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Post by mike on Jul 16, 2019 13:25:28 GMT -6
I figured the title might grab enough attention to get a few views and replies. I dont watch the Bachelor or related show, but cruising through news sites this article caught my attention. It is about a contestant on the Bachelorette who was sent home due to his values. The resultant dialogue between the two is what I wanted to hone in on. While the man (Luke) maintained he was saving himself for marriage, the woman (Hannah) maintained that Jesus still loves her despite her having sex twice (on the show, I think?). Interested in hearing others thoughts on this fine line. On one side we have a man desiring to follow the Lord's will and not having relations with a woman outside of marriage, while the woman seems adamant about her relation to Jesus being just fine with a statement of 'even though I had sex, Jesus still loves me". She compared her sin to what she identifies in him is the sin of pride of being the same in Gods eyes If faced with a similar situation or line of questioning what say you? How do you respond to someone who 'confronts' you with something similar, like "are you sinless?" or "don't you still make mistakes?"
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Post by Natalie on Jul 16, 2019 14:58:42 GMT -6
Shall we sin that grace may abound?
It sounds to me, without reading the article yet, that one of these has a relationship with the Lord and one does not. I am not saying she is not saved. You can be saved and not have a relationship with Him.
I'll read the article and come back if I have further thoughts...since you did have specific questions at the end of your post.
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Post by mike on Jul 16, 2019 16:50:44 GMT -6
Natalie, maybe it'll help if I explain a bit further why I ask. Most of the people I associate with are either non-believers or like you said "not in a relationship" with the Lord. So this question and others like it do come up. The girl in this story isn't wrong, Jesus always loves us
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Post by Natalie on Jul 16, 2019 17:13:02 GMT -6
I see where you are coming from.
I think back to when I was in college. That would probably be the time when I was around more non-believers. A lot of my choices seemed "weird". Sure I make mistakes, but I try to live to honor Him. There are things that I know that are not honoring, so I try to stay away from those. It's not that I am better than anyone else. And if I mess up then I ask for forgiveness. He loves me no matter what, but I am not free to live my life however I want because ultimately I belong to Him.
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Post by venge on Jul 18, 2019 11:06:48 GMT -6
I figured the title might grab enough attention to get a few views and replies. I dont watch the Bachelor or related show, but cruising through news sites this article caught my attention. It is about a contestant on the Bachelorette who was sent home due to his values. The resultant dialogue between the two is what I wanted to hone in on. While the man (Luke) maintained he was saving himself for marriage, the woman (Hannah) maintained that Jesus still loves her despite her having sex twice (on the show, I think?). Interested in hearing others thoughts on this fine line. On one side we have a man desiring to follow the Lord's will and not having relations with a woman outside of marriage, while the woman seems adamant about her relation to Jesus being just fine with a statement of 'even though I had sex, Jesus still loves me". She compared her sin to what she identifies in him is the sin of pride of being the same in Gods eyes If faced with a similar situation or line of questioning what say you? How do you respond to someone who 'confronts' you with something similar, like "are you sinless?" or "don't you still make mistakes?" Its funny I just saw this, as I saw the video on Fox news yesterday. I had mentioned it to my mother who is visiting. My thought was this: Regardless of how Luke was, I don't watch the show so I don't know how he has been, Hannah said she was still loved by Jesus. The way I see it, she is correct. Jesus still loves her though she is a sinner. Obviously she recognizes her sin as she says what it is and has done it twice. What she doesn't recognize is that her mouth is equally sinful. She blasphemes God's name in vain, and she continually curses. And though there lay much scripture proving it, I leave you with James 3:2-12 And out of this Hannah who says she is a blessed by the father yet her tongue is full of venom. How can her as a fountain be both fresh and salt? It cannot. It is only salt and unfit to drinking. A Christian cannot condemn, curse, agitate or harass with their tongue. The other problem lay with Hannah's understanding. Jesus may love you still as he loved the sinner, but he hated the sin. Hannah did not repent. She had committed whoredom and is not ashamed. A Christian with the Holy Spirit would feel ashamed. Sin is separation from God, why would she think sinning left her in God's good graces? She willfully sinned and enjoyed it so much as she boasted about it. She loved the sin more than God. Now, we all fall and make mistakes, but do we glorify the sin...I hope not. If I was younger, I may have been like Luke but didn't care and looked at her beauty and didn't care what she did. That would be my mistake caused by infatuation or lust. Now, I would see through her looks and see that she is part of the world. Christian in title. She may believe, its possible... and I would pray for her. I would like to pray for her and be a light for her. None of us are perfect and we all continue to grow, some faster then others, some farther then others. Today, she would not interest me. Her motivation is not God first, but her own inclinations. Truly, her story is a sad testament to her faith. I don't see in her good fruit. I also think of Matthew 13:20-22 Is she the seed that fell amonst thorns or the ones that fell upon stony places....
