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Post by boraddict on Jan 4, 2020 16:26:05 GMT -6
We have the Chapter 12 sign in Rev. 12:1-2 that occurred in heaven on 23 Sept. 2017.
Next, in Rev. 12:4 are the stars that are cast unto the earth. These stars come from the second beast at Rev. 13:13 and they are weapons of war. Additionally, those involved in casting those stars are found in Rev. 12:3.
Please consider Verses 12:3-4 in their chiasmus form as follows:
1) And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems.
2) His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth.
3) And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she bore her child he might devour it.
Notice that the goal of the dragon (item 1) is to devour the child (item 3) and the stars that are weapons of war (item 2) are simply tools that are used for that end purpose. However, the emphasis of the chiasmus is the weapons of war and this is the next thing that we will see from heaven above. That is, the dragon with the seven heads and ten horns are here upon the earth and not found in the stars above. Thus, in chronological order is:
1) the chapter 12 sign on 23 Sept. 2017
2) the dragon with his heads and horns
3) the weapons of war coming down upon the earth
4) Then we have the rapture at Rev. 12:5-6
5) the war with the dragon at Rev. 12:7-13
6) the rescue of the Rev. 13:7 saints (those who remain) at Rev. 12:14
7) the dragon searches to destroy saints at Rev. 12:15-17
So it appears that while the rapture is at item 4 and this is the beginning of the seven years, the remaining saints are rescued after the war at item 6.
Thus, following the great sign (Rev. 12:1-2) the dragon brought together his group (Rev. 12:3) and they will soon cause the destruction upon the earth (Rev. 12:4). This is followed by the rapture (Rev. 12:5-6) and the great war (Rev. 12:7-13). Lastly, with 3.5 years remaining, the saints are gathered from throughout the earth (Rev. 12:14) while Satan searches to destroy them (Rev. 12:15-17).
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Post by sog on Jan 4, 2020 21:15:34 GMT -6
boraddict, This is more or less how I see it. However, do you think this could indicate that the 70th week or the first 3.5 years have started at the Rev 12 sign? Is it enough that the peace plan has been revealed, though not finished? Is it enough that Ezekiel 38 has started, but not finished? Damascus mostly destroyed, but not totally? I don't think so yet, but it's possible. Those are 3 things I wrestle with in my mind as to the timing of the tribulation and Great Tribulation. Interesting to me that your item 4) is halfway(read 3.5 years) between the 7) points (read 7 years) you've laid out. If we already are in the first 3.5 years, then April of 2021 would seem a very high watch time for Rapture, if a mid-trib/Pre-wrath Rapture is correct. If not then, then 2024 could be another. That is if the Rev 12 sign in 2017 was any kind of marker and has any meaning in the timing, and thus the 7 years of feast and 7 years of famine theory carries any weight. Also 2024 being the year that the second rare solar eclipse crosses America completing the giant cross or "X" across the continental United States. 2024 would then indicate a pre-trib Rapture to me. Those are the 2 main years I guess I'm looking to at this point. There is another, but that is further out than I care to think about at this point.
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Post by boraddict on Jan 5, 2020 1:03:13 GMT -6
We know that the first "sign" that is the great sign (Rev. 12:1-2) is dated 23 Sept. 2017. In association with that great sign is the second "sign" that is the dragon and his horns/heads (Rev. 12:3); and these cause the stars to fall (Rev. 12:4).
Thus, the 1st and 2nd signs exist at the same time; meaning, that at the time of the great sign the dragon and his horns/heads already exist. Then they cause stars to fall that are weapons of war as referenced in Rev. 13:13 and then the rapture takes place. Thus, the attack by the dragon and subsequent rapture is the beginning of the seven years.
The amount of time between the great sign (Rev. 12:1) and the weapons of war falling as stars fall (Rev. 12:4) is the question at hand. Nevertheless, Rev. 12:6 states that the saints are enraptured and this begins the 3.5 years. Thus, the 3.5 years do not start with the great sign but when the stars (weapons) fall and saints enraptured.
