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Post by boraddict on Oct 28, 2019 19:06:56 GMT -6
As I was working in my previous thread I came to understand that there are seven seals in the second half of the book that correspond to the seven seals in the first half of the book. So let's consider the chiasmus of the book by chapter as follows:
1, the front-side of the book begins
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11, the front-side of the book ends
12, the backside of the book begins
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22, the backside of the book ends
Notice that the "backside" of the book (see Rev. 5:1 KJV) begins with the great sign in at Rev. 12:1. Therefore, it is my contention that the first of the seven seals began at 9/23/2017.
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Post by mike on Oct 28, 2019 19:41:07 GMT -6
BORA that's an interesting take, I've not heard before.
Ch 1-4 to the churches
Ch 5-18 7 years of disaster on Earth
Ch 19-21 Millennial Reign
variant from the Opistograph Scroll thread
On the front and the back
1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8...11-12 middle and so on with a back and forth theme of Earth/heavenly. Of course the video series is better if you listened.
I can't say I disagree, 9/23/17 meant something and was possibly the beginning marker of ...
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Post by boraddict on Oct 29, 2019 7:23:45 GMT -6
So it would seem that the seals of Chapter 6 are repeated in Chapter 12 as follows:
1st seal, Rev. 6:1-2 and Rev. 12:1-2
2nd seal, Rev. 6:3-4 and Rev. 12:3-4
3rd seal, Rev. 6:5 and Rev. 12:5
The Savior,s words of warning, Rev. 6:6 and Rev. 12:6
4th seal, Rev. 6:7-8 and Rev. 12:7-9
5th seal, Rev. 6:9 and Rev. 12:10
The word's of the great multitude, Rev. 6:10-11 and Rev. 12:12
6th seal, Rev. 6:12 and Rev. 12:13-14
7th seal as referenced in Chapter 6, Rev. 6:12-17 and Rev. 12:15-17
If the analysis is correct then Chapter 6 is repeated in Chapter 12, and Chapters 7 through 11 are repeated in Chapters 13 through 19.
Chapter 7 is to Chapters 13 -14
Chapter 8 is to Chapters 15-16
Chapter 9 is to Chapters 17-18
Chapter 10-11 is to Chapter 19
Secondly, the above referenced Chapters are expansions of the seven seals and fit into Chapters 6 and 12 something like this:
1st seal, Chapters 7 and 13
2nd seal, Chapters 8 and 14
3rd seal, the 1st woe of Chapter 9
4th seal, the 2nd woe of Chapter 9
5th seal, Chapter 10 and first half of Chapters 11 and 19
6th seal,
7th seal, the 3rd woe of Chapter 11 and the second half of Chapter 19
If this is correct then the 1st seal of Chapters 6 and 12 are the rise of Trump and the Great Sign, and, we are currently in the events of Chapters 7 and 13.
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Post by boraddict on Oct 29, 2019 11:58:36 GMT -6
The first seal is referenced in Rev. 5:1 as one of the seven seals on the backside of the book. Since the book as referenced in Rev. 5:1 (that is the revelation as stated in Rev. 1:1) is sealed, then those seven sealed portions of the book must be unsealed.
John explains that "no man" was able to open the book neither to look thereon (Rev. 5:3); meaning, that no one was able to see the revelation that God had in his hand to give (Rev. 5:1). At this point John wept because the revelation (v. 1:1) was available as a book (v. 5:1); however, no one could look at the book to open it. That is, until Jesus gave his life for the sins of mankind (Rev. 5:5). It was then that Jesus was able to look upon the book and open the seals thereof.
The evidence that John provides that Jesus was indeed worthy to look upon and open the seals of the book is stated in Rev. 5:6. So it is after the crucifixion that Jesus took the book as stated in Rev. 5:7. It was then that God instructed Jesus to give that revelation (the book with seven seals) to his servants via the angel and John (Rev. 1:1). So we have the book that God gave Jesus (Rev. 5:7) that Jesus gave to the angel and John via a revelation (Rev. 1:1) and that book was written by John as the Book of Revelation.