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Post by venge on Jul 18, 2019 11:22:19 GMT -6
Shall we sin that grace may abound? It sounds to me, without reading the article yet, that one of these has a relationship with the Lord and one does not. I am not saying she is not saved. You can be saved and not have a relationship with Him. I'll read the article and come back if I have further thoughts...since you did have specific questions at the end of your post. I don't know...I also think of these verses: Does someone who is saved, but does NOT the will of Christ Father....go to heaven? I would say no. Even people who claim they are Christian, that they believe and are saved, that cast out devils all in the name of Christ. And he says I never knew you...depart into everlasting fire. Why? Because they did not the will of his Father. Christ mention's if you love him, do his Fathers will in another verse....and what is his Father's will? To do the Lord's commandments AND faith in Christ Jesus. So if you only have faith and do not the commandments....how great is your faith? EDIT: I know the thief on the cross had no time to do God's commandments after he had faith in Christ. But he was repentant and did not commit any more iniquity thereby doing God's commandments because after his faith, he did not brake any. But I agree, shall we sin that grace may abound...what a great comment by Paul. Hannah is liken to James 1:23 This is they that are 5 virgins. They claimed themselves to Christ yet they have no oil. How can they have oil if they still commit iniquity? That is not sinning as we all do, but are unrepentant and don't grow. Its like a tree that bares no fruit that its only use is to hew it down and cast it to the fire.
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Post by mike on Jul 18, 2019 20:37:48 GMT -6
Thanks venge ...really just wanted to understand how others see this. I appreciate your input and the references. Another is brought to mind 2Tim 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
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Post by mike on Jul 18, 2019 20:44:42 GMT -6
93 adikía (a feminine noun derived from 1 /A "not" and 1349 /díkē, "justice") – properly, the opposite of justice; unrighteousness, as a violation of God's standards (justice) which brings divine disapproval; a count (violation) of God's justice, i.e. what is contrary to His righteous judgments (what He approves).
NAS Exhaustive Concordance Word Origin from adikos Definition injustice, unrighteousness NASB Translation doing wrong (1), evildoers (1), iniquities (1), iniquity (2), injustice (1), unrighteous (2), unrighteousness (12), wickedness (4), wrong (1).
Thayer's Greek Lexicon STRONGS NT 93: ἀδικία
ἀδικία, (ας, ἡ (ἄδικος) (from Herodotus down); 1. injustice, of a judge: Luke 18:6; Romans 9:14.
2. unrighteousness of heart and life;
a. universally: Matthew 23:25 Griesbach; Acts 8:23 (see σύνδεσμος); Romans 1:18, 29; Romans 2:8; Romans 6:13; 2 Timothy 2:19; opposed to ἡ ἀλήθεια, 1 Corinthians 13:6; 2 Thessalonians 2:12; opposed to ἡ δικαιοσύνη, Romans 3:5; Hebrews 1:9 Tdf.; owing to the context, the guilt of unrighteousness, 1 John 1:9; ἀπάτη τῆς ἀδικίας deceit which unrighteousness uses, 2 Thessalonians 2:10; μισθός ἀδικίας reward (i. e., penalty) due to unrighteousness, 2 Peter 2:13 (see ἀδικέω, 2 b. at the end).
b. specifically, unrighteousness by which others are deceived: John 7:18 (opposed to ἀληθής); μαμωνᾶς τῆς ἀδικίας deceitful riches, Luke 16:9 (cf. ἀπάτη τοῦ πλούτου, Matthew 13:22; others think 'riches wrongly acquired'; (others, riches apt to be used unrighteously; cf. Matthew 13:8 and Meyer at the passage)); κόσμος τῆς ἀδικίας, a phrase having reference to sins of the tongue, James 3:6 (cf. κόσμος, James 3:8); treachery, Luke 16:8 (οἰκονόμος τῆς ἀδικίας (others take it generally, 'acting unrighteously')).
