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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Aug 20, 2019 8:25:15 GMT -6
been following along and this was posted back a bit.
Something came to my mind: has anyone ever watched ants? This is how ants go about their "work'" ---------------/-\ This represents the trail to the ant hill. The path may be narrow, but a million ants travel single file as they travel to and from their home. They follow a very narrow trail set forth by the pervious ant, and very few stray from this line. In the nat geo films they show this. But for the sake of the whole passage let's read what else is said:
13“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14“For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Is it really saying that only a few will be saved here? It also says, many ENTER the WIDE gate of destruction, but to FIND the narrow gate is what is the problem, not entering it.
Put this statement in reverse. Wide is way to Life but narrow is the way to destruction.. meaning it is difficult to fail or be in darkness. Of course not! We know that the world and her beast systems touches all the senses of mankind, wooing and deceiving. So we know the way to destruction is not narrow. Wide and broad are the things that lead to darkness. But there is only one WAY for Life. A million ways to destruction, only One for Life. A million lords and idols that lead to destruction, only One who leads to Life. The reason few find it in the first place is because our temptations to do our own things or follow the things that are false is great. Once we FIND that narrow gate, the size of an eye of needle, that gate can be entered.
In an around this passage all talks about FOLLOWING the Lord, listening to Him, heeding His words. After this Jesus says this he warns against false prophets. Ask yourself why this warning? It is not the only place we get warnings like this. Why would one be deceived by a false prophet? I say, because one does not KNOW their shepherd's voice. Jesus is calling to the world, who will listen? And then He talks about what is a good foundation, rock or sand.. Tribulation (bad weather hits the house) and what house stands? The one built on the Rock. (God told Noah how to build his house, the Ark, God tells us the same thru His Son). DId NOah decided to build the ark? No, God TOLD him, and he obeyed...it was counted as righteous.
This all paints a picture that even the world being Saved, the world preferred the darkness,
9There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.
10He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
11He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.
12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
19“This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.
20“For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
21“But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
This to me, is the essence of repentance. Turn from the wide path of darkness and destruction of your flesh, so as to become born of God, coming to Him, and being of Him, and His Tree of good fruit He instills. But we often force to "make our own good fruit" based on our thoughts and desires we feel are right. Many practice being good, but can still not be following Him. This is why we are so cautioned about false teachers.
We are given the right to become Children of God not by our will, but of GOD's! Our faith is IN HIM and OF HIM for belief, not in ourselves to believe. There in lies the mystery, The mystery of lawlessness. Man is the image of God, yet even the SON obeyed the Father. The Son even acknowledged, but of my Father "I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear (hear Whom?) I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
Just when you think I am off topic for the mark, I will add that when we THINK (forehead) and do our self-assessment for reassurance, and initiate on our own will, and we DO things (hand) to appear "good" but is not wrought by God, we are still meandering around in our lawlessness. What Mark does one receive? The one of the Lord or the one of self? That is what the mark means to me.
to buy and sell with the mark is to make one's own decision for provisions, life's choices, choose our own fruit, etc. When we say to ourselves I will eat and partake my way, (sit as queen over our possessions, including our salvation) we are saying inwardly "I AM".
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Post by venge on Aug 20, 2019 11:12:33 GMT -6
barbiosheepgirlThere is that pride that slips in! That “I am” attitude that my ways are better than anyone else (including God). Wasn’t this the issue of the King of Tyre, King of Babylon, Pharaoh of Egypt and others that were all lifted up in pride and all were rich by their trades (buy/sell with nations). The same thing we see in mystery Babylon and the future mark.