From the above information it appears that Chapter 5 took place after the crucifixion but before our era wherein the events of the seven seals begin.
Secondly, the seven seals are enumerated in the first half of the book in Chapters 6 through 11 but they are not enumerated in the second half of the book. Since the 1st seal (Rev. 6:1-2) is the beginning of the sealed book from God (Rev. 5:1), and Chapter 12 is the beginning of the back of the book, then Rev. 12:1-2 is the 1st seal in the back of the book.
Third, since the order of the seals in the first half of the book are chronological with informational chapters that expand the seals included, then the same condition exists in the second half of the book. Therefore, Chapters 13 and 14 being first expand the 1st seal and perhaps others of the seven seals.
Therefore, the 1st seal includes the rise of the beast (Rev. 13:1) and the Savior's response that is the gathering of the 144,000 as mentioned in Rev. 14:1-5. Not only that, but it suggests that Chapter 7 begins in the 1st seal as well at Rev. 6:1-2, 12:1-2.
So we have in the 1st seal, the conquer (Rev. 6:2) that appears to be Trump, and the rise of the beast (Rev. 13:1) that appears to be Putin. Additionally, we have the great sign (Rev. 12:1), and the beginnings of the gathering as reverenced in Rev. 14:1-5.
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Post by yardstick on Oct 30, 2019 23:49:51 GMT -6
So it would seem that the seals of Chapter 6 are repeated in Chapter 12 as follows: 1st seal, Rev. 6:1-2 and Rev. 12:1-2 2nd seal, Rev. 6:3-4 and Rev. 12:3-4 3rd seal, Rev. 6:5 and Rev. 12:5 The Savior,s words of warning, Rev. 6:6 and Rev. 12:6 4th seal, Rev. 6:7-8 and Rev. 12:7-9 5th seal, Rev. 6:9 and Rev. 12:10 The word's of the great multitude, Rev. 6:10-11 and Rev. 12:12 6th seal, Rev. 6:12 and Rev. 12:13-14 7th seal as referenced in Chapter 6, Rev. 6:12-17 and Rev. 12:15-17 If the analysis is correct then Chapter 6 is repeated in Chapter 12, and Chapters 7 through 11 are repeated in Chapters 13 through 19. Chapter 7 is to Chapters 13 -14 Chapter 8 is to Chapters 15-16 Chapter 9 is to Chapters 17-18 Chapter 10-11 is to Chapter 19 Secondly, the above referenced Chapters are expansions of the seven seals and fit into Chapters 6 and 12 something like this: 1st seal, Chapters 7 and 13 2nd seal, Chapters 8 and 14 3rd seal, the 1st woe of Chapter 9 4th seal, the 2nd woe of Chapter 9 5th seal, Chapter 10 and first half of Chapters 11 and 19 6th seal, 7th seal, the 3rd woe of Chapter 11 and the second half of Chapter 19 If this is correct then the 1st seal of Chapters 6 and 12 are the rise of Trump and the Great Sign, and, we are currently in the events of Chapters 7 and 13. I have a few questions: 1. The first seal reveals describes a rider on a white horse with a bow, going forth conquering, and (for the purpose) to conquer. Where in Rev 12: 1-2 is this shown? 2. Similarly to 1, the black horse and 12:3-4, 3. et c with the next 2 seals... Can you please explain this? 4. In the 5th seal, the saints under the altar are crying out for vengeance. How does this match up with 12:10 where there is a single voice announcing the coming of Christ's Kingdom, the conquest of Satan, and an 'atta-boy' with respect to believers? 5. 6th seal - Rev 12:13-14 Please explain how these two are related. Particularly 6:15 as it relates to both 12:13 and 12:14 I will stop here in my queries, except to ask that you consider the requirement of this board under Rule 1: I would advise you that chiasmi, while interesting; and while potentially shedding light on some passages of scripture, have been well established as not being foolproof means of interpretation; and therefore, should not necessarily be used to interpret ALL passages of scripture. If I understand correctly, chiasmi show parallels, simile, or show the relationship between two passages by means of their location relative to a central theme. If a chiasmus does not show an obvious pattern of relationship between two passages - namely, that they basically say the same or similar things, then the chiasmus method does not work for those passages. I believe (though I submit myself to Gary for correction here) that the above board rule clause could be largely interpreted as: The Golden Rule of Biblical Interpretation
Which has been discussed in other places on this forum. I leave it to Gary to have the final say on this, if he wants to chime in. |
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Post by boraddict on Nov 1, 2019 9:32:24 GMT -6
Thank you yardstick. This all stems from a thread in which there was a conversation about Rev. 5.
