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Post by kjs on Dec 21, 2019 10:19:39 GMT -6
This article discusses the need to have Trump removed from office.
{If there is another thread going on this topic -- pointed out to me and I will move this thread over to that one}
Read The Article (if you have not already)
There are several very valid points made within the article.
I Know, there will be many -- who read the title of the article and simply start ranting and raging (most likely without even reading the article). To those who do this -- I will not even respond to those comments. After all, if those who simply allow a TITLE to make up their viewpoint without first validating what is being said -- then I feel you are traveling this world with BLINDERS on and will only see what your wish to see and nothing more.
If you read this well laid out article -- you will discover there are SEVERAL points that are very valid (in my opinion) -- If you wish to challenge one of those points then by all means add your comments challenging one of the points and why you feel the point should not be used to criticize the President.
Since the time of President Clinton (when I first started paying attention to politics).
I have voiced many criticisms of different Presidents -- whether that be Clinton, Bush, Obama, or now Trump)
As the article points out -- it is time to call out the ACTIONS (and whether they be immoral or moral) -- and not simply cast support or Non-support because someone represents a particular party (Republican, Democrat).
I KNOW AS A FACT -- IF Obama had done what TRUMP has done (AND FACE IT Trump has admitted on Video that He did indeed "twist some arms") .... then Republicans would have been screaming bloody murder -- and announcing they wish to string him up.
Trump's actions (and they have been proved and admitted to by Trump) -- are immoral.
I gave Trump a pass on the Muller report -- because there were too many unresolved issues and the "waters were to muddy to see clearly" -- on whether the charges were valid or not.
BUT NOW ... with the evidence clearly pointing to what happen (AND EVEN FOX NEWS has stated that Trump is in the wrong) --- this is a clear example that Party politics has ruined even civil discourse in this country and this time it is the Republicans that are in the wrong...
SAYING they will not even review the charges or witnesses -- but completely exonerate him cause he is a Republican -- see articles from Addison Mitchell McConnell Jr. and Lindsey Olin Graham -- plus several others
This rant is over for now -- President Trump is impeached for very valid reasons and should be removed.
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Post by mike on Dec 21, 2019 14:39:28 GMT -6
KJ my opinion is that because Trump has supported Israel many "evangelicals" are willing to overlook his shortcomings (morally).
I will say this... Not one of us is morally pure and for those in media and politics to act as if we are is where the hypocrisy lies.
If you ran a business and were giving away money for absolutely nothing, dont you feel that you had the 'right' to request that recipient investigate an issue and if thst recipient refused to comply, begin to wothhold that funding or stop altogether?
Now i realize there was a congressional approval of the funds to Urkraine so consent should have at least been sought.
This is a balancing act and clearly partisan nonesense from both ends.
Consider what Biden recently said about Israel (cant find the clip at the moment) and witholding funding from them until they give up land to Palestine. Is that comparable? As a Presidential candidate is that ok?
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Post by kjs on Dec 21, 2019 15:34:53 GMT -6
KJ my opinion is that because Trump has supported Israel many "evangelicals" are willing to overlook his shortcomings (morally). I will say this... Not one of us is morally pure and for those in media and politics to act as if we are is where the hypocrisy lies. If you ran a business and were giving away money for absolutely nothing, dont you feel that you had the 'right' to request that recipient investigate an issue and if thst recipient refused to comply, begin to wothhold that funding or stop altogether? Now i realize there was a congressional approval of the funds to Urkraine so consent should have at least been sought. This is a balancing act and clearly partisan nonesense from both ends. Consider what Biden recently said about Israel (cant find the clip at the moment) and witholding funding from them until they give up land to Palestine. Is that comparable? As a Presidential candidate is that ok? As you point out and I freely agree -- that there is NOT one complete moral (or upstanding person) among us. I do not even list President Trumps other "shortcomings" like the Lies, Slander, Paying women to get quite about sexual escapades.....
Now your question revolves around a hypothetical question -- namely if I had business dealings with another business and I was worried about some aspect of said business -- would I not want to have the concern investigated. Sure if I would say in such a scenario -- please investigate the concern before I commit the money.
