Post by stormyknight on Jul 11, 2019 8:21:44 GMT -6
I see your point, venge. I'm going to do some digging as I have time. But I'm thinking there must be something in Scripture that will tell us who the restrainer is. We know it's a He for sure and we know that Paul told the Thessalonians who it was.
"Do you not remember that I told you these things while I was still with you? And you know what is now restraining him, so that he will be revealed at the proper time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way.…" 1 Thess. 2:5-8
what, the one who, and, he = the restrainer
him = the man of lawlessness
it = the mystery of lawlessness
If anyone already knows the verse Paul is talking about, please save me the time. But I'm going digging.
"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life." John 5:24
The best interpretive option is that the restrainer mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7 is the Holy Spirit. There are two primary reasons for reaching this conclusion. First, the force restraining the Antichrist must be more powerful than Satan. According to 2 Thessalonians 2:9, the Antichrist will be Satan's masterpiece who will be directly controlled and empowered by Satan himself. Thus, the restrainer must be powerful enough to prevent Satan from unleashing the Antichrist onto the world scene until the proper time. Only deity possessing the attribute of omnipotence ("all power") has unlimited power. Certainly the Holy Spirit meets this criterion since He is full deity (Acts 5:3-4).
Second, the Greek participle "restrainer" is neuter in 2 Thessalonians 2:6 and masculine in verse 7. Identifying the restrainer as the Holy Spirit handles well this abrupt transition from the neuter to the masculine gender. The Greek word for Spirit is pneuma, which is a neuter noun. Moreover, in the Upper Room Discourse, Jesus identified the Holy Spirit with the masculine personal pronoun "him" or "he." For example, in John 14:17, Christ said,
"that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you."
The Holy Spirit is designated by the personal pronoun "he" in other sections of the same discourse (John 15:26; 16:13-14).
Why then did Paul simply not use the words "Holy Spirit" in 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7? In Scripture, it is common for the Holy Spirit to be identified by a particular ministry that He provides. In John 14:17, the Holy Spirit is identified by His ministry of truth. In John 14:26, He is identified by His ministry as a helper. In Romans 8:2, He is identified by His ministry of providing spiritual life. The Holy Spirit has a role in restraining evil in the world (Gen. 6:3). Thus, in 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7, Paul similarly points out the restraining ministry of the Holy Spirit without expressly mentioning the specific name "Holy Spirit."
Security Threat Was Reason for Pence's NH Cancellation: Officials
President Donald Trump told reporters Friday that there was a "very interesting problem that they had in New Hampshire, but I can’t tell you about it"
Salem Police don't know what threat to VP was
SALEM, N.H. — Salem police remain unaware of a supposed local threat to Vice President Mike Pence's planned visit to town last Tuesday.
After days of uncertainty about the cancellation, President Donald Trump on Friday told reporters in Washington there was “a very interesting problem that they had in New Hampshire, but I can’t tell you about it,” he said. “There was a problem up there, and I won’t go into what the problem was, but you’ll see in about a week or two."
davewatchman , said “The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast.
I don't think the 10 are at the start, nor in the mid point. Because they operate for one hour, one "hora", Until God's Word is fulfilled.
Fulfillment comes at the end. The final hour. Which because of that word "hora", probably is not a literal 60 minutes.
Amen on the "probably is not a literal 60 minutes" . Also, is not the last kingdom before the Stone Kingdom made up of clay and iron? so it sounds to me we should keep our eyes on the status of FAITH around the world. This verse dave put forth reads to me that there is not a literal kingdom for these 10 kings because they merely act as kings so is a kingdomless situation. Makes sense to me because the beast (system) is not something that can be observed per se. Remember we are seeing the SPIRITUAL explanation of what is going on. The "hour" not a physical hour but a "short time" … and recall those who stood in front of Jesus the first time and did not recognize the TIME of their visitation.
Same thing is playing out right now. Im with dave on this one..
I'm with Dave on this one too.
But i'm biased.
For now anyway.
Thanks for the kind words Barb.
It sounds like a good idea to remember the clay and the iron kingdoms. The many nations and peoples and tongues. Diverse earthquakes for diverse nations in diverse places. We sure did fill up the world.
And i think it's a good idea to consider the possibility of a spiritual explanation. It might pay to be at least cognizant to the possible probability of the spiritual intertwining itself with the literal. As i think literal fire will fall from heaven that is caused by a spiritual beast with two horns like a Lamb, but speaks like a Dragon.
And never forget "those who stood in front of Jesus the first time and did not recognize the TIME of their visitation. I agree. Similar to how it is now. Where preconceptions are put on a pedestal replacing the truth that stood before them. The same thing might be playing out right now again, but on a much bigger scale. And with the Kingdom of God in our midst once again.
Imagine that poor pharisee standing right in front of Jesus. And Jesus telling him that the Kingdom of God was in his midst. It's like He was telling him, the Kingdom of God is standing right in front of you.
"nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst."
