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Post by bowman on Jun 1, 2019 17:48:35 GMT -6
There is evil in the world today because the demons are still roaming free...NOT because Satan is roaming free. Be thankful of what Jesus did for you on The Cross....as God of this world.
I am not so sure you quiet know what Jesus did on the cross. Satan was not the god of this world, but was the ruler as Jesus says with his own mouth. There is a gross misunderstanding that this is happening between God, Satan and demons: That^^^^ is not happening. Jesus and Satan are not and have never been in “combat” with one another over us. John the Baptist made it crystal clear what Jesus was and did accomplish both on the cross and at his resurrection. ”Behold the lamb of God who takes away the SIN of the world!” <<<<<< I don’t see any mention of Satan in there, do you? Let’s see more of what Jesus accomplished for the world and what we should be thankful for. Jesus/Yeshua means God is Salvation. That does not or imply at all God saved our souls from the devil. That means God is our salvation, he is our life, he is everything. He is the only way to not be forever lost to death. What are the wages of sin? Torture by Satan and his demons? Satan getting to keep a tally of how many souls his has compared to God? Bologna. “For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”The wages of sin is Satan and doom to him? No, that’s not what is said there either. It’s implied by that is the case by many, but not all. “For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.”
“For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.”
“For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.”
^^^^^^Don’t see anything in that verse about Satan blocking us or harboring our souls because of sin. I see all have sinned because of Adam, and because one man who was perfect and loves us so much, died the most horrific death to cleanse us of sin. He gave us life by God resurrecting him. The first fruit from death to life. To prove death has no power over God, sin has not power over God and that God is salvation 💗 The death on the cross didn’t bind Satan so he could no longer block or prevent us from coming to Christ, it fulfilled the law that we could not, nailed it to the cross so God can be with us. This was all part of the plan and will of God. The lamb who was slain before the foundation of the world to wash creation of sin. That is the beautiful simplicity of this and why it is referenced as being so easy a child can understand. God simply wants us. He loves his creation and will one day be all in all. Satan is not blocking or preventing any of plan or will of God and above all, has no say or power to block that from happening. “For it is written, "AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD." <<<<< This is NOT an act of force, but an act of acceptance and worship. Stop giving Satan and demonic spirits credit and power they do not harbor or can will. Can they deceive, yes you bet, can they wreak havoc in our lives through spiritual attacks in many forms, yep. But we are the ultimate factor in whether or not we give into the temptation. Our pride blinds and fools us into thinking we can get away or be in charge of the consequences of our choices. The gospel is the good news! It is not an ultimatum of do or die or a ticket out of the hellbound express! The good news is God takes the responsibility for our salvation. That is what we should be thankful for! We are not responsible enough to do this for ourselves and that was the whole purpose of the law, to prove that. He is a good father and a good and loving father never gives up on his children. Our biggest battle is with ourselves in truly understanding and resting in this. We are the 1 that he leaves the 99 to rescue, the hidden treasure in the field that he sold everything for. Christ isn’t a ticket we hold in our hand to wave around for everyone to see or a blockage that finally worked for Satan so he cannot collect any more souls. He is life, love and all that is good. His is the truth and the light and no darkness is found in him.
Scripture repeatedly mentions that Jesus' shed blood on The Cross, ransomed us.
A ransom is a payment between two parties for the release of prisoners.
So...who were we prisoners of...and to whom did Jesus make payment for the transfer of ownership?
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Post by bowman on Jun 1, 2019 17:55:40 GMT -6
Stop giving Satan and demonic spirits credit and power they do not harbor or can will. Can they deceive, yes you bet, can they wreak havoc in our lives through spiritual attacks in many forms, yep. But we are the ultimate factor in whether or not we give into the temptation. Our pride blinds and fools us into thinking we can get away or be in charge of the consequences of our choices.
You have that backwards.