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neural
Truth Seeker
Posts: 113
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Post by neural on Oct 17, 2019 21:34:18 GMT -6
Christ does say to hold fast those things you have and repent or he’ll remove your name from the book of life. The implication appears to mean you were in it, hence, you were saved. But sometime afterwards you fell and were removed. Otherwise, why would you be removed if always unsaved? You wouldn’t be written in it. I have personally gone back and forth on this. Venge: Some additional thoughts. The issue of "the book of life" came up for me recently, and I started to question how all of that works, because it *does* seem to indicate that a person who's name is in the "book of life" can then have it removed. I noticed when looking at the scripture that the subject is the Great White Throne Judgement. Revelation 20:12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." Notice that it says "the dead" Revelation 20:13-15: "13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." I would pose that a persons name is written in the book of life upon their conception, and that what we may be seeing here is a reference to those who are given eternal life. When we accept Christ, we gain eternal life. When we leave our sinful body, those who are still here on earth call that "death", but we, Christians, merely join those who were called home before us. We continue, alive and well, in a new body, beyond the veil. Those who die without having accepted the gift of Grace, die. They are bound for eternal separation from God. The 2nd Death. One could say that if you "die" here in the sinful world, and you have not accepted Christ, you then have eternal death. You go from the first death (death of the sinful nature) to the 2nd death (death of the part of us that is eternal). Thus, from the perspective of He who keeps the names in the "book of life", you are no longer alive, and thus your name is removed. So perhaps the removal is based on a persons salvation at the time their sinful body expires. Just thoughts. I could be wrong. |
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Post by mike on Oct 18, 2019 6:38:47 GMT -6
neural, I've felt similarly to most of what you said. You could also be right. We dont know and wont until its time. For this reason we shouldnt build doctrines on pieces of scripture that cannot be precisely correct. (Not that you are)
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Post by disciple4life on Oct 20, 2019 8:56:07 GMT -6
Hello friends,
Your brother from Tennessee, neural . I'm uploading a big batch of cheese grits. Very interesting post. There is a lot of topics in the opening thread. Squirrel. I'll pick the main topic, after I go on a very short rabbit trail. Something to think about.
In the opening post of the thread you said - Neural "The Bible is quite clear that anyone who takes the mark and worships the beast will be condemned to hell.
It's pretty strong language, and it is commonly taught that it is basically a way in which someone would lose their salvation."
I totally realize this is a whole other topic and other thread, and I certainly don't want to derail this one.  There a lot of different views on this, - I've been a part of 9 denominations. People often unwittingly use a phrase "lose your salvation" which is a garden path phrase/question- a question that is misleading or with built-in misinformation. - "Steve, have you stopped beating your wife?" Yes or no. - Another example is "Neural, Stormy, Do you think Hobbits and Palestinians should be given passports?" - Cwood, do you think the Temple will be built in the occupied territories this year? Each sentence has a fragment that is faulty, misleading or incorrect.
'Lose' is a lot like 'misplace'. You misplace your keys or one's smartphone. But you don't misplace your marriage or your house or your job. "Yeah, Chris, please pray for me, as I recently misplaced my marriage."
Regardless of one's views on the subject, it's better to use terms that are clear and neutral, especially from scripture. Depart from the faith, or fall from Grace, become a reprobate, backslide. In that case, - at least there can be a dialogue. ;-) ____________________________________________________________________________________ Regarding the Mark - Yes, it's a physical literal mark. - One of the basic principles of Biblical interpretation is that if the text seems to make literal sense, seek no other sense or it will be nonsense. - Another key principle is that you look at the context, and cross-reference scripture with other scripture. - The plain, literal meaning is most often the correct one. By the context, we know at the bare minimum that it's some kind of literal mark, - it's not symbolic. How?? Because the text is explicitly clear that this "Mark" will be on their right hand, or their forehead.
God put a literal mark on Cain. Why ? How do we know.? By the context - it was for his protection. Others would see and not kill him. To make something allegory or symbolic when the first literal sense makes clear sense, is violating basic Bible Interpretation. We have to be consistent in our method of interpretation. The passage is talking about the beast. Was this beast real? Yes. Was the fatal wound real/ literal wound? Yes. Was the buying in verse 17 real? "No one will be able to buy or to sell except the one who has the mark" Revelation 13:17 Obviously. What if someone suggested that this buying, was symbolic for greed, or materialism, - not actually exchanging of physical things such as food. Or that it is symbolic for lust. ??
You would say the person is an idiot. You would say the person is shredding Bible interpretation.  The text says the mark is on the right hand, or the forehead. No one has any basis for saying that the word "forehead" really means your heart. That is eisegesis - reading something into the text. Or imagine someone saying that the text clearly says right hand, but it really means 'the throne' because other passages say the 'right hand of God', so we can be clear that this means 'throne of God.'
From a perspective of basic Biblical interpretation, - if it were just symbolic for greed, pride, lust, some other sin, we're all guilty of that.
If that were the case- some symbolic meaning, why the warning not to 'receive the mark', and why the very tragic and specific consequences of accepting the mark.
Many Bible scholars and end-times teachers believe that this is most likely a micro-chip. Could it be some visible tattoo on your forehead? Yeah, but when you see that the technology is literally in use in the USA and Sweden, why would someone tattoo something on their forehead, that makes them look like an MS-13 convict.
Think about it for a moment. The Micro-chip is invisible, and can be injected under the skin, and can hold all your medical records, SS #, different security clearance levels for access to buildings, and be directly tied to your bank, and people use it to make purchases, and log-in and log out, and don't forget GPS tracking.  My mother used to work at Hobby Lobby, a Christian owned company. It's one of the biggest reasons they didn't use bar-codes, because of the connection to the Mark.