After some time I found it interesting that Rev. 5:1 was the literal beginning of the story in which God had a scroll (book). As John was shown this beginning, then the angel whom was tasked with showing John this information (Rev. 1:1) posed the question as stated in Rev. 5:2.
Then in Rev. 5:3-5 John is perplexed that no one is worthy to open the scroll and then the angel informs John that Jesus had opened the scroll and loose the seals thereof.
At Rev. 5:6 we are told how Jesus qualified to be worthy to open the scroll in that he had been slain. So, after the Savior was crucified then he took the scroll from God's hand as referenced in Rev. 5:7 and this is where Rev. 1:1 fits into the chronology:
1) the crucifixion
2) then Lord Jesus takes the scroll from God as stated in Rev. 5:7
3) then Lord Jesus opens that scroll as stated in Rev. 5:5
4) then Lord Jesus gave the information contained upon that scroll to the angel
5) to give to John as stated in Rev. 1:1.
6) then in Rev. 6:1 John views the Savior opening the 1st seal as stated in Rev. 5:5 JKV wherein Jesus opened the scroll and loosen the seals,
7) then in Rev. 6:2 John is told to come and see the events of that 1st seal.
I had always thought that the seals were like ribbons tied around a rolled up scroll but upon closer inspection of Rev. 5:1 KJV it states that the seals are on the "backside." Consequently, the seals would be like wax seals holding the end of the scroll so that it would not open on it's own; something like taping the end of a rolled up paper.
However, John views the events contained within each seal (ch. 6-11) after Jesus had opened the seals as stated in Rev. 5:5. That is, Jesus had "loosed the seals" (Rev. 5:5) and then John sees the events of each seal. This supports that 1) not only is the scroll of Rev. 5:1 the revelation of Rev. 1:1, but 2) that the seals are seven parts or chapters of the written words upon the scroll.
Further, Rev. 5:5 seems to say that Jesus opened the scroll and then loosed the seals and not the other way around. Again, this supports that the seals are the written words upon the scroll; the seals are the seven individual parts of the revelation. As such, all the remaining things outside the seven seals (ie. Chapters 12-19) are simply parenthetical appendages to the seven seals of Chapters 6 through 11.
The possibility exists that not only are these chapters (12-19) parenthetical appendages to the seven seals, but are also harmonious to Chapters 6 through 11.
In my next posting I will include the answers to your questions.
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Post by boraddict on Nov 2, 2019 12:26:53 GMT -6
In my previous posting I provided evidence that the scroll in Gods hand in Rev. 5:1 is the revelation spoken of in Rev. 1:1 to wit:
1) That scroll was in seven sealed parts that Lord Jesus had no access to until after he was crucified and this is stated in Rev. 5:3-6.
2) So after Jesus was crucified then he took the scroll from God's hand and opened it to view the sevens sealed portions thereof as stated in Rev. 5:7, 5.
3) Then Jesus gave the information contained within the seven sealed portions of the scroll to the angel to give to John as stated in Rev. 1:1
4) The seven sealed portions of the scroll begin to be revealed in The Book of Revelation at Rev. 6:1 wherein John looks back in vision to when Lord Jesus first opened the scroll after his crucifixion per Rev. 5:5.
5) Then at Rev. 6:2 John sees the events of the 1st sealed portion of the scroll and shares that information with us.
6) John's observation of Lord Jesus viewing each sealed portion of the scroll and then his (John's) subsequent viewing in vision of that sealed portion is repeated for each of the seven sealed portions of the scroll.