If you think that Satan is still roaming free today, then you deny what Christ did for you at The Cross, and you deny scripture.
You give undo credit to Satan, and raise him to a status that he most certainly does not deserve, nor have today...be thankful Satan is, himself, utterly impotent, and locked in his abyss.... 
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Post by venge on Jun 1, 2019 17:59:15 GMT -6
Where does scripture teach 1/3rd of angels fell? Apocrypha does but not the Bible. REV 12 mentions the dragons tail sweeping 1/3rd of the stars. (asteron) as not a literal planet/star but figurative. Secondly, if this is your ref. stars are identified as heavenly angels and as men. But you are guessing they are fallen angels and there is nothing here to say that.
Rev 12 declares that 1/3 of the angels (stars) were cast to the earth. The same term is used of the angels that Jesus holds in His Right Hand, in Revelation. Further, the lexicons confirm that these 'stars' are angels. Further still, the authors of the koran (which is >75% Book of Revelation material) copied this into their opus as angels...
I don't read the Koran, Anti-Christ material. As I stated before, angels are also men. I am sorry you cannot see any other way. |
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Post by davewatchman on Jun 1, 2019 18:14:07 GMT -6
When the number of the fallen angels is completed, then Satan will be released, and the end of time will have come, as he only needs to possess one person to end planet earth with today's technology...
I didn't hear this one before. Do you think the angels are still switching over into demons? Is this your original material? I wouldn't go so far as to say that angels are switching to demons, as demons are already fallen angels, per scripture. Seems pretty apparent that the Universe was created to continue the original spiritual war that started in Heaven. That is why we are here....to continue that war. Scripture also seems to indicate that we were already once in Heaven, as it mentions our return to Heaven and God. How could we return to God if we had never been with Him to begin with? Something to gnaw on.... It must just be the way you have it worded, bowman. It reminds me of the fifth seal in reverse. "And they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants,their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.It says "were killed", just as they had been.
It just how it's written. I don't think it's past tense, that aorist thing. I think it's happening now.
We're not waiting for the BAD angels, we're waiting for an exact number of the Saints to be arrived at that will be needed to replace the third of the angelic host that the Dragon's tail has already took. Then God will have the "full number" of His Servants back to complete His Kingdom.
We need a specific number that only God knows. Because there's no coming back for more. When the door is closed, it can't open again.
I bet that they're being silent in heaven right now just watching that counter click over. It's clicking and ticking and just a few more to go. We must be close.
When we reach the right number,
there will be time no more.
Something to gnaw on.... |
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Post by fitz on Jun 1, 2019 18:14:37 GMT -6
I am not so sure you quiet know what Jesus did on the cross. Satan was not the god of this world, but was the ruler as Jesus says with his own mouth. There is a gross misunderstanding that this is happening between God, Satan and demons: That^^^^ is not happening. Jesus and Satan are not and have never been in “combat” with one another over us. John the Baptist made it crystal clear what Jesus was and did accomplish both on the cross and at his resurrection. ”Behold the lamb of God who takes away the SIN of the world!” <<<<<< I don’t see any mention of Satan in there, do you? Let’s see more of what Jesus accomplished for the world and what we should be thankful for. Jesus/Yeshua means God is Salvation. That does not or imply at all God saved our souls from the devil. That means God is our salvation, he is our life, he is everything. He is the only way to not be forever lost to death. What are the wages of sin? Torture by Satan and his demons? Satan getting to keep a tally of how many souls his has compared to God? Bologna. “For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”The wages of sin is Satan and doom to him? No, that’s not what is said there either. It’s implied by that is the case by many, but not all. “For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.”
“For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.”
“For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.”