It seems that the great sign is the call for the saints to take notice as referenced in the parable of the ten virgins at Matt. 25:6. Secondly, a call is mentioned at Rev. 18:4 after Babylon has fallen that corresponds to the saints meeting the bridegroom in Matt. 25:10. Thus, it seems that the stars falling from heaven (Rev. 12:4) corresponds to the fall of Babylon in Chapter 17 prior to the rapture in Verse 18:4. That is, the beast eating the flesh of the whore (Rev. 17:16) is the fall of Babylon and the rapture follows.
Thus the following timeline seems correct:
1) the great sign (the dragon and beast exist here), Verses 12:1-3 corresponding to Matt. 25:6. Notice in the parable that the call is at "midnight" that is reasonably the time of night to go out and view the great sign on 9/23/17.
2) the stars fall (Babylon falls), Verses 12:4 corresponding to Verse 17:16 and Matt. 25:7-9
3) the rapture, Verses 12:5-6 corresponding to Verse 18:4 / Matt. 25:10. This appears to be Rev. 19:1-10 and the first 3.5 years
4) the war, Verses 12:7-13, in Chapter 12 the war upon the earth is shown in terms of a war in heaven that is similar (a simile). This appears to be Rev. 19:11-21.
5) saints gathered from the earth, Verse 12:14, the saints that did not answer to the call above. This appears to be Chapter 15 with the saints gathered at Rev. 15:2 and the beast destroyed. The second 3.5 years
6) the dragon tries to destroy any saints upon the earth Verses 12:15-17. This is the war upon the earth during the last 3.5 years. Small civil wars all over the planet and building to Armageddon in Chapter 16.
7) the end at Rev. 16:17-21.
Thus, it may be the case that the great sign (Verse 12:1) is the call of God to the saints to get ready. Those whom are not ready will have to wait 3.5 years (after the rapture 12:5-6 and great war 12:7-13) to be gathered as noted in Verse 12:14.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2020 19:02:23 GMT -6
Thus, it may be the case that the great sign (Verse 12:1) is the call of God to the saints to get ready. Those whom are not ready will have to wait 3.5 years (after the rapture 12:5-6 and great war 12:7-13) to be gathered as noted in Verse 12:14. How do you define "ready"? As in looking for the Rapture, or not yet in Christ? |
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Post by boraddict on Feb 1, 2020 21:42:54 GMT -6
Thus, it may be the case that the great sign (Verse 12:1) is the call of God to the saints to get ready. Those whom are not ready will have to wait 3.5 years (after the rapture 12:5-6 and great war 12:7-13) to be gathered as noted in Verse 12:14. How do you define "ready"? As in looking for the Rapture, or not yet in Christ? Thank you for your posting and I should have explained myself better. The best example that I can give is that when my mother was dying I told her to stay close to Jesus. I live in Idaho and she was in a Kansas City hospital. My aunt had called me and then placed her cellphone so that my mother could hear my words. My mom tried to speak but could not. I simply said, "Stay close to Jesus and you will pass over into his loving arms." That is what it takes to be ready: to stay close to Jesus. However, I think that the vast majority of those who call themselves Christians are not ready to step off with their faith in Jesus; to blindly hold to the Savior. No, I think most will doubt their belief in one way or another. To be ready is to have an unbending belief in Jesus Christ. If there is the slightest doubt then they are not ready. |
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Post by Natalie on Feb 1, 2020 21:55:39 GMT -6
1 Thes 5:1-11 Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you. For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief. For you are all children of light, children of the day. We are not of the night or of the darkness. So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, are drunk at night. But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation. For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him. Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing.
The word Paul uses for sleep is one that basically means "indifferent to one's salvation". They believe in Jesus, but they aren't watching, aren't studying, don't see the signs, maybe they are holding on to some sin they need to repent of, whatever if means in their life to be indifferent. But, according to this passage whether one is "awake" or "asleep" they will go in the rapture. That should wake them up, huh?  |
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