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Post by boraddict on Nov 9, 2019 9:05:10 GMT -6
Sorry about the back-tracking in my previous posting to make a correction in the analysis. So in this posting I would like to call your attention to the past and present tense in each of the seven seals as well as the present and future tenses of each of the parenthetical chapters. So beginning with the 1st seal as follows: I) 1st seal Rev. 6:1, John in vision (present tense) sees Jesus as he opened (past tense) the 1st seal as stated in Rev. 5:5. Then, John hears (present tense) one of the four beasts say "Come and see" (present tense). So, from hereon I will just say "past," or "present," or "future" for each of the tense settings. Also, I am listing each of John's viewings of the seals as "present" although he listed them as "past"; because, I am connecting the present setting of each seal to the present setting of each parenthetical chapter. That is, I am listing John's viewings of the seals as "present tense" as if he was writing about each seal as he was seeing the seal in vision; as he is also seeing the parenthetical chapters in vision. Hopefully this strategy will become clear as we progress through the seals. Rev. 6:2, 1) John sees in vision (as I said, John wrote in past tense but I am showing his vision in present tense), a white horse with a rider and this is Lord Jesus (see Rev. 19:11 where Jesus is the rider of the white horse). 2) The Savior that is the rider of the white horse has a bow. The tense setting of this verse segment is either past or present and both are applicable. So I am going with the present tense because the Savior to this day has a bow. John also mentions that a crown was given to the Savior and this is clearly past tense either before, during, or after his mortality. Therefore, the Savior has a bow and a crown was given to him perhaps immediately after the crucifixion as alluded to in Rev. 5:6. I spent a considerable amount of time trying to understand this verse segment and it seems that the overall jest is past tense as John is seeing the vision. 3) The Savior then went forth conquering; and from John's perspective the Savior conquered sin and death etc. (see Rev. 5:5-6). Thus, the previous verse segment is supported here in item number 3 as referencing the Savior in mortality. 4) Then, the Savior went forth to conquer after his mortal experience (present and future tense) From what I can see there is no parenthetical chapter associated with the 1st seal except to say that in Chapter 19 the Savior does go forth to conquer albeit in the 7th seal. II) 2nd seal Rev. 6:3, Again John sees (present) as Jesus opened (past) one of the seals (Rev. 5:5), and a beast says "come and see" (KJV) (present). Rev. 6:4, Now we have the red horse that links to the red dragon (Rev. 12:3) and power (from God) was given to him. Additionally, the dragon was given a great sward that is the beast of Chapter 13. Hopefully you can see that this is present tense as John is seeing the vision of the 2nd seal. I mean, there is a type and shadow element to this verse but the primary emphasis appears to be "the end times" and not 2,000 years ago. Yet, power was also given to the dragon in the past, and that creates the type (the Roman empire) for the shadow (the end times beast) to follow. So, in reality the dragon had a beast in the Roman government and that is "a type" for the dragon having a beast here in the end times; however, the primary emphasis of the verse is "the end times beast" (the great sward) that comes from the dragon (v. 6:4). The association between Verses 6:4 and 12:3 is very good that the rider of the red horse is the red dragon in contrast to the rider of the white horse being the Savior as shown in Verses 6:2, 19:11. Now for the connection to Chapter 13 that follows the rider of the red horse (Rev. 6:4) that is the red dragon (Rev. 12:3); and he has a great sward that is the beast of Rev. 13:1. The beast rises here at the 2nd seal due to the reference of the great sward in Verse 6:4. However, the power is not given the beast until Rev. 6:8. Thus, Chapter 13 spans from Verse 6:4 and through Verse 6:8. However, from the perspective of the 2nd seal here at Verse 6:4, the beast rises (present) but the remainder of Chapter 13 is "future." That is, the only part of Chapter 13 is in the 2nd seal (v. 13:1) and the remainder of Chapter 13 is in the 4th seal. Yet, Chapter 13 must be said to be in the 2nd seal because Verse 13:1 is present tense and in line with the present tense of the 2nd seal; and from the perspective of the 2nd seal, the remainder of Chapter 13 is future tense as follows: 2nd seal at Rev. 6:4 corresponds to Rev. 12:3-4 and Chapter 13 (Rev. 13:1 (present, in the 2nd seal), Rev. 13:2-18 (future, in the 4th seal)) Note: Chapter 7 also begins here in the 2nd seal as follows: Rev. 7:1-3 (present), Rev. 7:4-17 (future, with Verses 7:4-14 in the 3rd seal and Verses 7:15-17 extending past the 7th seal) III) 3rd seal Okay, on to the black horse and the rider thereof is Michael (Rev. 6:5). I previously explained how I made this connection so please refer back to a previous posing for this information. Michael is tasked with protecting the saints of God and this is metaphorically stated in Rev. 6:6. So we have in Verse 6:5 John seeing in vision (present) as the Savior opened (past, Rev. 5:5) and John heard a beast (present) and saw the rider upon the black horse (present) having a pair of balances. Clearly Michael is calculating whom is going on the rapture and in the following verse (Rev. 6:6) as well as the corresponding verse (Rev. 12:6) the saints are taken. At this point my conclusion about the harmony between Chapters 6 and 12 should be gaining acceptance by the reader; or, at least so I hope. The parenthetical chapters associated with the 3rd seal are Chapters 7 and 14. Chapter 7 because the saints are gathered