^^^^^^Don’t see anything in that verse about Satan blocking us or harboring our souls because of sin. I see all have sinned because of Adam, and because one man who was perfect and loves us so much, died the most horrific death to cleanse us of sin. He gave us life by God resurrecting him. The first fruit from death to life. To prove death has no power over God, sin has not power over God and that God is salvation 💗 The death on the cross didn’t bind Satan so he could no longer block or prevent us from coming to Christ, it fulfilled the law that we could not, nailed it to the cross so God can be with us. This was all part of the plan and will of God. The lamb who was slain before the foundation of the world to wash creation of sin. That is the beautiful simplicity of this and why it is referenced as being so easy a child can understand. God simply wants us. He loves his creation and will one day be all in all. Satan is not blocking or preventing any of plan or will of God and above all, has no say or power to block that from happening. “For it is written, "AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD." <<<<< This is NOT an act of force, but an act of acceptance and worship. Stop giving Satan and demonic spirits credit and power they do not harbor or can will. Can they deceive, yes you bet, can they wreak havoc in our lives through spiritual attacks in many forms, yep. But we are the ultimate factor in whether or not we give into the temptation. Our pride blinds and fools us into thinking we can get away or be in charge of the consequences of our choices. The gospel is the good news! It is not an ultimatum of do or die or a ticket out of the hellbound express! The good news is God takes the responsibility for our salvation. That is what we should be thankful for! We are not responsible enough to do this for ourselves and that was the whole purpose of the law, to prove that. He is a good father and a good and loving father never gives up on his children. Our biggest battle is with ourselves in truly understanding and resting in this. We are the 1 that he leaves the 99 to rescue, the hidden treasure in the field that he sold everything for. Christ isn’t a ticket we hold in our hand to wave around for everyone to see or a blockage that finally worked for Satan so he cannot collect any more souls. He is life, love and all that is good. His is the truth and the light and no darkness is found in him. Scripture repeatedly mentions that Jesus' shed blood on The Cross, ransomed us. A ransom is a payment between two parties for the release of prisoners. So...who were we prisoners of...and to whom did Jesus make payment for the transfer of ownership?
And here is the answer... www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-pay-ransom.html Question: "How and to whom did Jesus pay our ransom?" Answer: A ransom is something that is paid to provide for the release of someone who is held captive. Jesus paid our ransom to free us from sin, death, and hell. Throughout the books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy are found God's requirements for sacrifices. In Old Testament times, God commanded the Israelites to make animal sacrifices for substitutionary atonement; that is, an animal's death took the place of a person's death, death being the penalty for sin (Romans 6:23). Exodus 29:36a states, "Each day you must sacrifice a young bull as an offering for the atonement of sin." God demands holiness (1 Peter 1:15-16). God's Law demands holiness. We cannot give God full holiness because of the sins we commit (Romans 3:23); therefore, God demands satisfaction of His Law. Sacrifices to Him satisfied the requirements. This is where Jesus comes in. Hebrews 9:12-15 tells us "Once for all time he took blood into that Most Holy Place, but not the blood of goats and calves. He took his own blood, and with it he secured our salvation forever. Under the old system, the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a young cow could cleanse people's bodies from ritual defilement. Just think how much more the blood of Christ will purify our hearts from deeds that lead to death so that we can worship the living God. For by the power of the eternal Spirit, Christ offered himself to God as a perfect sacrifice for our sins. That is why he is the one who mediates the new covenant between God and people, so that all who are invited can receive the eternal inheritance God has promised them. For Christ died to set them free from the penalty of the sins they had committed under that first covenant." |
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Post by venge on Jun 1, 2019 18:19:36 GMT -6
You said: You are referring to after the millennial reign. We are not in it. Christ has not yet come and the rapture has not happened. People said that to Eusebius, in his works, when he preached the gospel and he said they had a devil. When Satan is sealed we are told:
Satan was bound at The Cross, as told in legions of Biblical passages.