However, The Purse String Holders (Ie Congress) already approved the FUNDS for Ukraine..... Trump by his own admission (plus several witnesses) DENIED ALREADY APPROVED MONEY -- (The Famous ARM TWISTING Quote by Trump)
That Ukraine publicly announce an investigation of the son of Joe Biden --- for a possible wrong doing (which one witness already confirmed the rumored of said "failing" was FALSE - and it appears the President Knew it was a False Rumor -- of course no actual proof he knew it was False)
So it appears the actual investigation was not even required by Trump -- Simply an agreement to make a public announcement of an open investigation..... and the funds were denied until said announcement......
So do you really want to suggest your hypothetical question --- of a public announcement -- for the withholding of FUNDS ---for opening investigation....
I will even agree with you there (possible case) of simply making announcement of said new investigation regardless of finding of said investigation.
BUT WHERE I STRONGLY DISAGREE -- is of Secretly trying to "arm twist" withholding the funds until the announcement was made.
I seem to recall President Trump PROMISING to clean up the "SWAMP IN DC" -- by being Transparent -- being upfront about everything......
Really -- what is so Transparent in this scenario? MAKING A SECRET DEAL with a foreign country to make an announcement (note: nothing about producing results) to grant them already approved money.
Congress approved the money with NO STRINGS -- WHY Does President Trump have the "right" to add STRINGS --- and those attached strings are behind closed doors and a Secret from the media -- and congress?
As far as your "Biden" missing Tape -- Have not heard about it but if HE DID insist that Israel as President (I will even grant as VP) -- said such and such approved money will NOT be given until you give me "dirt" on a political rival -- then Yes -- He too should be brought up on charges...
But I believe Biden simply made a comment as a public citizen saying -- such and such should happen for those residing within the state of Israel A very far cry from demanding an investigation into a political dirt.....
NO, Watch or read the Testimony (and this testimony was given by TRUMP APPOINTEES (not some hacks out to get him).......
Trump really DID the crime -- and should be removed.......
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Post by boraddict on Dec 21, 2019 16:52:38 GMT -6
I find it necessary to explain to my son (23) that neither the republicans nor the democrats are correct. For example the republicans want unrestrained capitalism and the democrats want unrestrained socialism. Consequently, we need both political parties to keep each other in check.
Naturally the better social model is to follow the Savior in all things; however, neither political party nor the population of the world is willing to do that.
In my opinion "the article" of this thread is silly: to weigh-in in support of the democrats impeachment.
The war between these two groups will continue and in my opinion become a shooting war of which I do not want to participate. Let them fight it out; I am following Christ.
Further, the republicans are right with regard to abortion (politics removed) and the democrats are right with regard to caring for the poor (politics removed). That is, Christ teaches that abortion is wrong and that caring for the poor is right. If the democrats had their way all babies would be subject to abortion and if the republicans had their way all the poor would be on the street for not making enough money.
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Post by mike on Dec 23, 2019 9:42:02 GMT -6
kjs - this might be the content of the clip I saw and as I noted I couldnt remember it exactly. So much so that it seems it wasnt Biden but likely Sanders. In any event what struck me when I heard it was "this for that". At the time the buzz was Quid Pro Quo and this article seems to be exactly that. Of course this is 3-5 minute read and the clip I saw was even less (maybe 1 minute). Contextually perhaps this was not as detailed as what we are witnessing now. In any event my opinion of politics is that none are following the ways of the Lord to a "T" and most do what is right in the sight of the people. I simply hold to Dan 2:21 for my view on this as I don't know the reason why God raises up some and not others. I was no fan of the past President as he promoted the highly abominable practices of same sex marriage, abortion and failed to name our Creator in many speeches among other travesties (Fast & Furious, Benghazi) - yet he was chosen by God and remained all 8 years, Trump may be end up the same way. We shall see
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Post by boraddict on Dec 23, 2019 14:13:06 GMT -6
Interestingly, God can see "the end" through his infinite foresight abilities. So he knows all that is going to happen and has designed a plan to fit his end objective. Secondly, we get to participate in his plan through our association with him. Those individuals whom do not associate with him will also participate in his plan to one degree or another. We however can modify his plan in our lives through prayer, in as much as he deems appropriate. For instance, as I recall, someone (a prophet perhaps) called upon God to make the sun stand still in the sky so that a battle could be concluded on a particular day. Actually, I spent several days (30 years ago) trying to understand the physics of how that was possible and solved the mystery. So God made the sun stand still in the sky in response to that individuals prayer request.