beginning at Rev. 7:4 and through to the end of that chapter (although the last three verses are future in its application to the 3rd seal), and Chapter 14 because Rev. 14:1-5 are present tense here at the 3rd seal. So I guess I need to back track and show Chapter 7 beginning in the 2nd seal and will make a note of that (above) now. Also, Rev. 14:7-20 are in seals 4 through 7 with only Rev. 14:6 in question. This verse links to Rev. 8:13 with an emphasis upon the three woes. Therefore, the next seal that is the 4th includes the 1st of the 3 woes; because, Verses 14:1-5 are in the 3rd seal and the events of Chapter 14 are chronological. I would like to say at this point that Rev. 14:6 that links to Rev. 8:13 are more effective considered to be bridge verses. Not really in the 3rd seal and not in the 4th; they kind of exist between these two seals. Wow, it is getting complex and my head is going to explode. IV) 4th seal Okay, back to Chapter 14 at Rev. 14:7. Since Rev. 14:8 tells us that Babylon is fallen linking this verse to Chapter 18, then Rev. 14:7 links to Chapter 17. I hope you are smiling; because, this means that Chapters 17 and 18 are in the 4th seal. Let me show this another way. The 4th seal begins at Rev. 6:8 wherein the rider of the pale horse is the beast of Chapter 13 (explained above and in previous postings). Since the beast arose in the 2nd seal above (Rev. 6:4) at Rev. 13:1, and Rev. 13:2-18 were future in that seal to be applied here in the 4th seal, and the power was given to the beast here in the 4th seal at Rev. 13:2, then the sister chapter to Chapter 13 that is Chapter 17 applies here in the 4th seal. Since Chapter 17 applies to the 4th seal then Chapter 18 that follows chronologically applies here as well. Sorry about that but it means that Babylon falls here in the 4th seal. You know, Rev. 14:7 "Babylon is fallen" and Rev. 18:1 "Babylon is fallen"; therefore, Babylon falls in Rev. 14:6 and Rev. 17:16-17. However, easier stated, Babylon falls in Chapter 17 and the aftermath of that fall is stated in Chapter 18. Thus, the formal war between good and evil begin at the 4th seal in Rev. 6:8 and since the next verse in Chapter 12 pertains to the war in heaven that is a type of the end times war then Rev. 12:7-11 are in the 4th seal. So the verses of the 4th seal go something like: 4th seal, Rev. 6:8 that by the way links to Rev. 18:8 showing that Chapter 18 is in the 4th seal, Chapter 17 that chronologically precedes Chapter 18, as well as Chapter 13 that is a sister chapter to Chapter 17. Then we have as stated above Rev. 14:8 that links to Chapter 18 and the chronological verse Rev. 14:7 that links to Chapter 17 as also stated above. Then we have the preparatory Verse Rev. 14:6 that links to Rev. 8:13 that precedes the three woes showing that the first woe of Chapter 9 is in the 4th seal. That is just to much information and my head spins. So one thing that has always bothered me about the break between the 7th seal in Chapter 8 and the three woes in Chapter 9 is the four angels that are told to wait (Rev. 7:1-3) in the 2nd seal as stated above. I mean, the four angels are told to wait in Chapter 7 and then we see them conducting an action here in Chapter 8. So stepping step back just a moment to find the solution to the problem, please notice that Rev. 14:18 wherein the angel has power over fire links to Rev. 8:5 showing that Verse 14:18 is in the 7th seal; because, Rev. 8:5 flows from Rev. 8:1 wherein the 7th seal began. Therefore, Rev. 14:18-20 are in the 7th seal. Now working backwards from Verse 14:18, Rev. 14:17 would be in the 6th seal that corresponds to Rev. 6:12, and then Rev. 14:14-16 would be in the 5th seal that corresponds to Rev. 6:9-11. Further, since Verses 6:9-11 link to Rev. 8:3 showing that this verse is in the 5th seal, then Rev. 8:4 is in the 6th seal. This means that the tense of Chapter 8 is as follows: 7th seal, Rev. 8:1-2 present tense, Rev. 8:3-4 past tense, Rev. 8:5-12 present tense, Rev. 8:13 past tense. Therefore, from the perspective of John viewing the 7th seal as stated in Chapter 8, Rev. 8:13 being past tense sits between the 3rd and 4th seals as I have explained above. As a result, the first woe of Chapter 9 is in the 4th seal. In conclusion of the 4th seal, the parenthetical chapters that apply are the 1st woe of Chapter 9, the remainder of Chapter 13 (vv. 13:2-18) that came down from the 2nd seal, Chapter 14 at Verses 14:7-13, and Chapters 17 and 18 that have repetitive linking to Chapter 13. Lastly is the common connection between the 4th seal of Chapter 6 to the 4th seal (my opinion) of Chapter 12 at Rev. 6:8 and 12:7-11. Side Note: Rev. 19:1-10 are also in the 4th seal and this is explained in my work on the 5th seal.
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Post by boraddict on Nov 9, 2019 23:14:45 GMT -6
Okay, so I am almost done because four seals are finished and three remain. I am past the half way mark.
To me the 5th seal is like a mystery seal by comparison to the previous four. For example as follows:
1st seal, Lord Jesus came conquering and to conquer 2nd seal, the dragon is given power and the beast rises 3rd seal, Michael is tasked to protect the saints 4th seal, the beast destroys Babylon and takes control of the world
So look at it this way:
1st seal, good 2nd seal, bad 3rd seal, good 4th seal, bad
Thus, according to the order, the 5th seal should be good.
So we have Rev. 6:9 wherein the saints are under the altar as in having salvation and they have been slain. That is, John is viewing (present) Jesus in vision as he opened the seals (past at Rev. 5:5), and John sees the 5th seal wherein the saints are beneath the altar having been slain for their testimony. Naturally, the first verse that comes to mind is Rev. 8:3 due to the "altar" link, and as I have previously stated this verse is in the 5th seal. Ah, Chapter 8, you are the true enigma chapter of the book.