We are in the 1k reign with Christ right now... Depart from me Satan and your false doctrine. You don't give glory to God equating this time of wickedness as his reign. Shame on you. As he died on the cross for your sins and my own. And you think all has passed? You change his suffering and his glory into earthly lusts. You have cheapened his reign and all he did for a life that is still in great wickedness. We will all have an account and you will answer before the great judge trying to fool men with worthless lies. You are like unto Baalim casting a stumbling block against the brothern. The rapture has passed, Satan has been sealed....lies to have men sin and give up. To fool them into their own lusts. Some here may be quite, but your poison is enough and not wanted. You don't come here to have speech with others about your love for God for you mock God and his Christ. Saying all is passed...You should repent and search the scriptures. Not casting a stumbling block. I know you are a troll, but I gave the you time to speak reasonably. It is clear you are here not to learn or engage but to destroy and plant thistles and thorns where there was fruit. Bowman, there is a difference between opinion and false doctrine. The apostles and early church fathers never accepted false doctrine and were quick to rebuke them that taught such things. I am doing just that. I don't hate you, I have love for you because I believe you may know Christ, but pushing false doctrine is not acceptable. Repent! Mike, Gary, I am sorry but I will always defend my God, his word and the truth. There is no greater love then our God and his Christ. And I could not love Bowman without admonishing him to leave this heresy that God may forgive him. |
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Post by fitz on Jun 1, 2019 18:21:44 GMT -6
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Post by cwood85 on Jun 1, 2019 18:23:36 GMT -6
I am not so sure you quiet know what Jesus did on the cross. Satan was not the god of this world, but was the ruler as Jesus says with his own mouth. There is a gross misunderstanding that this is happening between God, Satan and demons: That^^^^ is not happening. Jesus and Satan are not and have never been in “combat” with one another over us. John the Baptist made it crystal clear what Jesus was and did accomplish both on the cross and at his resurrection. ”Behold the lamb of God who takes away the SIN of the world!” <<<<<< I don’t see any mention of Satan in there, do you? Let’s see more of what Jesus accomplished for the world and what we should be thankful for. Jesus/Yeshua means God is Salvation. That does not or imply at all God saved our souls from the devil. That means God is our salvation, he is our life, he is everything. He is the only way to not be forever lost to death. What are the wages of sin? Torture by Satan and his demons? Satan getting to keep a tally of how many souls his has compared to God? Bologna. “For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”The wages of sin is Satan and doom to him? No, that’s not what is said there either. It’s implied by that is the case by many, but not all. “For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.”
“For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.”
“For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.”
^^^^^^Don’t see anything in that verse about Satan blocking us or harboring our souls because of sin. I see all have sinned because of Adam, and because one man who was perfect and loves us so much, died the most horrific death to cleanse us of sin. He gave us life by God resurrecting him. The first fruit from death to life. To prove death has no power over God, sin has not power over God and that God is salvation 💗 The death on the cross didn’t bind Satan so he could no longer block or prevent us from coming to Christ, it fulfilled the law that we could not, nailed it to the cross so God can be with us. This was all part of the plan and will of God. The lamb who was slain before the foundation of the world to wash creation of sin. That is the beautiful simplicity of this and why it is referenced as being so easy a child can understand. God simply wants us. He loves his creation and will one day be all in all. Satan is not blocking or preventing any of plan or will of God and above all, has no say or power to block that from happening. “For it is written, "AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD." <<<<< This is NOT an act of force, but an act of acceptance and worship. Stop giving Satan and demonic spirits credit and power they do not harbor or can will. Can they deceive, yes you bet, can they wreak havoc in our lives through spiritual attacks in many forms, yep. But we are the ultimate factor in whether or not we give into the temptation. Our pride blinds and fools us into thinking we can get away or be in charge of the consequences of our choices. The gospel is the good news! It is not an ultimatum of do or die or a ticket out of the hellbound express! The good news is God takes the responsibility for our salvation. That is what we should be thankful for! We are not responsible enough to do this for ourselves and that was the whole purpose of the law, to prove that. He is a good father and a good and loving father never gives up on his children. Our biggest battle is with ourselves in truly understanding and resting in this. We are the 1 that he leaves the 99 to rescue, the hidden treasure in the field that he sold everything for. Christ isn’t a ticket we hold in our hand to wave around for everyone to see or a blockage that finally worked for Satan so he cannot collect any more souls. He is life, love and all that is good. His is the truth and the light and no darkness is found in him. Scripture repeatedly mentions that Jesus' shed blood on The Cross, ransomed us. A ransom is a payment between two parties for the release of prisoners. So...who were we prisoners of...and to whom did Jesus make payment for the transfer of ownership?
