Post by rondonmonson on Dec 17, 2019 17:12:48 GMT -6
“Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.” V.1-2
Pretty straight forward here. We all know that Jesus was referring to the destruction of the physical Temple.
“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.” V. 3-14
Again, straight forward. This has been happening for the last two thousand years. Notice they didn't ask Him about the rapture. Why? Because they didn't have a clue about it yet. Otherwise, I think they would have been asking.
I tried researching the word “they” in verse 9, but to no avail other than a general ‘someone’ doing the handing over, but I think this might, in part, refer to WW2 and prior when the Jews were delivered up to tribulation and put to death en masse. I think most references to this talk about Christians, which may be, but Israel is God’s chosen nation, so while the general population of the world may not make the connection, I’m convinced the attempt to exterminate the Jews was inspired by the devil or devils and is what Jesus eluded to. Which is why I looked into who “they” were.
““So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand. So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.” V. 15-28
We’re all waiting on pins and needles for this, right? One thing that piques my interest here is that our very Creator said in verse 20, “Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath.” I take that to mean it could happen in winter or on a Sabbath! Also meaning it’s not set on a certain date of the calendar. This is the beginning of the Great Tribulation, as verse 21 shows, but those days are cut short for the sake of the elect. Wait! What elect? The rapture was supposed to happen before the AoD happened, right? Yes, I believe so. So these must be ‘tribulation saints’ who are also called ‘elect’.
So what happens that these days need to be cut short? Why would no human survive?
““Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” V. 29-31
We have seen the sun darkened by eclipses and, actually, at the same time, the moon does not give its light, but, if we take this into the context of verses 20-22, I would be inclined to suggest global thermonuclear war. That, in fact, would be something that humans, as well as most living creatures, would not survive. And, like on an overcast day, the sun is darkened by the clouds that would envelope the Earth, and the moon would not give its light. Ephesians 6:12 tells us about the spiritual powers that inhabit the heavenly realm (the sky above us) and, I believe verse 29 tells us when their power over the world is ended. In fact, I think the only one who could stop the powerful destruction unleashed on the Earth would be Jesus Christ! And wouldn't that show all humanity just a taste of His power? I mean, we (humanity in general) already don't give Him credit for creating the universe.
“Then will appear in heaven (the sky above us) the sign of the Son of Man”. What sign? Verse 27, “For as the lightning comes from the East and shines as far as the West, so will be the coming of the Son of Man”. Then ‘they’, the tribes of the Earth, will see Him coming!! YAY!!
Then with a loud trumpet call, His angels will gather the elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. This is another “wait, what??” moment. I think this is referring to the raptured saints, but is the trumpet call the same as the ‘last trump’? Could be, as we would all be ascending to Him as He descends to the Earth. We will be all over the Earth, ‘one end of heaven to the other’. Or are we already ascended/raptured, waiting to meet Him, kind of just hanging out (in the spiritual rooms prepared) till He gets here? This could be as well, as there is the idea that we will be raptured before the AoD.
Anyway, those are my thoughts thus far. It’s the thing that there is still contention on ‘know one knows…’ but then there are the things that happened on God’s feast days and that it has been said that the rapture will occur on the Feast of Trumpets. Didn’t the Great Sign happen on the Feast of Trumpets? Wouldn’t that count as well? The fact that it is the only time we can calculate that it will ever happen is pretty significant, right? That leaves the Day of Atonement (Great Tribulation and return of Jesus Christ the King?) and the Feast of Tabernacles (the seventh millennium?)
1. In verses 1 and 2 Jesus tells them about the Temple, in verse 3 the Disciples ask the Three Questions, the first is about the Temple and when will these things be, the other two are of course like Mike stated, about sign of his coming and the End of the Age. Verses 4-6 is Jesus explaining WHEN the Temple is destroyed. Not the results per se, or the actions, but hes answering the questions the disciples asked, when !!
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you{Disciples}. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars {70 AD Event}: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
I see this as Jesus telling the Disciples about WHEN the Temple he spoke about will be destroyed. He tells them not to be deceived, men will say I am the Christ/Messiah whom the Pharisees and Jews saw as a political savior, not the son of God per se. This fulfills the John 5:43 verse where Jesus tells the Pharisees that they wouldn't accept him, who came in the Father's name, but would accept another who came in his own name. No doubt, the Pharisees were learned men, we know they understood that Rome was the Fourth Beast, they just had no idea of the coming 2000 some odd year Church. So they, knowing Rome was the Fourth Beast, no doubt put forth possible leaders as christ to save them from Rome just before the 70 AD event. Thus these fake christs deceived many, Jesus warns the disciples not to be deceived here, I think it was very important for him to make sure they understood if they came back to Jerusalem at this time, they would probably be killed by the Romans. Thus he tells them, you will hear of wars {from afar} and rumors of wars, but don't be troubled, for all these things must pass, the end is NOT YET. Or as another Gospel states,is BY AND BY. So the 70 AD event that looked like the Zechariah 14 event is not the end, that is by and by. So I think Jesus gave them the WHEN here in verses 4-6.
2. Its true that they do not ask Jesus about the Rapture, but one of the questions was about his coming and the end of the Age. His coming for the Elect Jews who repent after the Rapture {the 1/3 who repent in Zechariah 13:8-9} and his coming for the Elect Jews who are in Christ before the Rapture both must needs be answered. So in verses 29-31 we get the Second Coming and in verses 36-51 we see the Rapture even though Jesus doesn't specifically give them the details like he did Paul, he still cites the Rapture events to tell them of his Coming.
I think the "THEY" just means those that hate God and thus deliver the Disciples up to be killed {all but John it seems dies a Martyr}. The Disciples are specifically being spoken of here so we know this was still the first century Jesus was speaking of as per who would be killed. In verses 7 however, the Birth Pangs represent a panoramic view of the whole Church Age via all the Wars, Famine, Earthquakes etc. etc. over a 2000 some odd year period. Its the pangs of this "SORROW" that eventually births the 70th week of tribulation.
3. Exactly, after the Rapture, we see the AoD, verse 15 is the first verse in Matt. 24 that is about the 70th week, all the other verses before that are about the Church Age period. These are the very Elect, those Jews who Repent after the Rapture but Flee to Petra. When Jesus states the time will be cut short, he is speaking about his and the Fathers original 7 year plan for the 70th week. If God had planned it for 8 years or 10 years none of the elect would have survived, so God's original plan, since He of course knows all, was for 7 years. In other words when Jesus returns at the Second Coming, that supernaturally thwarts all of Satan's plans. God doesn't have to rework his original plans, but Jesus being sent back, no doubt cuts the Beasts/Satan's plans off before he can kill everyone in the world.
4. In this instance Jesus is referring to the 6th Seal Sign. The Generation that sees this LAST SIGN, will be the Generation that sees the Coming of the Lord. The events described here in verses 29-31 is the Second Coming where the Church returns with Christ on White horses.