Since the seven sealed portions of the scroll are the revelation that John received and he wrote that in The Book of Revelation, then John's book contains the information that Lord Jesus did not have access to until after the crucifixion. Therefore, the information in The Book of Revelation does not exist in any other book of scripture.
As a result, the information contained within The Book of Revelation can only be cross-referenced from within the book for any accurate analysis of the previously sealed portions of the scroll.
Those cross-references are given to us as parenthetical portions of the book:
1) Notice that Chapter 7 appears to be contained within the 6th seal of Chapter 6; however, it could be a parenthetical part to some or all of the first six seals in Chapter 6.
2) Chapter 8 wherein the seventh seal is spoken contains the four angels that are referenced in Rev. 7:1-3. This seems to indicate that if Chapter 7 is parenthetical to the seals of Chapter 6, then the four angels of Chapter 8 might as well.
3) If the four angels of Chapter 8 are parenthetical to the seals of Chapter 6, then the three woes of Chapters 9 and 11 might as well.
4) The same possibility that exists for Chapters 7-8 and the three woes of 9 and 11 might also exist for Chapters 10 and 11; they might be parenthetical to Chapter 6. That is, Chapter 6 appears to be an outline of the seven seals and Chapters 7 through 11 appear to fit into that outline.
Since the seven seals as well as their parenthetical chapters (from my opinion above) are in Chapters 6 through 11, and that is in the 1st half of the book, then what about the second half of the book? I mean, after all, some of the events of Chapters 6-11 are in Chapters 12-19 like:
1) The temple of God was opened in Rev. 11:19 and 15:5
2) The 144,000 are sealed in Rev. 7: 4-8 and with Christ in Rev. 14:1
3) The great multitude is gathered together in Rev. 7:9 and in 19:6
4) etc.
In fact, it is my opinion that all the events of Chapters 6 through 11 are in Chapters 12 through 19 and visa-versa. So, where is the companion chapter to Chapter 6? That is, if Chapters 6 through 11 are as I have described above, then how do Chapters 12 through 19 fit together but to follow the same pattern. That is, Chapter 12 would be the outline chapter that Chapters 13 through 19 fit into.
To be continued:
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Post by boraddict on Nov 3, 2019 22:51:11 GMT -6
From my previous posting I summarized that Chapter 12 is an outline that Chapters 13-19 fit into. The following is my opinion and one possibility of how these chapters might go together. The following list is in reverse order because Chapter 19 has greater solidarity to the analysis.
VI & VII.
So please consider that Chapter 19 that has two major parts:
a) The marriage supper of the Lamb in Rev. 19:1-10
and
b) The destruction of the beast in Rev. 19:11-21
These two parts of Chapter 19 fit into Chapter 12 at:
c) The church in the wilderness in Rev. 12:14
and
d) Satan makes war upon the church in Rev. 12:15-17
Supporting links to the above connection between Chapter 19 and 12 are:
e) In Verse 12:14 the church is sequestered for 3.5 years and in Verses 19:5-9 the church is at the marriage supper of the Lamb
and
f) In Verses 12:15-17 Satan makes war upon the church and in Verses 19:11-21 the Savior responds in a manner that totally destroys the beast.
V.
Please consider that Chapters 17 and 18 are consecutive wherein Babylon is destroyed
These two chapters (17-18) fit into Chapter 12 at Rev. 12:12-13 because:
Rev. 12:12 links to Rev. 18:20 wherein the saints are told to "rejoice"
IV.
Please consider that Chapters 15 and 16 are consecutive wherein the seven angels pour out the vials of wrath
These two chapters (15-16) fit into Chapter 12 at Rev. 12:7-11 because:
The angels of God fought against the dragon.
III.
Please consider that Chapter 14 wherein the 144,000 are with the Savior corresponds directly to Rev. 12:5-6 wherein the church is with God
II.
Please consider that Chapter 13 wherein the beast rises corresponds directly with Rev. 12:3-4
I.
Please consider that Chapter 12 as the outline chapter begins with the great sign in Rev. 12:1-2
I do not know exactly how Chapters 13-19 fit into chapter 12 but the above seems plausible.