Yes from our sin which dooms is to death. That is our ransom. Sheol, hades, the realm of the dead is our prison. Satan or The Satan is the accuser, of us. Satan was the one who tempted Eve and then Adam, Satan did not cause the first sin, he however presented the temptation to do it. We are prisoners of our sin, and our sentence is death. Jesus paid a debt we could not. The law is referred to as a death sentence. Why? Because no one could fulfill it. Even in psalms David states how God does not at all desire sacrifices of animals. “By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return." |
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Post by cwood85 on Jun 1, 2019 18:43:13 GMT -6
Stop giving Satan and demonic spirits credit and power they do not harbor or can will. Can they deceive, yes you bet, can they wreak havoc in our lives through spiritual attacks in many forms, yep. But we are the ultimate factor in whether or not we give into the temptation. Our pride blinds and fools us into thinking we can get away or be in charge of the consequences of our choices.
You have that backwards.
If you think that Satan is still roaming free today, then you deny what Christ did for you at The Cross, and you deny scripture. <<<< This is a really crappy thing to say to anyone. God opens our eyes to understanding his Word. No one has this perfect. The importance thing is to seek God and His character and pray the Holy Spirit guides us in truth and love.
You give undo credit to Satan, and raise him to a status that he most certainly does not deserve, nor have today...be thankful Satan is, himself, utterly impotent, and locked in his abyss....
I know the mods on here are trying to be polite and fair with how conversations are being handled in post and threads. They have a pretty thankless responsibility sometimes on here and for the most part really try not to seem like they are ruling this forum, but are a part of it like everyone else. However, I am not a mod and would like to call you out on your unnecessary arrogance and accusations in your post and responses. It’s really unfortunate and it is putting up a big blockage to anything that you are trying to present (or prove and accuse as it seems the case is) rather than present an opinion or topic for discussion. Pretty sure I stated above Satan is given more power and credit by many either in theology or teaching in churches than what is actually stated. Not sure how I could make that anymore clear? For clarifications sake, what do you think Satans purpose is? What is his role with humanity and God? Who is Satan to you? |
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Post by bowman on Jun 1, 2019 20:18:06 GMT -6
Rev 12 declares that 1/3 of the angels (stars) were cast to the earth. The same term is used of the angels that Jesus holds in His Right Hand, in Revelation. Further, the lexicons confirm that these 'stars' are angels. Further still, the authors of the koran (which is >75% Book of Revelation material) copied this into their opus as angels...
I don't read the Koran, Anti-Christ material. As I stated before, angels are also men. I am sorry you cannot see any other way.
If you haven't studied it, then how would you know?
The Koran was written by early Arab Christians.
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Post by bowman on Jun 1, 2019 20:20:11 GMT -6
When the number of the fallen angels is completed, then Satan will be released, and the end of time will have come, as he only needs to possess one person to end planet earth with today's technology...
I wouldn't go so far as to say that angels are switching to demons, as demons are already fallen angels, per scripture. Seems pretty apparent that the Universe was created to continue the original spiritual war that started in Heaven. That is why we are here....to continue that war. Scripture also seems to indicate that we were already once in Heaven, as it mentions our return to Heaven and God. How could we return to God if we had never been with Him to begin with? Something to gnaw on.... It must just be the way you have it worded, bowman. It reminds me of the fifth seal in reverse. "And they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants,their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.It says "were killed", just as they had been.