None of these things - uses, functions, methods of control, monitoring, tracking, banking, etc are possible with a visible tattoo, but all of these and many more are possible with the micro-chip. I'm not dogmatic, and I think we'll be gone anyway, but I think it's interesting to discuss and share ideas.
Enjoy the cheese grits.
Maranatha.
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Post by legster on Oct 30, 2019 7:37:10 GMT -6
Disciple4life, I also agree it seems highly likely that the mark will be a physical mark and the RFID implant seems most possible through our current understanding of technology. However the original poster was saying that if it is a physical implant, what is there to stop satan's henchmen grabbing the tribulation saints, and implanting them with the mark against their will?
If you look at Revelation 14:9, it says that whoever takes the mark AND worships the beast will suffer forever. Therefore I think it is possible that if you take the mark and worship Jesus as your lord i.e. if the mark is taken without your consent, or knowledge, the eternal damnation will not take effect.
Perhaps, by accepting Jesus as our savior it creates some kind of spiritual firewall against any negative effects of the implant, such as changing DNA or controlling the mind.
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Post by mike on Oct 30, 2019 8:20:54 GMT -6
welcome to Unsealed legster thanks for sharing your thought |
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Post by disciple4life on Oct 30, 2019 20:37:36 GMT -6
Disciple4life, I also agree it seems highly likely that the mark will be a physical mark and the RFID implant seems most possible through our current understanding of technology. However the original poster was saying that if it is a physical implant, what is there to stop satan's henchmen grabbing the tribulation saints, and implanting them with the mark against their will? If you look at Revelation 14:9, it says that whoever takes the mark AND worships the beast will suffer forever. Therefore I think it is possible that if you take the mark and worship Jesus as your lord i.e. if the mark is taken without your consent, or knowledge, the eternal damnation will not take effect. Perhaps, by accepting Jesus as our savior it creates some kind of spiritual firewall against any negative effects of the implant, such as changing DNA or controlling the mind. Hello Legster, Welcome to the Forum. Glad you joined us and are sharing some thoughts. I don't think tribulation saints would be physically grabbed and implanted with the mark against their will. For one, it would be nearly impossible to round up millions of people, and then, how would they know who the tribulation saints are. ??
But I do think you have a very good point. I would like to push it just a bit - if you don't mind. Rather than physically round up/ kidnap and detain and then force the mark on people, the way they enforce it is simply to make it so that you can't buy or sell - food, gas, clothing, electricity, fuel, etc. This would force the masses to comply. They feel they have to take it to survive.
This is yet another very compelling reason as to why Christians won't be here - we will be raptured first. Christians are aware of the mark and the Anti-Christ, and the two witnesses, and we have a precise day count. Once we saw the trigger - lets say the Ezekiel war against Israel breaks out and the Deal of the century was revealed which includes dividing Israel for the Jordanian arabs and we see the construction on the 3rd temple. OK, so the tribulation has started. Tens of millions of Christians would immediately begin stock piling, selling their boats and houses, and toys and extra cars and buying canned food and camping stoves and propane fuel, and generators. . Others who could would go off the grid- move out into the county, and raise livestock, chickens, goats, etc. to be self-sustaining, and most likely band together in small communes.
There are multiple references to the martyred saints in Revelation and it is the belief of countless Christians and even the mainstream view of multiple denominations that any who become Christians after the rapture will have to be martyred for their faith, and this is likely the way/ reason - failing to take the mark. When their stored food runs out, they can no longer survive without buying - or if they come to faith after the rapture, they most likely don't know about the mark and the anti-Christ, so they wouldn't be among the preppers, with 4 years of dried food. Those who refuse would most likely be martyred.
Doesn't look or sound anything remotely like a wedding celebration at all. The church is the bride of Christ, and the story of the 10 bridesmaids is a picture of the rapture. Why would the groom subject his bride to terror, torture, and fear? Does that sound like a reward, or in any way resemble a joyful wedding? In a traditional Jewish wedding, the groom takes his brides and hides her away in the chamber for 7 days, and then after that, they would come back out and join the guests at the marriage supper.
Some things about the end times we just can't/ won't know until God chooses to reveal it. I do believe that everyone- no matter what their positions are, will be surprised at how things all play out. No one has it all figured out.
Cheers, Disciple4life.