It was so close that the pharisee could reach out and touch the Kingdom, looking right into His eyes. Talk about a gnashing of the teeth moment for that pharisee when they replay that one. And imagine we might be at that point again where He's right at the door, and the Kingdom of God is at hand again.
I was looking at this thread.
UNSEALED DISCUSSION BOARD Apologetics & Bible The wind bloweth where it will
But i was thinking about how different my take on the Kingdom was. Where it is and what it will be like and how we might be and what we will do. I don't think i can say without causing consternation. It would be like fingernails on the chalk board deal. I think it's going to be different from what the other people on that thread think. Way different. We might not have to go Home, but we can't stay here. Heaven must receive HIM, until the time comes to restore ALL things.
Behold, He makes ALL things new. Not until Revelation 21.
"For he must remain in heaven until the time for the final restoration of all things, as God promised long ago through his holy prophets. - NLT
"And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true. - Revelation 21.
Heaven is a physical place. Heaven is not very far away. At the seventh trumpet, God's Temple will be opened. The Ark of His Covenant will be visible to the human eye here on Earth. New Jerusalem is cloaked in an orbit abound Earth. It took Gabriel 3.5 minutes to get here at Daniel's location travelling in swift flight.
I think God did the big bang so that we can interact in the physical universe. Remember those Legion demons, we are Legion, we are many.
“My name is Legion,” he replied, “for we are many.”
Those guys were spirit beings from the spirit world. But remember how in Luke it says that they begged Jesus REPEATEDLY not to be put back into the abyss. They would rather go into a herd of pigs than to be disembodied spirits floating around in a formless void.
"And they begged Jesus repeatedly not to order them to go into the Abyss.
"A large herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside. The demons begged Jesus to let them go into the pigs, and he gave them permission.
In New Jerusalem, the Father's House, i would expect to be walking down a physical street made of literal gold, walking though a physical gate made of real pearl, shaking many physical hands, riding a physical horse and eating some of my Mom's stuffed green peppers.
My mouth is watering already at the thought of it.
"I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's Kingdom."
EnochWalked: Oops, I forgot what happens when I put an "s" inside square brackets. Anyway, add this to the list of: genocide in Xinjiang, breaking the Joint Declaration on Hong Kong, spying on the world with 5G/TikTok/Zoom, and creating Covid in their labs.
Jun 20, 2021 8:29:39 GMT -6
yardstick: @ew, re: covid app - it's part of google play store, as a change to that app's software, which means that if you want it off your phone, you also have to remove any way to use google play store. but wait! there's more!
Jun 20, 2021 11:28:04 GMT -6
yardstick: re: covid app, cont. The app is opt-in, so even though they snuck it onto your phone, it is not turned on unless you want it on; and you have to install a state provided app for it to work.
Jun 20, 2021 11:29:18 GMT -6
yardstick: re covid app, cont. 2: my concerns are: how long will it take for an app to get updated to not notify you that it is opt-out, and because it is a core-app like google play store, you are not allowed to remove it because your phone wont work if you do...
Jun 20, 2021 11:32:40 GMT -6
yardstick: re: covid app cont. 3: (like google play store). You did notice they didnt add a new app, right? they changed an app that is core to the phone by adding a feature to it.
Jun 20, 2021 11:33:46 GMT -6
yardstick: re: covid app cont. 4: the article tells you how to turn off the app, and if you search for it in your phone there is information about it and how it is used. I like the part where they basically say that even though they and other users cant track you...
Jun 20, 2021 11:36:32 GMT -6
yardstick: re covid app cont. 5: the govt can; by implication: (paraphrase) even though google, apple and other users cant track your location, as soon as you turn on bluetooth and it pings other users who are being tracked via their GPS...
Jun 20, 2021 11:39:39 GMT -6
yardstick: re: covid app cont. 6: Your location can be generalized by the range of the bluetooth devices that others are using, whose GPS is turned on on their phone...
Jun 20, 2021 11:40:24 GMT -6
yardstick: re: covid app cont. 7: so yes, by implication and with plausible deniability you can be tracked, even though "only public health authorit[y apps] can use this system"
Jun 20, 2021 11:42:07 GMT -6
yardstick: re: covid app cont. 8: and generally, since it is the authorities most people do not want tracking them, therein lies the problem.
Jun 20, 2021 11:52:03 GMT -6
EnochWalked: Excellent analysis and explanation, thank you yardstick!
Jun 20, 2021 13:18:09 GMT -6
EnochWalked: groups.io/g/mpml/topic/83645454 "This new object, 2014 UN271, is not just unusual, but radically exceptional among all known bodies in the Solar System". "its orbit takes it [as close as] just beyond the orbit of Saturn" (11x the Earth-Sun distance)
Jun 20, 2021 13:20:54 GMT -6
EnochWalked: "given how exceptionally red it looked in 2014 precovery images ... [it's] almost undoubtedly the largest Oort Cloud object ever discovered- almost in dwarf planet territory!" "could possibly reach magnitude 13 in early 2031"
Jun 20, 2021 13:22:38 GMT -6