It just how it's written. I don't think it's past tense, that aorist thing. I think it's happening now.
We're not waiting for the BAD angels, we're waiting for an exact number of the Saints to be arrived at that will be needed to replace the third of the angelic host that the Dragon's tail has already took. Then God will have the "full number" of His Servants back to complete His Kingdom.
We need a specific number that only God knows. Because there's no coming back for more. When the door is closed, it can't open again.
I bet that they're being silent in heaven right now just watching that counter click over. It's clicking and ticking and just a few more to go. We must be close.
When we reach the right number,
there will be time no more.
Something to gnaw on....
We are pretty much on this same theological wavelength...
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Post by Natalie on Jun 1, 2019 20:21:23 GMT -6
I don't read the Koran, Anti-Christ material. As I stated before, angels are also men. I am sorry you cannot see any other way.
If you haven't studied it, then how would you know?
The Koran was written by early Arab Christians.
Really? That's a new one to me. Got proof of that? |
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Post by bowman on Jun 1, 2019 20:23:46 GMT -6
Scripture repeatedly mentions that Jesus' shed blood on The Cross, ransomed us. A ransom is a payment between two parties for the release of prisoners. So...who were we prisoners of...and to whom did Jesus make payment for the transfer of ownership?
And here is the answer... www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-pay-ransom.html Question: "How and to whom did Jesus pay our ransom?" Answer: A ransom is something that is paid to provide for the release of someone who is held captive. Jesus paid our ransom to free us from sin, death, and hell. Throughout the books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy are found God's requirements for sacrifices. In Old Testament times, God commanded the Israelites to make animal sacrifices for substitutionary atonement; that is, an animal's death took the place of a person's death, death being the penalty for sin (Romans 6:23). Exodus 29:36a states, "Each day you must sacrifice a young bull as an offering for the atonement of sin." God demands holiness (1 Peter 1:15-16). God's Law demands holiness. We cannot give God full holiness because of the sins we commit (Romans 3:23); therefore, God demands satisfaction of His Law. Sacrifices to Him satisfied the requirements. This is where Jesus comes in. Hebrews 9:12-15 tells us "Once for all time he took blood into that Most Holy Place, but not the blood of goats and calves. He took his own blood, and with it he secured our salvation forever. Under the old system, the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a young cow could cleanse people's bodies from ritual defilement. Just think how much more the blood of Christ will purify our hearts from deeds that lead to death so that we can worship the living God. For by the power of the eternal Spirit, Christ offered himself to God as a perfect sacrifice for our sins. That is why he is the one who mediates the new covenant between God and people, so that all who are invited can receive the eternal inheritance God has promised them. For Christ died to set them free from the penalty of the sins they had committed under that first covenant."
That googled answer does not state who the OTHER party is that held us captive.
Jesus is one party.....who is the other party to whom Jesus paid the ransom to?
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Post by bowman on Jun 1, 2019 20:26:42 GMT -6
If you haven't studied it, then how would you know?
The Koran was written by early Arab Christians.
Really? That's a new one to me. Got proof of that?
Sure.
I've studied Koranic Arabic for the past quarter century.
The authors of the koran confirm Jesus' Crucifixion, third day Resurrection, His deity, etc, etc, etc.
Just like the Jews misinterpreted the OT, Muslims have misinterpreted their koran...
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Post by cwood85 on Jun 1, 2019 20:27:26 GMT -6
I don't read the Koran, Anti-Christ material. As I stated before, angels are also men. I am sorry you cannot see any other way.
If you haven't studied it, then how would you know?
The Koran was written by early Arab Christians.
And this is where I tap out. A book written about a man who raped little girls as being a prophet and saw an angel of light is being recommended as good reading materials. Pass. Now who else is referred to as being an angel of light....💡🤨 |
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