I have visited with the Savior on several occasions in visionary dreams. Also, a few years ago someone told me that the Savior was coming and then several months after that vision I was miraculously protected from sure destruction. That was a powerful experience for me; to be told and shown in vision then to have that protection from the Savior. If I had not been prayerful then my life would have changed for the worst that day. However, the Savior did protect me in that circumstance; and I have an eternal hope that he will continue to provide me and my family with those wonderful blessings.
Once my aunt told me that she was suffering (cancer) and believed that her plight would benefit others. I was surprised that she understood that doctrine.
So why do some presidents preside over our nation? Because it is the will of God but similarly it is the people. If we as a nation prayed together then we could protect our country from evil influences and the same is true for the entire world. But we do not as a nation stand with God. So, we are turned over to the buffetings of Satan as we follow God's plan as a nation. Back and forth we go as a drunken man trying to walk but only stumbling along the path to our sure destruction.
But the Savior calls to us as noted in Isaiah 1:16-20 to stop our course and follow him. But the nation and the world will not but continue toward destruction. So, God's plan will stay as it always has been but we as individuals can call upon his holy name and be protected.
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Post by venge on Dec 25, 2019 10:53:26 GMT -6
I was not going to reply, as I haven't in over 1.5 months, but I think of this message every time I think of the Christian community with Trump. The bramble is Trump. The wicked man that believers caused to reign. We may get policy done that we like, and we may get other things done that we agree with and at what cost? Putting a heavy yoke on our neighbors, making fun of the handicap and poor and a laundry list more things many turn a blind eye to in order to get what they want and setup the bramble. The Jews made "Abimelech, the son of his maidservant, king over the men of Shechem, because he is your brother", but we have made Trump, the President of the USA, because he said he would do things for people of faith. God does set up kings, but for his purpose, not our purpose. Heathen kings are setup and they are also abased and brought low. Here is a difficult question: Is it better to vote for a man that is a bramble to receive the things you want from him; knowing that God is in control, not man and that we need to put all our trust in him to do things. Or, is it better not to vote for a bramble, knowing that God is in control, who is king and will reign on earth. If our citizenship is in heaven, why do many hold to the things on earth? Can you change them? Or does God do this? Do you setup a king or does God? If your citizenship is in heaven, do you live like a foreigner in the world or its permanent resident from birth? The Christianity Today article made many offended by it as if their own brothers/sisters in Christ were against each other. How dare others of faith go against Trump? How dare those of Faith vote for Trump again. I think the best thing to do in the next election is to pray about it, and read what the Jews did when they had good leaders over them and bad leaders over them, regardless of what the Pharisee's got out of it. Because Trump could be here to not do good for us (as many believe he has), but perhaps its down the line to cause hurt to us to change us. Only time will tell. Merry Christmas to the saints in Christ, blessed Jesus whose birthday we celebrate with love, peace, joy, kindness and faithfulness. EDIT: I was curious to see if anyone else had understood it as I did, after a quick google search, I came across an article in 2016 called "What does God think of Donald trump???"
In it, the author mentions similar things as I see it. Regarding the bramble bush and the trees that ask him to reign over them, his opinion is:
If interested, you can read the article here: buildinghishouse.org/prophecy/trump.shtml
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Post by mike on Jan 5, 2020 20:36:35 GMT -6
kjs - i wanted to get your take on two things 1. How do you feel about Pelosi witholding the articles? Why the delay? 2. This is not the clip i was referring to but came across this "bribery" by Biden/Obama. Isnt this the same? Start at 5:08
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2020 19:32:38 GMT -6
I'm not sure this aged well.
I think Trump is the man for the day and that God is in control.
I don't care about Trump's sordid history. It likely isn't any worse than other wealthy celebrities.
The alternative was Hillary or Bernie. Only one of them is pro-Israel, pro-life, pro-American worker, pro-borders, etc. As a resident of AZ, where Mexico is 4 hours from my front door, I want borders.
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