Okay, so let's approach this 5th seal another way. Please consider that Rev. 12:7-11 are in the 4th seal and Rev. 12:12 is in the 5th seal. Evidence to this is that Rev. 12:11 states that they (the saints of God) gave their lives (in the 4th seal at Rev. 13:7), for their testimony. That is, they gave their lives for their testimony in Christ. Thus, Rev. 12:11 precedes Rev. 6:9 in that they gave their lives in the 4th seal and are under the altar in the 5th seal. Consequently, Rev. 12:12 is in the 5th seal.
Now the 5th seal can move along smoothly that following the fall of Babylon in Chapter 17 that is 4th seal, and the aftermath of that fall in Chapter 18 that is also 4th seal, then comes (chronologically) Chapter 19 that is in the 5th seal. However, there is a small kink in this conclusion and it is explained below.
Supporting evidence for the above conclusion is that Rev. 19:11-21 is stated in Rev. 14:14-16. Further, it follows that since Babylon has fallen as stated in Rev. 14:8 and that verse links to Chapter 18 that is in the 4th seal, then Rev. 14:14-16 is in the 5th seal as is Rev. 19:11-21. Further, please consider Rev. 14:9-13 that are also in the 4th seal. Actually, I had not concluded until now that Rev. 14:13 was in the 4th seal; however, the reference to the dead in that verse links to the previously stated verses concerning those whom gave their lives in the 4th seal. Since Rev. 14:13 links to Rev. 19:9 and present tense to the 4th woe is suggested to exist at Rev. 14:13, then Rev. 19:1-10 has already taken place here in the 5th seal. That being after the fall of Babylon but before Christ's offensive in Rev. 19:11-21 at the 5th seal; and, this means that Verses 19:1-10 are in the 4th seal. So look at it this way; When Chapter 19 is viewed from the perspective of the 4th seal then Rev. 19:11-21 are future tense because these verses are 5th seal verses. So, I am going back to include Verses 19:1-10 in the 4th seal now.
So what is the 5th seal? It is Christ's Chapter 19 offensive to destroy the beast.
Post Script: I did forget to mention that the 1st woe in Chapter 9 that is a 4th seal reference is followed by the 2nd woe in Chapter 9 that is a 5th seal reference. Secondly, since the second woe is linked to Rev. 12:12 in the woe of that verse that is to "the inhabitants of the earth" (KJV) as well as the sea; and the sea is from which the beast came (Rev. 13:1); then the woe at Verse 12:12 is a woe to the beast whom destroyed Babylon in the 4th seal. Again this supports that Verse 12:12 is in the 5th seal and that Verse 12:12 is providing a reference (the woe) to the 2nd woe of Chapter 9.
However, a larger problem exists at Rev. 9:17-19 that links to Rev. 16:13 because it suggests that Verse 16:13 pertains to the 5th seal. Isn't there always something that messes up an analysis? Nevertheless, the second woe of Chapter 9 is in the 5th seal and this means that either the three false gods of Rev. 9:17-19 are present or future tense, and/or, the three false gods of Rev. 16:13 that is in the 6th seal is either past or present tense. So I will work on that problem when I work on the 6th seal.
Fourth; there exists a problem at Verses 10:1-11:13 of which some of the verses appear to belong in the 3rd seal. I need to work that further before I make a definitive analysis about these verses with respect their placement and the "tense" question.
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Post by boraddict on Nov 10, 2019 7:08:15 GMT -6
Okay, two seals remain to be done and I am now working on the 6th seal.
So after a couple of minutes of consideration I could understand a connection in Chapter 12 that helped isolate the 6th seal. Please consider that Rev. 12:12-13 is in the 5th seal and Rev. 12:14 is in the 6th seal. Thus, the 6th seal begins a 3.5 year period of time and this links to Rev. 11:2. I had previously considered that Rev. 11:2 linked to Rev. 12:6 but please disregard that idea.
So, we have the following:
1st seal, Lord Jesus conquering and conquers 2nd seal, the dragon arises his beast 3rd seal, the saints are protected and this begins the first half of the 7 years of tribulation (see Rev. 12:6). This is the formal rapture. 4th seal, Babylon falls 5th seal, the beast is destroyed 6th seal, the temple is built and this begins the second half of the 7 years of tribulation (see Rev. 12:14)
As you can see the key to the 6th seal is its placement in time. So what is it about the 6th seal? I mean, this seal has always caused me problems because at Rev. 6:12 in which this seal is mentioned and then the language of the verse goes right into the events of the 7th seal. Like:
1) The great earthquake and this is the clincher that Rev. 6:12 is about the 7th seal because the great earthquake happens at the ending of the seven years of tribulation as referenced in Rev. 11:19 and Rev. 16:19. I mean, wow, the great earthquake is the climax of the tribulation era wherein Christ gets serious about destruction. Prior to this event there is a constant effort to save souls. So, at Rev. 6:12 we are immediately at the ending of the seven years of tribulation and through to the end of Chapter 6. 2) The heavens departed as a scroll and the mountains departed out of their places (Rev. 6:14); again, this is the ending of the tribulation era at Rev. 16:20. From these two examples (1 & 2) it should be evident that Chapters 15 and 16 are seventh seal chapters. A side note: since Chapters 15 and 16 are 7th seal Chapters, then the four angels of Chapter 8 are present tense to the 7th seal in Chapter 8 and they are harmonious to the first four angels of Chapter 16. I will expand upon this in my work of the 7th seal. 3) Everyone hides themselves in dens and in the rocks of mountains (Rev. 6:15). Again, this is clear that this is the ending of the 7 years and is referenced in Rev. 16:21.