3. a deed violating law and justice, act of unrighteousness: πᾶσα ἀδικία ἁμαρτία ἐστι, 1 John 5:17; ἐργάται τῆς ἀδικίας, Luke 13:27 αἱ ἀδικίαι iniquities, misdeeds, Hebrews 8:12 (from the Sept. Jeremiah 38:34 (); cf. Daniel 4:20 (24)); μισθός ἀδικίας reward obtained by wrong-doing, Acts 1:18; 2 Peter 2:15; specifically, the wrong of depriving another of what is his, 2 Corinthians 12:13 (where a favor is ironically called ἀδικία.
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance iniquity, unrighteousness, wrong. From adikos; (legal) injustice (properly, the quality, by implication, the act); morally, wrongfulness (of character, life or act) -- iniquity, unjust, unrighteousness, wrong.
see GREEK adikos
Forms and Transliterations αδικια αδικία ἀδικία ἀδικίᾳ αδικιαις αδικίαις ἀδικίαις αδικιαν αδικίαν ἀδικίαν αδικιας αδικίας αδίκιας ἀδικίας αδικιών adikia adikía adikíāi adikiais adikíais adikian adikían adikias adikías Links Interlinear Greek • Interlinear Hebrew • Strong's Numbers • Englishman's Greek Concordance • Englishman's Hebrew Concordance • Parallel Texts Englishman's Concordance Luke 13:27 N-GFS GRK: πάντες ἐργάται ἀδικίας NAS: FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.' KJV: all [ye] workers of iniquity. INT: all [you] workers of unrighteousness Luke 16:8 N-GFS GRK: οἰκονόμον τῆς ἀδικίας ὅτι φρονίμως NAS: praised the unrighteous manager KJV: commended the unjust steward, INT: manager unrighteous because shrewdly
Luke 16:9 N-GFS GRK: μαμωνᾶ τῆς ἀδικίας ἵνα ὅταν NAS: of the wealth of unrighteousness, so KJV: the mammon of unrighteousness; that, INT: money of unrighteousness that when
Luke 18:6 N-GFS GRK: κριτὴς τῆς ἀδικίας λέγει NAS: Hear what the unrighteous judge said; KJV: Hear what the unjust judge saith. INT: judge unrighteous says
John 7:18 N-NFS GRK: ἐστιν καὶ ἀδικία ἐν αὐτῷ NAS: and there is no unrighteousness in Him. KJV: and no unrighteousness is in INT: is and unrighteousness in him
Acts 1:18 N-GFS GRK: μισθοῦ τῆς ἀδικίας καὶ πρηνὴς NAS: with the price of his wickedness, and falling KJV: the reward of iniquity; and INT: reward of unrighteousness and headlong
Acts 8:23 N-GFS GRK: καὶ σύνδεσμον ἀδικίας ὁρῶ σε NAS: and in the bondage of iniquity. KJV: and [in] the bond of iniquity. INT: and a bond of unrighteousness I see you
Romans 1:18 N-AFS GRK: ἀσέβειαν καὶ ἀδικίαν ἀνθρώπων τῶν NAS: ungodliness and unrighteousness of men KJV: and unrighteousness of men, INT: ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who
Romans 1:18 N-DFS GRK: ἀλήθειαν ἐν ἀδικίᾳ κατεχόντων NAS: the truth in unrighteousness, KJV: the truth in unrighteousness; INT: truth by unrighteousness suppress
Romans 1:29 N-DFS GRK: πεπληρωμένους πάσῃ ἀδικίᾳ πονηρίᾳ πλεονεξίᾳ NAS: with all unrighteousness, wickedness, KJV: all unrighteousness, fornication, INT: being filled with all unrighteousness wickedness covetousness
Romans 2:8 N-DFS GRK: δὲ τῇ ἀδικίᾳ ὀργὴ καὶ NAS: but obey unrighteousness, wrath KJV: obey unrighteousness, indignation INT: however unrighteousness wrath and
Romans 3:5 N-NFS GRK: δὲ ἡ ἀδικία ἡμῶν θεοῦ NAS: But if our unrighteousness demonstrates KJV: our unrighteousness commend INT: moreover the unrighteousness of us God's
Romans 6:13 N-GFS GRK: ὑμῶν ὅπλα ἀδικίας τῇ ἁμαρτίᾳ NAS: [as] instruments of unrighteousness; but present KJV: [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: INT: of you instruments of unrighteousness to sin
