go. I have read books with a marvelous scriptural based respresentation of what it will look like as the birth pangs deepen, and with more frequency. There is one thing that I know as a Christ-follower and that is those who are In Christ are not destined for Wrath. I would like to think that in this life we SHOULD expect to withstand a bit of tribulation. But I wonder sometimes that we confuse tribulation with wrath. Take this verse: 21“For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Now there is debate if this verse is talking about the 2nd Temple destruction and the dispersal of 70 AD Israel. I don't care about that right now. The word for tribulation here in this verse in the greek is thlipsis = properly, pressure (what constricts or rubs together), used of a narrow place that "hems someone in"; tribulation, especially internal pressure that causes someone to feel confined (restricted, "without options"). ("compression, tribulation") carries the challenge of coping with the internal pressure of a tribulation, especially when feeling there is "no way of escape" Seems to me this is a personal situation, not a universal destruction of physical things like forest fires, disease like Wuhan 19 or socialism overtaking the USA. Has anyone ever been with someone who is experiencing no hope? Or, is at the end of their rope in physical pain from a disease or divorce or loss of child or name it... I am not saying this is what this verse is ACTUALLY saying, but what I am suggesting is that our HOPE could very well be challenged, because the powers and principalities and the things unseen in the spiritual realm are very good at casting doubt and have only a short time to do this. We all need to be prepared to handle this DOUBT cloud. Does this mean we are not saved? Really? that would even come to mind as a question?! Look at how many times Paul warned of tribulation. And he was not talking about earthquakes and rumors of war or the sea waves tossing to and fro. He was talking about what was likely revealed to him on the road to Emmaus, and that was the revealing of the Battle going on "behind the scenes". Jesus needs us to rest in Him and set our mind of things of the Sprit, not things of this world. For we need to really understand where the battle lays.. it lays in the form of deception and doubt and worry and fear, namely. We need more than ever to put on the Armor of Eph 6 and run that race set before us. I know a very wonderful devout Christian man who has died. He died before the 2nd Coming. Wow. So what makes me better than that man to escape anything? That man struggled more than I ever have or will. He just happened to have died BEFORE the Lord's Appearing. Just because I was born later than he, that makes me worthy of escape? I really don't want to maintain that stance. Is it not better to say Lord, whatever your Will, than to EXPECT mercy? I expect nothing. So sorry if these words seem hurtful. We MUST be prepared like a Good Army for seeing things we were told we would "not be here for". As a Christ-follower, He keeps me from Wrath, but trials and tribulations and temptation? How does anyone know what we are to experience or not experience? I apologize for ranting. Now, there is also one thing that I read in the scriptures and what holds me to account in this repentance of self and turning to His Rest (He be my Shepherd and I need nothing else): Heb 12:1Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
7It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.
*****22But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.*****
And this, from the lips of the Man of God Himself BEFORE He hung on the cross, so His TIME is not the same as our understanding of time: 33“These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.” The word for tribulation in His word is the same word in the Matt 24 verse..
But here is our Hope and why we are never going to experience His wrath, which is reserved for those who have already not believed... 1Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. 3For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.
April 3rd seems like a real fulfillment of this: 1Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous, seven angels who had seven plagues, which are the last, because in them the wrath of God is finished.
I am about as excited about this conjunction in the Heavens as I was on Sept 23, 2017. Not because it means rapture, but directs us to John's vision found IN CHAPTER 15 of Revelation.. I was told the church was out of here after ch 4:1...of the Book about what it looks like when Jesus is Revealed.. it will be sweet sweet music.. hark the herald angels sing.. Glory to the 2nd Coming King and His saints this time too! according to Paul... very soon everyone! very soon!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2020 0:41:36 GMT -6
I hope you don't include this social media site? We don't have a lot of rules here as we want conversation to be open to possible interpretations of prophecy, since no one can be "correct" in interpretation until it actually happens. Replacement Theology disregards the literal interpretation of scripture, allegorize where it is not necessary. We cover this in Rule 1No, I was referencing activity on Twitter. I was really struck by the timing of people claiming prophecy had already happened, and there is no Rapture. I was thinking about how awful that would sound if I were a new Believer with fragile understanding. I feel like it's a form of mockery, to be honest. Not just disbelief.
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Post by mike on Mar 31, 2020 6:30:44 GMT -6
boymaker I see! Thanks for clearing that. There are currently and will continue to be mockers, both in the church and out. Often makes me wonder who is in the church and not. I wholeheartedly agree with you barbiosheepgirl about the time we live in compared to those who have gone on before us. I do consider one thing though, in Esther 4:14 it appears God raised up the queen to be in that position perfectly. We certainly do not know the plans God has in store, but He is sovereign for certain. I do not know if being alive at the rapture or not means those who are alive are any different than those before but can say "God chose those still alive to remain". Alternatively I can say that God chose not those who have gone on before (to remain to the DAY). If He chooses me to remain, then it is His pleasure to do so. He will have a work and plan for me to be used by Him, not for my glory but His. Should He chose me to not remain, then it is His perfect will. Either way those left at His coming and those who have passed will rise together as promised.
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