So one question is: How is it reconciled that the beast is destroyed in the 5th seal (as referenced above) and is destroyed again at Armageddon (Rev. 16:16); in the 7th seal. The answer is that the beast of the second seal is not one but two and perhaps more than two. Nevertheless, the beast that destroys Babylon arises in the 2nd seal at Rev. 13:1 and then destroys Babylon in the 4th seal. Yet, there is clearly another beast that ushers in the battle of Armageddon at Rev. 16:16. Keep in mind that there are several tense settings in Chapters 15 and 16 but Verse 16:16 is clearly present tense to the 7th seal.
Now we have the question about the placement of Chapter 10. I would say that it belongs in the 6th seal because this is where the temple is built (in the 6th seal at Rev. 11:2) and that Rev. 10:4 links solidly to Rev. 11:15. That is, the seven thunders of Verse 10:4 are the great voices of Verse 11:15 and this shows that Verse 10:4 is future tense to the 6th seal in Chapter 10. I suppose that is why John is told to not write what they "uttered" (Rev. 10:4 KJV) to help us see the tense settings in the chapters; because, that which they are "saying" is in the 7th seal at Rev. 11:15. Thus, Verse 10:4 is future tense to the 6th seal in Chapter 10.
Okay, the seventh seal precedes the third woe as stated in Rev. 11:14-15. That is, the seventh seal begins followed by the third woe and this is easy to see in Chapter 8 that the seventh seal opens and then the third woe begins with the application of the 4 angels. Please do not get confused by Rev. 8:13 that links to Rev. 14:6 and is between the 3rd and 4th seals. The placement of the woes in the seals is a follows:
1st woe is where the beast destroys Babylon in the 4th seal 2nd woe is where Christ destroys the beast in the 5th seal 3rd woe is where Christ destroys the world in the 7th seal
Ah, the mystery of the 6th seal is apparent, albeit explained above.
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Post by boraddict on Nov 10, 2019 13:32:04 GMT -6
The 7th seal and then I am done.
Chapters 8 and 16 are 7th seal chapters with Chapter 15 as an introduction. Additionally, the last few verses of Chapter 14 (vv. 14:18-20) that link to the present tense verses of Chapter 8 are also 7th seal. So please consider the introduction and it's linking back to Chapters 4 and 5 and massively important the third woe of Chapter 11. Secondly, keep in mind that the introduction to the 7th seal (Ch. 15) is the actual ending to the story. That is, the introduction to the 7th seal (Ch. 15) includes a "looking back feature" from the perspective of after the 7th seal has ended. Oh why Lord have you made this so complicated.
Rev. 15:1, The wrath of God is ready and this is present tense as John is seeing the vision.
Rev. 15:2, The sea of glass with the saints of God and this is present tense as John is seeing the vision but also looking back from the perspective of the hereafter as referenced in Rev. 4:1. Please notice that in the present tense the beast has already been destroyed; and this happened at the 2nd woe of the 5th seal. Secondly, please notice the sea of glass in Rev. 15:2 linking to Rev. 4:6 which supports that Chapter 4 is also "looking back" from the perspective of after the 3rd woe of the 7th seal has ended.
Rev. 15:3, This is the song as referenced in Rev. 5:9-10 showing that Chapter 5 is also harmonious to Chapter 15. Secondly, a similar event is mentioned in Rev. 14:3 indicating that the 144,000 of Chapter 14 that is in the 3rd seal are also here in Verse 15:3 at the introduction of the 7th seal.
Rev. 15:4, A song segment wherein the Lord's judgments are made manifest.
Rev. 15:5, Now we jump from the introduction of the 7th seal into the beginning of the 3rd woe of the 7th seal wherein the temple is opened and this becomes easier to see with the application of Chapter 11 below.
Rev. 15:6-8, Similar to Verse 15:5 wherein these verses are 7th seal but more importantly the beginning of the third woe as referenced in Chapter 11.
So please consider the third woe in Chapter 11 and it's application to the 7th seal. The seventh seal in Chapter 11 begins at Rev. 11:7 wherein the two witnesses are killed (explained below), followed by Rev. 11:13 wherein the great earthquake occurs.
Backing up just a little; the 3rd woe of Chapter 11 is in the 7th seal as shown via the chronological order of the seals beginning in Chapter 6 and extending through Chapter 11 as follows:
John views the Savior in Rev. 6:1 as he opened the 1st seal in Rev. 5:5 and the same observation exists for the remaining seals to wit: 2nd seal begins at Rev. 6:3 3rd seal begins at Rev. 6:5 4th seal begins at Rev. 6:7 5th seal begins at Rev. 6:9 6th seal begins at Rev. 6:12 7th seal begins at Rev. 8:1
Keep in mind that this does not mean that the intervening (parenthetical) Chapters 7 and 9-11 are in the 6th and 7th seals respectively, but that the 6th seal continues through to Rev. 8:1, and the 7th seal continues through to Rev. 11:19.