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Post by sog on Oct 31, 2019 15:15:54 GMT -6
In this short video from Barry Scarbrough he talks about the ID2020 Alliance & Governance. A global partnership of major companies coming together to create a worldwide digital ID and will eventually force everyone to be injected with a microchip under the guise of immunization shots. He says that they are already injecting the poor in many places. This is their site - id2020.org/In this link they make it sound like it's a fundamental right that we must have. Their 10 point manifesto. A mix of Techno/politco/legal mumbo-jumbo to make it sound all wonderful. id2020.org/manifestoA statement from their site - "A unique convergence of trends provides an unprecedented opportunity to make a coordinated, concerted push to provide digital ID to everyone." Also, in September 2015, all United Nations member states adopted the 2030 Sustainable Development Goals, including their commitment to “provide legal identity for all, including birth registration” by 2030. None of this should be taken lightly. If we are somehow still here when this starts, it should be rejected. Barry also talks a little about Russia continuing to form alliances with Sudan and Libya as the final two pieces of the Ezekiel 38 war. |
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Post by disciple4life on Oct 31, 2019 21:36:49 GMT -6
Wow, sog. Totally mindnumbing. This fits exactly with what legster posted and i shared about the government enforcing the mark. You won't even be able to get a job without it and since it's tied to your bank, you literally can't buy or sell. It's crypto currency. The really scary thing is how they are doing this under the guise of vaccinations. Just see how many Christians give you grief when you say you're against vaccinations. Even now a lot of schools require vaccinations to register. Talk about pressure. I love what he said- "If you have to ask if we are in the tribulation, you're not." If it were here, we would know it beyond any doubt. |
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Post by sog on Oct 31, 2019 23:31:22 GMT -6
Wow, sog . Totally mindnumbing. This fits exactly with what legster posted and i shared about the government enforcing the mark. You won't even be able to get a job without it and since it's tied to your bank, you literally can't buy or sell. It's crypto currency. The really scary thing is how they are doing this under the guise of vaccinations. Just see how many Christians give you grief when you say you're against vaccinations. Even now a lot of schools require vaccinations to register. Talk about pressure. I love what he said- "If you have to ask if we are in the tribulation, you're not." If it were here, we would know it beyond any doubt. , Yes crazy to think about. Imagine losing your job, your kids not able to attend school (maybe your thrown in jail because of this), Not being able to travel (at least by airplane), not being able to go to the store for food and basic necessities, etc. all because you refuse to get vaccinated (read chipped). I can't imagine the catastrophic effect this would have on a family and/or individual. And yet God says to remain faithful throughout. Talk about a test of all tests. Pray that we would not have to endure this, but if we do, God will be with us. As for what you quoted Barry about tribulation... I'm not completely convinced yet that we are or are not in tribulation. I can see arguments on both sides. I don't know. I'm not sure what the Revelation 12 sign meant yet. Are we going to see this Ezekiel 38 war? Damascus destroyed? The Peace Plan confirmed? The son of perdition revealed? I make a distinction between tribulation and Great Tribulation/Wrath of God (later 3.5 years of the 7 year trib). I know some don't, or think we are not appointed to any type of tribulation. That's ok, I could be wrong. But if we are now in the first half of tribulation, maybe since the Rev. 12 sign, then I think around early March 2020 should be a very high "watch" time. My gut, or the Holy Spirit speaking to me, tells me we are not quite there yet, but again I could be wrong. The thing is, these world events are happening at an alarmingly fast pace now. I pray for more eyes to be opened. |
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Post by raindrop on Nov 1, 2019 3:38:35 GMT -6
neural, venge, mike, cwood85, Imagine if this Seattle false flag stuff is really real? Convincing people that a nuclear weapon had been used? Imagine the fear? 9/11 on steroids. I am hard pushed to believe that Almighty God would allow true believers to be present at that game, when the attack happens. Be that as it may - a catastrophic event would enable the powers that be to implement anything they want. Because I believe that prophecy is Middle East specific, I used to be convinced that The Mark would be an Islamic headband or wrist band. Now - I don't know. If an attack takes place on American soil first (as opposed to Israel with Ezekiel 38 and Isaiah 17) then an implantable chip is not beyond the realms of the imagination. The internet will still be functioning as it is now. The satellites will still be in place etc. A false flag attack on America or some other western ally, would create the perfect storm. What a nightmare!! I believe we are very, very close.
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Post by legster on Nov 1, 2019 17:37:08 GMT -6
Disciple4life, I agree that by forcing people to take the mark in order to be able to buy and sell, (i.e eat), the masses will be forced to take the mark. However we know that many of the people who come to faith after the rapture are beheaded for their testimony.