Romans 9:14 N-NFS GRK: ἐροῦμεν μὴ ἀδικία παρὰ τῷ NAS: There is no injustice with God, KJV: [Is there] unrighteousness with INT: will we say not injustice with
1 Corinthians 13:6 N-DFS GRK: ἐπὶ τῇ ἀδικίᾳ συνχαίρει δὲ NAS: does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices KJV: not in iniquity, but rejoiceth INT: at unrighteousness rejoices with however
2 Corinthians 12:13 N-AFS GRK: μοι τὴν ἀδικίαν ταύτην NAS: to you? Forgive me this wrong! KJV: me this wrong. INT: me the injustice this
2 Thessalonians 2:10 N-GFS GRK: πάσῃ ἀπάτῃ ἀδικίας τοῖς ἀπολλυμένοις NAS: the deception of wickedness for those KJV: deceivableness of unrighteousness in INT: every deceit of unrighteousness them that perish
2 Thessalonians 2:12 N-DFS GRK: εὐδοκήσαντες τῇ ἀδικίᾳ NAS: but took pleasure in wickedness. KJV: had pleasure in unrighteousness. INT: having delighted in unrighteousness
2 Timothy 2:19 N-GFS GRK: Ἀποστήτω ἀπὸ ἀδικίας πᾶς ὁ NAS: is to abstain from wickedness. KJV: depart from iniquity. INT: Let depart from unrighteousness everyone who
Hebrews 8:12 N-DFP GRK: ἔσομαι ταῖς ἀδικίαις αὐτῶν καὶ NAS: FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR INIQUITIES, AND I WILL REMEMBER KJV: to their unrighteousness, and INT: I will be to the iniquities of them and
James 3:6 N-GFS GRK: κόσμος τῆς ἀδικίας ἡ γλῶσσα NAS: the [very] world of iniquity; the tongue KJV: a world of iniquity: so INT: world of unrighteousness the tongue
2 Peter 2:13 N-GFS GRK: ἀδικούμενοι μισθὸν ἀδικίας ἡδονὴν ἡγούμενοι NAS: as the wages of doing wrong. They count KJV: the reward of unrighteousness, [as] they that count INT: Suffering wrong [the] reward of unrighteousness pleasure esteeming
2 Peter 2:15 N-GFS GRK: ὃς μισθὸν ἀδικίας ἠγάπησεν NAS: loved the wages of unrighteousness; KJV: loved the wages of unrighteousness; INT: who [the] reward of unrighteousness loved
1 John 1:9 N-GFS GRK: ἀπὸ πάσης ἀδικίας NAS: us from all unrighteousness. KJV: from all unrighteousness. INT: from all unrighteousness
1 John 5:17 N-NFS GRK: πᾶσα ἀδικία ἁμαρτία ἐστίν NAS: All unrighteousness is sin, KJV: All unrighteousness is sin: INT: Every unrighteousness sin is
Strong's Greek 93 25 Occurrences
ἀδικία — 9 Occ. ἀδικίαις — 1 Occ. ἀδικίαν — 2 Occ. ἀδικίας — 13 Occ.
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Post by boraddict on Jul 18, 2019 21:50:22 GMT -6
My close friend that is now 70 years old told me recently that when she was 14 she got pregnant and had to go to Mexico for an abortion. In contrast, my other close friend that is now 68 years old, told me last week that when she was 17 she got pregnant and gave the baby boy up for adoption. This friend had a family reunion this past weekend and who was the guest of honor? None other than that man, her son who is now 51 years old and has a daughter who is married with a baby on the way. He and his wife and daughter came to Idaho from California to see their estranged family. His daughter and wife did some research to find his birth mother, my friend. Whom I might add has several other children now grown and married as well as married grandchildren and many great grand children. This was a big event to have these new members of their family come to meet everyone.