Another way to prove that the two witnesses are in the 7th seal is as follows. Notice the "come up hither" reference in Rev. 11:12 that links to Rev. 4:1 supported by the sea of glass in Rev. 4:6 and linking to Rev. 15:2 indicating that Rev. 11:12 precedes the vials of wrath in Chapter 16. That is, please notice that "come up hither" in Rev. 11:12 links to Rev. 4:1 and that Rev. 4:6 (which follows Verse 4:1 chronologically) links to Rev. 15:2, showing that Verse 11:12 is a pre-vials-of-wrath (pre Chapter 16) verse. Meaning, that Verse 11:12 links to Chapter 15 as an introductory verse preceding the vials of wrath in Chapter 16. Further, since the order in Chapter 11 is that of the two witnesses being called up in Rev. 11:12 and the great earthquake follows in Rev. 11:13, and this great earthquake is that of Rev. 16:18, then all the verses going back to Rev. 15:2 (wherein the sea of glass reference links to Rev. 4:6) exists between Verses 11:12 and 11:13 as follows:
Rev. 11:12 wherein the two witnesses are called up Rev. 15:2-16:17 that exists between Verses 11:12 and 11:13 Rev. 11:13 that is the great earthquake of Rev. 11:19 and 16:18
From the above referenced verses it should be easy to see that Rev. 11:14-18 also exist between Verses 11:12 and 11:13. Thus, the two witnesses are killed (v. 11:7) and called up (v. 11:12) and then the events of Verses 11:14-18 transpire as well as those of Verses 15:2 through 16:17. Perhaps this is easier to see wherein Rev. 11:15 links to Rev. 16:17 with the seventh angel sounding/pouring in each of those verses. That is, perhaps the connection between Chapters 11 and 16 are easier to see at the seventh angel in the verses referenced. At any rate, the connection to Chapter 8 is the nail in the coffin.
So, please consider that the four angels of Chapter 8 are the four angels of Chapter 16. I mean, the links are innumerable like:
1) the fountains of waters at the 3rd angel in Rev. 8:10, 16:4 2) the sun being smitten at the 4th angel in Rev. 8:12, 16:8 3) the earth being smitten at the 1st angel in Rev. 8:7, 16:2 4) the sea being smitten at the 2nd angel in Rev. 8:8, 16:3
Thus, Verses 8:1-9 (in general) are prior to Verse 16:1. Surely this proves as I have asserted above that the 7th seal begins in Chapter 15. Additionally, since Chapter 15 links to Chapter 11 as I have previously explained then the two witnesses are in the 7th seal. Thus, the death of the two witnesses at Rev. 11:7 is the beginning of the 7th seal at Rev. 8:1.
There is one last thing pertaining to the third woe that is Chapter 16. The false gods in Rev. 16:13-14 that lead the wicked into battle at Armageddon (Rev. 16:16) are the same false gods that lead the wicked in battle against the Savior in the 5th seal 2nd woe of Chapter 9 (see Rev. 9:18-19).
The End
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Post by boraddict on Nov 14, 2019 23:54:51 GMT -6
So I was thinking about Rev. 8:13 and wondered if the verse said something like "three woes are yet to sound."
Better than that however is that three angels are yet to sound. This means that the four angels of Rev. 8:7-12 as well as the three angels yet to sound in Rev. 9:1, 13, 11:15 are in fact the seven angels as referenced in Rev. 8:6.
Additionally, since the four angels of Rev. 8:7-12 are in harmony with the four angels of Rev. 16:2-9 (my opinion), then the angels of the three woes in Rev. 9:1, 13, 11:15 are in harmony with angels 5-7 in Rev. 16:2-9.
Lastly, since the last three angels (Rev. 9:1, 13, 11:15) are the three woes, then all seven angels (Rev. 8:7-12, 9:1, 13, 11:15) have woes associated with them. Thus, there are not three woes but seven.
Post Script: Addressing the four angels; there are two sets of angels the first of which appear to be actions via the enemies of God (Rev. 8:7-12, 9:1, 13, 11:15), and the second appear to be God's response (Rev. 16:2-17).
Something like:
2nd seal, the beast rises (Rev. 13:1) and the four angels in response are told to wait (Rev. 7:1-3) 3rd seal, the saints are protected 4th seal, the beast has committed acts as outlined in the four angels of Rev. 8:7-12, as well as the 5th angel of Rev. 9:1 5th seal, the Savior responds by releasing the four angels (Rev. 16:2-9) and these are released at Rev. 9:14-15.
Thus, the four angels of Rev. 8:7-12 are the fall of Babylon of Rev. 17:16-17 and the Savior responds via the four angels of Rev. 16:2-9 that is the destruction of the beast of Rev. 1911-21.
Thus, there is a cause and effect wherein the seven angels having trumpets (Rev. 8:7-12, 9:1, 13, 11:15) announce the woes and the cause for God's response; and his response is in the bowls of wrath (Rev. 16:2-17).
So, the angels in order as listed in the Book of Revelation are:
1) the 4 angels that are associated with the bowls (Rev. 7:1-3) 2) the 4 angels that are associated with the woes (Rev. 8:7-12) 3) the 5th angel that is associated with the woes (Rev. 9:1) 4) the 6th angel that is associated withe the woes (Rev. 9:13) 5) the 4 angels that are associated withe the bowls (Rev. 9:14-15) 6) the the 7th angel that is associated withe the woes (Rev. 11:15) 7a) the 4 angels associated with the bowls having been released at Rev. 9:14-15 and referenced again in Rev. 16:2-9 7b) the 3 angels associated with the bowls and referenced in Rev. 16:10-17.
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Post by boraddict on Nov 15, 2019 21:01:03 GMT -6
Previously in my analysis I explained:
1) The trumpet angels appear to announce the devastation that is wrought by the dragon upon mankind and the earth 2) and the bowl angels appear to announce Christ's response.
So the following are both sets of angels in sequence:
Oh, by the way, I need to do an analysis of the metaphors so please do not be offended.
I) 1st trumpet angel (Rev. 8:7), "The first angel blew his trumpet, and there followed hail and fire, mixed with blood, and these were thrown upon the earth. And a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up."