To be continued and tied back to Chapters 6 through 11.
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Post by boraddict on Nov 5, 2019 22:18:28 GMT -6
From my previous posting on this thread I have provided good evidence that the scroll in God's hand (Rev. 5:1) contains the revelation (Rev. 1:1).
1) God had a scroll in his right hand (Rev. 5:1)
2) Jesus was slain and found worthy to open the scroll and look thereon (Rev. 5:4-6)
3) Jesus took the scroll from God's right hand (Rev. 5:7)
4) Jesus opened the scroll and loosed the sealed portions thereof (Rev. 5:5)
After the prophecy (Rev. 22:7) of the scroll were unsealed by Jesus, then Jesus tasked the angel to show John the revelation that was upon the scroll.
5) Thus, Jesus gave the revelation to his angel to give to John (Rev. 1:1)
6) John saw in vision Jesus opening the 1st sealed portion of the scroll as referenced in Rev. 5:5 (Rev. 6:1)
7) A beast told John to come and see the now unsealed 1st seal (Rev. 6:1)
Since the angel was tasked with showing John the revelation in Rev. 1:1 and in Rev. 6:1 a beast showed John the 1st unsealed portion of that revelation, then the angel of Verse 1:1 is metaphorically called a beast in Verse 6:1.
8) John viewed the 1st unsealed portion of the scroll (Rev.6:2)
9) The same events wherein the angel showed John the 1st seal was repeated for the remaining unsealed portions of the scroll.
Since the revelation that was contained upon the scroll is now written in The Book of Revelation and that was in seven sealed parts, then all the parts of The Book of Revelation are contained within the seven seals. Therefore, the events of the second half of the book are in the seven seals.
Post Script: Notice that Jesus is the one whom has conquered (Rev. 5:5) and that he is the one riding the white horse (Rev. 19:11). Therefore, the one going forth conquering and to conquer in Rev. 6:2 is Jesus. This means that the 1st seal began when Jesus looked upon the scroll as referenced in Rev. 5:5 as he went forth to save souls after conquering death.
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Post by boraddict on Nov 6, 2019 7:15:19 GMT -6
In looking at Rev. 6:2 I wondered why Jesus had a bow. I mean, the verse seems to say that Jesus while in mortality had a bow.
Then I recalled that in Isaiah the "quiver" of the bow was mentioned (Isa. 49:2).
So it seems that in Rev. 6:2 Jesus is the rider of the white horse and he while in mortality had a bow that is a weapon of warfare. He waged war upon false doctrine and then he was slain.
Afterwards, a crown was given to the Savior as referenced in Rev. 5:5.
Again look at the verse, that the rider is the Savior as shown in Rev. 19:11 and secondly, that the Savior "had a bow."
"And I looked, and behold, a white horse. ! And its rider had a bow,"
afterwards, a crown was given to the Savior as stated in Rev. 5:5; after he was slain.
"and a crown was given to him,"
and then he came out conquering as he conquered death
"and he came out conquering,"
and then he went forth "to conquer" and this must be a reference to not only the past 2,000 years but also here in the end times.
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Post by Natalie on Nov 6, 2019 8:52:49 GMT -6
How can Jesus open the scroll and send Himself out and then open the next scroll?
ETA: nevermind..I went back to your other posts and see what connection you were making.
But do consider that Jesus is the one worthy to open the scrolls. Does He send Himself?
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Post by boraddict on Nov 6, 2019 13:23:35 GMT -6
Thank you Natalie.
I think the verses are telling us that some information was withheld from Jesus while he was in mortality, and this is consistent with him saying that only the Father knew the time of his return.
Then after the crucifixion other information that the Father had was available to him.
It appears that the scroll in Chapter 5 is more symbolic than literal. That is, a scroll was not literally given to Christ but the information was given to Christ. However, he first had to give his life and then he was given the information; after he was out of mortality.
He then gave that information to the angel to give to John.
I do not understand why some information was withheld from Christ but the scroll information that appears to be the revelation was withheld.
Then, for some reason, the information is divided into seven parts the first of which is his conquering and his coming to conquer.