To pull it off both of my friends were together, one supporting the other. Nevertheless, this is why sex before marriage is not a good idea. So we have one infant who died with nothing of a remembrance, and one that lived to now be a member of the family. These are all great people with one grand daughter having a horse ranch, a daughter that is a real estate agent, daughter that has a hair salon, and so much more. So while sex before marriage will always be with us, the consequences can be so destructive.
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Post by venge on Jul 19, 2019 15:25:14 GMT -6
My close friend that is now 70 years old told me recently that when she was 14 she got pregnant and had to go to Mexico for an abortion. In contrast, my other close friend that is now 68 years old, told me last week that when she was 17 she got pregnant and gave the baby boy up for adoption. This friend had a family reunion this past weekend and who was the guest of honor? None other than that man, her son who is now 51 years old and has a daughter who is married with a baby on the way. He and his wife and daughter came to Idaho from California to see their estranged family. His daughter and wife did some research to find his birth mother, my friend. Whom I might add has several other children now grown and married as well as married grandchildren and many great grand children. This was a big event to have these new members of their family come to meet everyone. To pull it off both of my friends were together, one supporting the other. Nevertheless, this is why sex before marriage is not a good idea. So we have one infant who died with nothing of a remembrance, and one that lived to now be a member of the family. These are all great people with one grand daughter having a horse ranch, a daughter that is a real estate agent, daughter that has a hair salon, and so much more. So while sex before marriage will always be with us, the consequences can be so destructive. I can only speak for myself, but when I was dating my wife...sex before marriage was tough!!!!!! Sorry ladies, but as a guy....its one of the hardest things I have ever faced in life. I dated my wife years before we got married and this is one reason people slip up. I don't think relationships were meant to last years till marriage so that a couple that loves each other can have sex. Things get in the way, college, a career etc...you want to date others to make sure this is the right girl or guy....there is a list of issues. People keep pushing it back farther and turn to dating with benefits. If we date to get married to that special someone, sacrifices are made that I think in today's world...people find very difficult to do. "I don't wanna give up my job to wait more years" etc...No longer do boy and girl grow up in a small town and can get hitched early on, build your house on a lot and start a family. There's college, then graduate degree, then start at a job for 1 year, then I will be not seeing friends much or going out to parties because I am married ( boo hoo)...all these things people think... Im glad I don't have to do it all over again! lol
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Post by boraddict on Jul 19, 2019 23:02:45 GMT -6
The system that we use for finding a mate is so very out of wack. I would say that it is messed up as much as the country in general is messed up. For starters the man is the head of the family and his wife is his co-equal helper. Thus, together they are a team to raise a family for God. Within this family the children fall under the leadership of their father and mother. Since the father is accountable to God for the care and welfare of the family then the father has the honor and privilege to find and give his daughters in marriage to suitable young men that would in turn be good husbands and fathers to his daughters and grandchildren.
The daughters can of course reject the man that is chosen by her father and send him searching again. If the daughter has a man in mind then the father by obligation must make sure that that prospective son in law is acceptable to the family. Naturally, behind the scene the mother is guiding her husband to do that which is right for her daughter. In the end everyone is happy. The father fulfills his responsibility to the family, the daughter is happy that her father has procured for her a good husband, and the mother is happy that her husband listens and is guided by her much better instincts for finding a good husband for her daughter.
Thus, at the marriage for the daughter, the father gives his daughter away to another man to start the cycle over again.
It is all so very nice and neat. No worries about jobs, housing, premarital sex, etc. I am sure that the mother is looking for some man for her daughter that can support her grandchildren. Sorry guys, you better work hard to attract these great women.
In the end it is the women who decide but we let the men think that they are in charge of the marriage contract.
The real problem throughout time is that Satan has caused this perfect marriage system to get abused and we all know stories about young girls being given to old men. What kind of father would do such a thing to his daughter. Secondly, what kind of father would not first consider the hopes and desires of his daughter. To do anything less for her is grounds of condemnation upon his head by God. In fact, the system has become so perverted that the women have lost all their God given rights with regard to the perfect marriage system. Just look at the abuse of the men over the women where a satanic system mimicking this perfect system exists. They even believe that the women can be beaten, burned, condemned, and so much more. Where are the good fathers in those countries? Almost non existent and that is another good reason to justify their destruction.
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