Here we see that some devastation has been wrought by the dragon upon the earth and mankind. So we have "hail" and "fire" and these were "mixed with blood" showing that some people were killed and lastly "these" that are the "hail" and "fire" were throw upon the earth. As a result, a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the leaders (trees), and all the followers (green grass). I suppose the followers were dissuaded from following the leaders after they saw the nuclear weapons fall from the sky as alluded to in Rev. 13:13.
If this analysis is correct, then the 1st trumpet is in line with the 4th seal and this trumpet is the actions of the second beast of Rev. 13:11. This is the fall of Babylon (Rev. 17:16).
1st bowl angel (Rev. 16:2), "So the first angel went and poured out his bowl on the earth, and harmful and painful sores came upon the people who bore the mark of the beast and worshiped its image."
I am so happy because here is the evidence that my analysis has merit. The Savior responds as noted in Rev. 16:1 (he is the voice from the temple). Thus, sores came upon those people whom had the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. As you perhaps know, the people referenced in Rev. 16:2 are those of Rev. 13:3-4, 8, supporting that Rev. 13 is in the 4th seal.
II) 2nd trumpet angel (Rev. 8:8-9), "The second angel blew his trumpet, and something like a great mountain, burning with fire, was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. A third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed. "
Here we have the great nation (mountain) burning with fire (and this was caused by the above nuclear weapons) and thrown into the sea and a third of the sea became blood. Since the great nation was burning and then thrown into the sea (as in "thrown" into the sea of the beast, Rev. 13:1), then the great nation has responded to the attack and subsequently killed a third of the beasts people. Thus, a third of the people of the sea (the beast's people) and a third of the ships were destroyed linking Rev. 8:9 to Rev. 18:17 and thus supporting that Rev. 18 is in the 4th seal.
2nd bowl angel (Rev. 16:3), "The second angel poured out his bowl into the sea, and it became like the blood of a corpse, and every living thing died that was in the sea."
Here we see the Savior's response is to destroy all those of the sea (Rev. 13:1) whom supported the beast.
III), 3rd trumpet angel (Rev. 8:10-11), "The third angel blew his trumpet, and a great star fell from heaven, blazing like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water. The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters became wormwood, and many people died from the water because it had been made bitter."
First, I would like to say that Verse 8:11 is beautifully written; like poetry. "A third of the waters became wormwood" as in a third of the people joined the beast. Secondly, many people died from the water (from those whom joined the beast). Okay, back to the beginning, "a great star" (and this is the red dragon of Rev. 12:3), fell on a third of the armies (rivers) and on the springs of water (these are the start up resistance movements).
3rd bowl angel (Rev. 16:4-7), "The third angel poured out his bowl into the rivers and the springs of water, and they became blood. And I heard the angel in charge of the waters say, “Just are you, O Holy One, who is and who was, for you brought these judgments. For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and you have given them blood to drink. It is what they deserve!”And I heard the altar saying, “Yes, Lord God the Almighty, true and just are your judgments!”
Wow! This is a big response to the third trumpet and rightly so; because, the third trumpet is were the dragon has taken over the entire world. So we have the armies (rivers) of the dragon being destroyed and any of their remnants (this is Rev. 19:11-21). As you may recall this happened in the second woe of Rev. 9.
IV) 4th trumpet angel (Rev. 8:12), "The fourth angel blew his trumpet, and a third of the sun was struck, and a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of their light might be darkened, and a third of the day might be kept from shining, and likewise a third of the night."
Ah! This verse is brilliant. I do like the KJV but this is good. Okay, a third of the sun was struck and these are those whom follow Christ (Rev. 13:7). Also, a third of the moon and these are also those whom have a testimony of Christ. Lastly, a third of the stars and these are those that do not follow Christ.
4th bowl angel (Rev. 16:8-9), "The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and it was allowed to scorch people with fire. They were scorched by the fierce heat, and they cursed the name of God who had power over these plagues. They did not repent and give him glory."
In response the Lord scorches people with the sun.
V) 5th trumpet angel (Rev. 9:1-12), "And the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star fallen from heaven to earth, and he was given the key to the shaft of the bottomless pit. He opened the shaft of the bottomless pit, and from the shaft rose smoke like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened with the smoke from the shaft. Then from the smoke came locusts on the earth, and they were given power like the power of scorpions of the earth. They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. They were allowed to torment them for five months, but not to kill them, and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings someone. And in those days people will seek death and will not find it. They will long to die, but death will flee from them. In appearance the locusts were like horses prepared for battle: con their heads were what looked like crowns of gold; their faces were like human faces, their hair like women’s hair, and their teeth like lions’ teeth; they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the noise of their wings was like the noise of many chariots with horses rushing into battle. They have tails and stings like scorpions, and their power to hurt people for five months is in their tails. They have as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek he is called Apollyon. The first woe has passed; behold, two woes are still to come."
Okay, there is a lot of information associated with the 5th trumpet angel so rather than going into detail I am posting the Savior's response.
5th bowl angel, (Rev. 16:10-11), "The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in anguish and cursed the God of heaven for their pain and sores. They did not repent of their deeds."
Keep in mind that the release of the four angel bowls (shown above) occurred after the fifth trumpet angel (see Rev. 9:14-15). So the sequence of events up to this point are:
1) 1st through 5th trumpets that announce events of the dragon 2) after the 5th trumpet then the Savior responds with the four angel bowls (Rev. 9:14-15) as referenced in Rev. 16:2-9.