Why would he do this? Why withhold the information from himself?
I suppose it was to place a major emphasis upon it. That is, his return is such a pivotal moment in history that he is placing an exclamation mark upon the events of these end times. Yet, some end time information is given in the OT and NT; however, according to Chapter 5 the revelation was not available until John wrote it. So, what is the revelation? It is the information in The Book of Revelation that is not in other scripture. That is what we are supposed to find.
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Post by boraddict on Nov 7, 2019 14:17:38 GMT -6
Previously I showed how Jesus was in fact the rider of the white horse in Rev. 6:2 (see Rev. 19:11).
That he went for conquering (v. 6:2) when he gave his life as a payment for sin and overcame the physical death.
Lastly, he is poised to conquer (v. 6:2) here in the end times.
The counterpart to the above, if my analysis is correct, is Rev. 12:1-2 wherein the church will plead for Jesus to conquer; and we are currently doing just that. So, chronologically speaking:
1) Jesus went forth conquering (Rev. 6:2) as he lived his mortal life riding the white horse (metaphorically speaking) as he gave his life in the atonement.
2) The great sign was on 9/23/2017 (Rev. 12:1)
3) The church pleads for his return to conquer (Rev. 12:2)
Notice that in Rev. 12:2 KJV, the woman is with child and this means in my analysis that the church is with the child of God; Lord Jesus. She cries to be delivered from the pain of caused by the wicked world. She is travailing in birth knowing that her delivery is nigh. The chiasmus of the verse places an emphasis upon "the birth" with links between "cried" and "pained" as well as "she / child" and "delivered" as follows:
Rev. 12:2 KJV,
"And she being with child
cried travailing
in birth
and pained
to be delivered"
Rev. 12:2
"She was pregnant
and was crying out
in birth
pains
and the agony of giving birth."
Notice that in both versions "the birth" is the emphasis and this is the birth of the Savior. Therefore Verse 12:2 pertains to the return of the Savior; his return to conquer.
4) We are now awaiting his return to conquer (Rev. 6:2)
So this answers one of the questions from yardstick of how I had linked Verse 12:1-2 to Verse 6:2 in my analysis.
Secondly, a connection between Rev. 6:4 and Rev. 12:3 is the color red in that the rider is upon a red horse and the dragon is red. Notice that horse corresponds to dragon and thereby shows that the rider upon the horse is a rider upon the dragon. Thus, the red horse is the dragon in my analysis of Rev. 6:4 and the rider is the beast of Rev. 13:2. Thus, the connection between the verses are a follows:
1) The dragon responds to the conquering of Christ (Rev. 6:2) in that he sends forth his rider (Rev. 6:4) the beast. This is a repeat of the type of the early church wherein the saints were persecuted by a Roman beast.
2) The shadow of that type is the dragon and the end times beast persecuting the church (Rev. 13:7)
3) The power that is given to the rider of the red horse (Rev. 6:4) is from the dragon (Rev. 13:2). Note: the rider is the beast and the horse is the dragon; thus, the beast receives power from the dragon.
4) The power was to take peace from the earth (Rev. 6:4) and this is fully supported in Chapter 13
5) From the above information it should be easy to see that the "great sward" that was given to the rider of Verse 6:2 is his mouth-peace that is the second beast of Rev. 13:11.
Therefore it is reasonable that Verse 6:4 corresponds directly to Verse 12:3 and that Chapter 13 is in the second seal.
To be continued
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Post by boraddict on Nov 8, 2019 9:31:58 GMT -6
Okay, in my analysis of the 3rd seal at Rev. 6:5-6 linking to Rev. 12:5-6 we have the rider of the black horse (v. 6:5) and the man child that was caught up unto God (v. 12:5).
Please notice that in Verse 6:5 the rider of the black horse has a pair of balances in his hand and in Verse 12:5 the man child has a rod of iron for ruling the nations.