Satan knows that by beheading these people they will be martyrs and guaranteed eternal life in heaven, so why doesn't he just give them the mark instead so they would then sent to hell? (possibly by injection as some sources now believe). He must have access to them to behead them. I think this must mean that the only reason people are martyred is because the mark cannot be given forcibly, or if it is given forcibly, it doesn't work. I think it must be to do with freewill. By freewill we choose salvation, and thus God who is perfect in his fairness, will only allow damnation by a freewill choice.
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Post by disciple4life on Nov 1, 2019 20:48:20 GMT -6
Disciple4life, I agree that by forcing people to take the mark in order to be able to buy and sell, (i.e eat), the masses will be forced to take the mark. However we know that many of the people who come to faith after the rapture are beheaded for their testimony. Satan knows that by beheading these people they will be martyrs and guaranteed eternal life in heaven, so why doesn't he just give them the mark instead so they would then sent to hell? (possibly by injection as some sources now believe). He must have access to them to behead them. I think this must mean that the only reason people are martyred is because the mark cannot be given forcibly, or if it is given forcibly, it doesn't work. I think it must be to do with freewill. By freewill we choose salvation, and thus God who is perfect in his fairness, will only allow damnation by a freewill choice. Hello Legster, Not sure if you're my brother or sister. ;-) I agree. I think it's one of the things that we can't be totally sure about but here's my take. Based on a few scriptures and this line of reasoning.
1. I think Satan wishes/ wants to force the Tribulation saints to take the Mark and thus be eternally damned. But he can't. Why?? Because of Luke 10:19- Christ said "Behold I give unto you- [Christians] power to tread on serpents [Satan] and scorpians and power over all the enemy and nothing shall by any means harm you. He has a lot of power, but we have spiritual authority over him.
I think he'll use the fear of death to cause many to take the mark - and damn their soul.
Then, also, - the other reason I don't think they can physically force anyone to take it, is why the warning not to take it and the consequences of those who do?? ? Why the sobering warning not to accept the mark and the consequence if you couldn't do anything to prevent it.
It's rather like warning- whatever happens, don't breathe oxygen or don't let gravity keep you on earth.
I definitely agree 100% that it has to do with freewill. That's another reason that supports the widely taught view that the only way to become a Tribulation saint [except for the Jewish people - whose collective eyes will be opened] is to pay the ultimate price - to be martyred. It also fits perfectly with the part about the ones "who come to faith after the rapture are beheaded for their testimony."
Its yet another in the very long list of reasons why we will be raptured before the tribulation. *** Just think about this, and it will rent space in your head.
How much more powerful - the shocking realization of the graves opened, and the tens of millions missing, - including my crazy Aunt Sally, and my crazy Grandpa Ed, who always told me he was praying for me, and my crazy co-worker - that Scots-Irish-French-American-Jewish, Polish speaking guy who warned me about this, and left me this letter. [He thought vaccines were dangerous. LOL.] I only kept it because he promised me I would keep the letter. hmmmmm.
barbiosheepgirl,venge,neural,mike,disciple4life,legster,sog,raindrop,barbiosheepgirl,venge,neural,mike,disciple4life,legster,sog,raindrop,barbiosheepgirl,venge,neural,mike,disciple4life,legster,sog,raindrop,
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Post by venge on Nov 2, 2019 8:17:38 GMT -6
disciple4lifeYou said we rapture before Tribulation? Matthew 24 says: 13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. So if Christ spoke to his disciples when he would return to save us, he says it is at the end. How is it the end if 7 years remain? As other example include, those who believe are resurrected at the last day. How is it the end or the last day if 3.5 years or 7 years are still left, assuming you are taken and changed? If the time of the gentiles hasn’t ended, it ain’t the end. And this was spoken to believers whether Jew or Gentile, all Christians of the seed of faith. If you notice in Rev 14:6 the gospel is preached after the 144k are sealed and then Judgment comes. Not beforehand. And the judgment that comes is not on man, but on Babylon. Man’s come in the harvest. You May take the Trumpets as symbols of God’s wrath. I take them as symbols of God warning us. The trumpet served both purposes. God wants all to escape and come to him, even at the end. That’s why it’s mentioned, here is the patience of the saints... The Trumpets function as a warning, while the bowls that the remnant of earth drinks is not mixed with water and diluted. No, it’s not diluted and it’s full wrath. When the Trumpets are sounded, they were to call an assembly and gather the people. To repent and pray. Constantly in Rev we see messages of that saying the people didn’t repent. Have you given thought when the last day is and used scripture to find it?
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There a lot of different views on this, - I've been a part of 9 denominations. 