VI) 6th trumpet angel (Rev. 9:13-21), "Then the sixth angel blew his trumpet, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar before God, saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.” So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour, the day, the month, and the year, were released to kill a third of mankind. The number of mounted troops was twice ten thousand times ten thousand; I heard their number. And this is how I saw the horses in my vision and those who rode them: they wore breastplates the color of fire and of sapphire and of sulfur, and the heads of the horses were like lions’ heads, and fire and smoke and sulfur came out of their mouths. By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed, by the fire and smoke and sulfur coming out of their mouths. For the power of the horses is in their mouths and in their tails, for their tails are like serpents with heads, and by means of them they wound. The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons wand idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk, nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts."
Okay, we see in the 6th trumpet that the dragon has made several destructive moves; and now in the 6th bowl is the Savior's response. Keep in mind that the Savoir's response is delayed for the remaining three trumpets similar to the delay of the first five trumpets wherein 4 bowls were the response at Rev. 9:14-15.
6th bowl angel (Rev. 16:12-15), "The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, to prepare the way for the kings from the east. And I saw, coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs. For they are demonic spirits, performing signs, who go abroad to the kings of the whole world, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God the Almighty. “Behold, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake, keeping his garments on, that he may not go about naked and be seen exposed!”
I like the solid kink between the 6th trumpet and bowl in which the three false gods are paramount. By the way, the tail represents a false government. So, when it says "their tails" it means their false government; also, frogs is metaphor for gods.
VII) 7th trumpet angel (Rev. 11:15-19), "Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and she shall reign forever and ever.” And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying, “We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, who is and who was, for you have taken your great power and begun to reign. The nations raged, but your wrath came, and the time for the dead to be judged, and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints, and those who fear your name, both small and great, and for destroying the destroyers of the earth.” Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail."
Here in the 7th trumpet we see the destructive influences of the dragon albeit intertwined with some Chapter 4-5 information; and now the Savior's response in the 7th bowl.
7th bowl angel (Rev. 16:17-21), "The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple, from the throne, saying, “It is done!” And there were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, and a great earthquake such as there had never been since man was on the earth, so great was that earthquake. The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell, and God remembered Babylon the great, to make her drain the cup of the wine of the fury of his wrath. And every island fled away, and no mountains were to be found. And great hailstones, about one hundred pounds each, fell from heaven on people; and they cursed God for the plague of the hail, because the plague was so severe."
It appears that bowls 5 through 7 take place here at the ending whereas bowls 1 through 4 took place in Chapter 9.
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Post by boraddict on Nov 19, 2019 23:54:29 GMT -6
A few days ago I found an error in my analysis at the 4th, 5th, or 6th seal. I can not remember exactly what the error was so I need to work through the analysis to find that error.
The pattern of the seven seals appears to follow a few themes as follows:
I) 1st seal, good 2nd seal, evil 3rd seal, good 4th seal, evil 5th seal, good 6th seal, evil 7th seal, good
II) 1st seal, Christ 2nd seal, Dragon 3rd seal, Christ 4th seal, Dragon 5th seal, Christ 6th seal, Dragon 7th seal, Christ
III) 1st seal, Christ came conquering when he gave his life for his people 2nd seal, Dragon came to destroy Christ's people 3rd seal, Christ sent his angel to do a work 4th seal, Dragon worked to destroy the angel and Christ's people 5th seal, Christ responded via his angel to put down the Dragon 6th seal, Dragon continued his work to destroy the angel and Christ's people 7th seal, Christ conquers the Dragon
IV) 1st seal (Rev. 6:2), Christ is the rider of the white horse (Rev. 19:11) 2nd seal (Rev. 6:4), Dragon is the rider of the red horse and this is supported in that the dragon is red (Rev. 12:3) 3rd seal (Rev. 6:5), Christ's angel is the rider of the black horse and this is Michael (Dan. 12:1) whom is directed to protect Christ's people 4th seal (Rev. 6:8) Dragon's beast is the rider of the pale (blood moon color) horse whom attacks Michael 5th seal (Rev. 6:9) Christ's saints whom have died at the hand of the dragon are avenged 6th seal (Rev. 6:12) Dragon continues to attack Christ's people (Rev. 12:17) 7th seal (Rev. 8:1) Christ conquers the Dragon
V) 1st seal 2nd seal 3rd seal 4th seal, the four trumpets announcing actions of the Dragon (Rev. 8:7-12)
5th seal, This is the location of the error. Please notice in the 5th seal above that the saints are avenged. Meaning, that the fall of Babylon is here in the 5th seal. Previously I had concluded that the fall of Babylon was in the 4th seal but the logic does not support that conclusion. This however makes perfect sense because after Babylon falls in Rev. 17:16 then the Savior states that his people have been avenged (Rev. 18:20). Therefore, Babylon falls in the 5th seal and this is the 1st woe as referenced in Rev. 9:1-12. Also notice that the 5th angel at Rev. 9:1 announced the Dragon's actions of destroying Babylon (my opinion).
6th seal, that is the 2nd woe and here we see the massive army of the dragon (Rev. 9:13-21). Interestingly, the 6th seal is but a reference in Rev. 6:12 that then goes to events of the 7th seal. For this reason it must be the case that four of the bowl angels are released here at Rev. 9:14-16 after Babylon has fallen in the first woe. Therefore, the four bowl angels as referenced in Rev. 16 are the 2nd woe. Then, at the 7th seal the remaining three bowl angels are the 3rd woe. I guess that his why the 6th seal looked to be the 7th seal, that the 4 bowl angels were released at Rev. 6:12-17.
So sorry about the mistake but the analysis seems pretty good with this new correction.