It is clear that in both verses (vv. 6:5, 12:5) the individual in question is peaceful wherein the first case the rider is weighing the wheat and barley that represent the saints of God as well as Christ stating a warning not to hurt the oil and wine that are perhaps representations of the sacrament. In the second case the man child was caught up unto God and the woman that is the church went into the wilderness for 3.5 years. Therefore, Verses 6:5-6 and 12:5-6 pertain to the Savior and the saints in both Chapters 7 and 14 placing these chapters and verses in the 3rd seal and this is the rapture.
So the order of events if my analysis is correct is as follows:
1) The Savior goes forth conquering when he was born into mortality (see the gospels) and this begins the 1st seal. Then in the end times the saints await his return to conquer and that is now.
2) The second seal is the rise of the end times beast as referenced in Rev. 13.
3) The third seal is the rapture as alluded to in Rev. 7 and the saints with Christ in Rev. 14.
There is much more to it than what I have stated but in general the order of events flows wherein the first seal spans 2,000 years until the rise of the beast at the second seal followed by a rapture in the third seal.
Since the rapture is in Rev. 12:5-6 followed by the war in Rev. 12:7-8 wherein Michael wins against the dragon, and the red dragon in Rev. 12:3 is represented as the red horse in Rev. 6:4, then the rider of the black horse in Rev. 6:5 is Michael. That is, in the natural flow of events, at the point in history that the dragon is going to slay the saints of God, then the dragon looses the war; because, the saints have been enraptured.
It is easier to see in Chapter 12 because we have the church in Rev. 12:1-2 and then the dragon in Rev. 12:4-5 and the church taken away from the dragon in Rev. 12:5-6 and then the dragon being destroyed in Rev. 12:7-11. So who is it that destroys the dragon but Michael and in Rev. 6:5 it is he who is the rider of the black horse being told to protect the saints of God in Rev. 6:6.
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Post by boraddict on Nov 8, 2019 20:32:18 GMT -6
Now I am at the 4th seal and this is perhaps the most difficult because the color of the horse is in question. So I am using a simile for clarification of the horse in Rev. 6:8 as follows:
1) The white horse in Rev. 6:2 is to the black horse in Rev. 6:5 (both representing actions of Christ).
like
2) The red horse in Rev. 6:4 is to the pale horse in Rev. 6:8 (both representing actions of the dragon). What is the "pale" color?
Please consider that the opposite of white is black as in day and night, and the opposite of red is what? I would say that red represents blood and the opposite is the lack thereof. Thus, the color "pale" represents a human body lacking blood. That is my best guess. Another guess for the color "pale" would be a washed out red. So, now, where is that color in The Book of Revelation.
For example, the color white is found in Rev. 19:11 and the color red is found in Rev. 12:3 and the color black is found in Rev. 6:12 which by the way pertains to "the sun" as in "the son of God" turning "black as sackcloth." Meaning, that the Savior is now on a war footing and this links to Chapter 16 prior to Rev. 16:21 because it is at that verse that "the stars of heaven fell to the earth" (Rev. 6:12) as "hail."
I wish the analysis was a bit cleaner but I am trying to explain how I found the "pale" color.
Since the black color is in Rev. 6:12 and "the moon became as blood" in that verse, and the color of blood is red, then the verse is saying that Christ attacked the dragon via Michael (black) and then the dragon that is represented by the color of red responds with his beast that is the color of the moon; or shall we say, a blood moon. Thus, it is not a bright blood color but an off pale red color or the like.
So there we have it, the rider of the fourth horse was riding a blood moon colored horse (in my opinion that is). What about those blood moons? I do not know because it is not my area of interest but someone might know how the blood moon ties to the fourth horseman.
Now back to Rev. 6:8 and how it ties to Rev. 12:7-11. Since we are looking at a series of events in which one thing goes into another then there is a natural flow of events as follows:
1st seal) Jesus riding the white horse lived in mortality conquering sin and death (Rev. 6:2), and the Savior is coming to conquer wickedness and evil from the earth.
2nd seal) The red dragon responded against Christ with as much destruction as possible for the past 2,000 years primarily using a beast to whom he gave power and in the end times a beast upon a red horse to whom he gives power (Rev. 6:4).
3rd seal) The angel Michael upon the black horse is tasked with removing the saints from danger and this is the rapture (Rev. 6:5-6).
4th seal) Now comes evidence of a possible error in the analysis and I thought about this all day long today. Actually, I resolved that my initial analysis was correct that the one riding the red horse was the beast as stated in item number 2 above. However, since in Rev. 6:2, 5 the rider of the white horse is Christ and the rider of the black horse is Michael, then the rider of the red horse in Rev. 6:4 must be the dragon and the rider of the pale horse in Rev. 6:8 is the beast.
Sorry about this error but I was thrown off by the "power" given to the rider of the red horse in Verse 6:4. Then I figured it out that the one giving power in Rev. 6:4 is God. That is, the dragon is empowered by God to do the destruction. Then in Rev. 6:8 the beast is empowered by the dragon as stated in Rev. 13. Nevertheless, Chapter 13 is still in the second seal because Rev. 6:4 tells us that the rider of the red horse (that I now have corrected to not be the beast but the dragon) is given a great sward. Thus, God gives the dragon power and God gives the dragon a beast. Thus, the rise of the Chapter 13 beast is in the second seal at Rev. 6:4 as the dragons great sward.
So sorry about that error and I did not know how to explain it so I just jumped in to show the error and hope that I could explain. So let's begin again and I will show the correction to wit:
1st seal) Jesus riding the white horse lived in mortality conquering sin and death (Rev. 6:2), and the Savior is coming to conquer wickedness and evil from the earth.
2nd seal) The red dragon responded against Christ with as much destruction as possible for the past 2,000 years having power given him by God. Additionally, the dragon that is the rider of the red horse was given a great sward that is the beast here in the end times (Rev. 6:4).
Thus, the rise of the beast as shown in Chapter 13 is here in the second seal at Verse 6:4.
3rd seal) The angel Michael upon the black horse is tasked with removing the saints from danger and this is the rapture (Rev. 6:5-6).
4th seal) Finely, the beast that is the rider of the pale horse and is called "death" here in Rev. 6:8 is followed by "hell" that is the false prophet. Again, the power that is given to the beast comes from the dragon (Rev. 13:2). However, now as shown in Verse 6:8, the false prophet also has power from the dragon and this is supported by Rev. 13:11-12 in that he speaks as a dragon and "exercises all the power of the first beast (that was) before him (KJV)."
In conclusion of the fourth seal, Rev. 6:8 connects to Rev. 12:7 in that the beast and his false prophet are in open warfare against God. Please notice that "the type" in Rev. 12:7-11 that is a war in heaven pertains to "the shadow" beginning at Rev. 6:8. That is, the war of Rev. 12:7-11 is substituted in place of the war as referenced in Rev. 6:8. Thus, they are in harmony showing the warfare between the beast and the 144,000; showing that Chapter 14 crosses from the 3rd seal into the 4th seal. However, it is not that the warfare is concluded in favor of Michael in the fourth seal but that the attack by the beast has begun. Now, as stated in Rev. 8:13, three woes remain and these appear to be seals 5-7.
One thing about the overlapping parenthetical chapters 7-11 and 13-19 is that the have parts that are past, present, and future. So while we may be at the 4th seal in the discussion, Chapter 14 is a third seal Chapter with parts past, present, and future. Thus, the future events of Chapter 14 when viewed from the perspective of the third seal are Rev. 14:8-20. As a result it becomes clear that the fall of Babylon in Rev. 14:8 is in the 4th seal (Rev. 6:8) showing that the fall of Babylon is here in the 4th seal. Consequently, Chapters 17 and 18 are in the 4th seal.
I had originally thought that the parenthetical chapters were in order but now I am finding that they are not. Notice that we have skipped over Chapters 15 and 16 that are at the end of Chapter 14 as viewed from the 3rd seal. So we have the rise of the beast in the second seal and that is Chapter 13, then the rapture in the third seal that included Chapters 7 and 14. However, these chapters should be viewed with past, present, and future tenses: especially Chapter 14. Then we have the fall of Babylon in the 4th seal that includes Chapters 17-18.
To be continued.
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