VI) 1st seal 2nd seal 3rd seal, saints are taken 4th seal, Dragon attacks (the 4 trumpets, Rev. 8:7-12) 5th seal, 5th trumpet, Christ brings down Babylon via the Dragon (Rev. 9:1-12), saints are avenged (Rev. 18:20). Thus, the first woe is the fall of Babylon. 6th seal, Dragon's massive army and the 4 bowl angels are released as directed in Rev. 9:14-15 (Rev. 16:2-9). Thus, the second woe is the 4 angels of Chapter 16. 7th seal, Christ destroys the dragon wherein 3 bowl angels are released. Thus, the third woe is angels 5, 6, and 7 of Chapter 16.
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Post by boraddict on Nov 20, 2019 9:53:39 GMT -6
So from what I can see the entire Book of Revelation hinges on the analysis of Rev. 8; the enigma chapter.
Please consider that chapter 8 begins with the announcement that the 7th seal is opened. So, in viewing the events, John has seen the Savior as he (Jesus) opened the seventh seal as referenced in Rev. 5:5. That is, the events are as follows:
1) Lord Jesus gave his life in the atonement (Rev. 5:6) 2) then Lord Jesus took the scroll from God's hand (Rev. 5:7) 3) then Lord Jesus opened the scroll and looked upon the seals thereof (Rev. 5:5) 4) then John looking back in vision to when Lord Jesus opened and looked upon the scroll and seals thereof (Rev. 5:5) states as much in Rev. 6:1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8, 9-11, 12-17, and lastly at the 7th seal, Rev. 8:1.
I mention this because at Rev. 8:2 the seven angels are given seven trumpets and as I previously mentioned the trumpets announce warnings of what the dragon is doing. So, I hope this explanation clarifies that John seeing Jesus open the seven seals ends at Verse 8:1. Because, at Verse 8:2 the discussion about the seven trumpets begins. In other words, the book is written as follows:
1) John sees Jesus opening the seven seals of the scroll, and John sees some events as each seal is opened, and this is Chapter 6. 2) John then writes Rev. 7 to passively tell us that the four angels that are bowl angels must wait until after the 144,000 are sealed. Meaning, that the bowl angels can not participate until after the 3rd seal wherein the saints were gathered. That is, Chapter 7 is parenthetical to the seven seals beginning at the third seal. 3) Then at Rev. 8:1 John goes back to the 7th seal, that was referenced blindly in Rev. 6:12-17, to begin addressing the seven trumpets that announce the events of the dragon leading up to the events of the four bowl angels.
That is, after the parenthetical chapter (Rev. 7), John then returns to the seven seals at Rev. 8:1. That is, he returns to the seventh seal that was referenced in Rev. 6:12-17. So what is he returning to? He is returning to the subject of the four bowl angels of Rev. 7:1-3. So, the subject of the four bowl angels is as follows:
1) the 6th seal opens (Rev. 6:12) 2) then we see the Rev. 16 events listed in Rev. 6:12-17 3) then we are told that the first four of the bowl angels must wait (Rev. 7:1-3); meaning that the bowl angels are in the 6th seal of Chapter 6. In other words, John is saying: "Oh, by the way, the four bowl angels of the 6th seal must wait until after the 144,000 are sealed." So, where were the 144,000 sealed if the bowl angels waited until the 6th seal? They were sealed prior to the 6th seal. That is, the were sealed in the third, fourth, or fifth seal of Chapter 6.
Therefore, Rev. 8:1 is a return to the chapter 6 seals and Rev. 8:2 is like Chapter 7 wherein it references the seven actions of the beast as announced by seven angels. So where did the actions of the dragon begin? Either at the 2nd or 4th seals. Therefore, Rev. 8:2 begins there at the 2nd or the 4th seals of Rev. 6. Since the altar is referenced in Rev. 8:3, and this links to the 5th seal, then it is reasonable that the seven trumpets begin at the 4th seal. Thus:
1) Rev. 8:2 is at the 4th seal of Chapter 6 2) Rev. 8:3-4 is at the 5th seal of Chapter 6 3) Rev. 8:5 is at the 6th seal of Chapter 6 and this is where the four bowl angels that were referenced in Rev. 7:1-3 begin. That is, from Rev. 7:4 to 8:4 is simply background information supporting the events of the four bowl angels in the 6th seal.
Then at Rev. 8:6 we go back to the beginning of the actions of the dragon followed by the four actions in the 4th seal that are referenced in Rev. 8:7-12.
This build up in Chapter 8 is simply taking us to the release of the four bowl angels in chapter 9 that are the subject of Chapters 7 through 9 in their relationship to the 6th seal in Chapter 6. That is, it is all about the four bowl angels from Rev. 7:1 through Rev. 9:21. Notice that they are referenced in Verse 7:1-3 that they must wait, and then at Rev. 9:14-15 that they can do their work. Thus, the four bowl angels of Chapter 16 are the primary subject of chapters 7 through 9. Since these bowl angels do their work in the 6th seal (Rev. 6:12-17) then all the events that transpire in Chapters 7 through 9 most likely take place prior to the opening of the 7th seal as referenced in Rev. 8:1.
So Chapter 8 goes like: 1) reference to the 7th seal opening (Rev. 8:1) 2) reference back to the beginning of the actions of the dragon in the 2nd or 4th seals (Rev. 8:2-3) 3) reference back to the 5th seal and saints at the altar (Rev. 8:4) 4) reference back to the four bowl angels that must wait in Rev. 7:1-3 whom now act in the 6th seal (Rev. 8:5)
5) the story continues back at the 4th seal where the actions of the dragon begins (Rev. 8:6-12)
6) Chapter 9 the story continues with the fall of Babylon (5th seal) and the four bowl angels upon the army of the beast (6th seal).
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