|
Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jun 22, 2019 15:42:52 GMT -6
sorry to report, buy I am shaking my head in disagreement... I started in on your link, and I got this far and I can not go any further as I don't know what to say. from the link you site it says this in the beginning of it:
1 Cor For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed (who is the we here?, I would imagine it includes Peter), or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.
Acts 1:6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” 9And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight.
Acts 9:13 But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man [saul], how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. 14And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name.” 15But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel. 16For I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name.”
I can not agree with the bolded type of the quote from the linked site. Jesus (God, if you will) did not change the rules when Paul came along. Jesus changed the entire WORLD when He shed His blood, then was buried to cover that which had died before His death (imho), rose, to achieve victory for all over death (separation from God), and ascended to achieve the ultimate Priesthood for ALL, the ultimate Son for the Inheritance of all things, and the ultimate KING for all time. The word Gospel means GOOD NEWS, and to me Jesus preached the good news before He shed His blood because He was fortelling and revealing the Promise that was made along time ago.
I don't understand the logic or the mindset of that link, so sorry.
|
|
|
Post by boraddict on Jun 22, 2019 20:17:48 GMT -6
This looks like a fun thread!
Somewhere and somehow, someone shared with me that the apostles of the early church chose a replacement for Iscariot and then the Savior chose his own replacement for Iscariot which was Paul. Not that the apostles replacement was a bad choice but they had not been authorized to pick the replacement (to the best of my knowledge). So the Savior chose among the persecutors a great apostle: Paul; our champion.
So while the other apostles were centered upon converting the Jews, Paul broke new ground in converting the gentiles and this was truly revolutionary. Such was the bold move that hurled the church into the church age with the complete gospel message. No longer were the members constrained by misconceived perceptions about the gospel message. No, the gospel grew because of Paul to include everyone.
Hurrah for Paul the Great, Champion of the Lord.
|
|
|
Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jun 22, 2019 20:59:07 GMT -6
NO, it was because of CHRIST Jesus! NOT Paul. Paul is no greater or lesser than anyone. There was not an event AFTER the Cross that changed anything already established by Christ, even the Holy Spirit was prophecied by Christ and came true, but was there all along, and made available because of the blood COVENANT. Jesus now OWNS everything. ANd can send and call and do whatever He pleases. It's not because of mere man, it is because of Jesus. Sorry, I can not waiver from that. Revelation even says that no one was found worthy, not above or below or wherever. The Lamb is what (un)Sealed the deal for mankind. There were just events on earth that reflected the Spiritual Truth going on in Heaven. "on earth" as it IS in heaven..
|
|
|
Post by kjs on Jun 24, 2019 9:59:53 GMT -6
sorry to report, buy I am shaking my head in disagreement... I started in on your link, and I got this far and I can not go any further as I don't know what to say. from the link you site it says this in the beginning of it: 1 Cor For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed (who is the we here?, I would imagine it includes Peter), or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough. Acts 1:6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” 9And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight.
Acts 9:13 But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man [saul], how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. 14And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name.” 15But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel. 16For I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name.”
I can not agree with the bolded type of the quote from the linked site. Jesus (God, if you will) did not change the rules when Paul came along. Jesus changed the entire WORLD when He shed His blood, then was buried to cover that which had died before His death (imho), rose, to achieve victory for all over death (separation from God), and ascended to achieve the ultimate Priesthood for ALL, the ultimate Son for the Inheritance of all things, and the ultimate KING for all time. The word Gospel means GOOD NEWS, and to me Jesus preached the good news before He shed His blood because He was fortelling and revealing the Promise that was made along time ago. I don't understand the logic or the mindset of that link, so sorry.
I do not agree with Don Samdahl (owner of doctrine.org) 100% of the time ...
But one thing I do believe he does right -- is show how Apostle Paul (who was simply a man and by no means perfect) -- reveals seven mysteries that were shown only to Paul and they were revealed only by Paul.
Even W.A. Criswell speaks of -- The Seven Mysteries Revealed to Paul.
These mysteries were NEVER revealed before Paul... One being the "RAPTURE" which many on this website have Faith in.
I know many feel there is only "One Gospel" -- whereas I and many others -- feel there is the Kingdom Gospel (or the Gospel that came through Israel) and the Gospel Revealed by the Apostle Paul -- the Gentile Apostle.
Yes, everything shows it is the works of Jesus Christ -- his sinless life, his death, burial, and resurrection three days later -- that is the core to the Gospel.
But Peter's gospel (and the other apostles) preached that Jesus was the Messiah -- the Son of David -- who will one day rule the world from Jerusalem......
Paul's gospel on the other hand -- is that Jesus Christ was not only the Messiah of Israel -- He was the Savior of the entire world. {1 Tim 4:10}
How those two "truths" merge together -- is where many Christians (and scholars) debate .... and it appears where you disagree with Don.
If I may suggest listen to Les Feldick messages sometime -- His through the Bible Program -- is great in my opinion -- but warning like Don, and C.W -- Les teaches that the Apostle Paul is the Apostle that should be listened to today...
|
|
|
Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jun 24, 2019 22:20:40 GMT -6
um, I am under the impression that God demonstrated His plan thru the peoples in the OT as the core to the entire gospel, all parts of it revealed by Jesus' teachings while alive, and including what a blood-shed covenant meant to atonement for mankind. Is Jesus not the Messiah for me? I sure think so. Are you saying that Peter preached that a man would come to rule Jerusalem yet? That does not make sense to me.
I don't get that from Peter when I read his writings or read about how Peter preached. Maybe I am misunderstanding , but why would we tell a jew anything different about Jesus than Who He Was, Is and Will be? I see no debate. Jesus is who He says He is from any angle, especially from the angle of the OT. and if the churches aren't teaching that, therein lie the trouble with the churches, not the gospel.
In fact, He is so patterned after the things shown in the OT where is the debate over whom it applies or what part is what? This geneology-based gospel teaching is hogwash. There is no identity politics when it comes to Christ. Shame on the churches for promoting this.
|
|
|
Post by cwood85 on Jun 24, 2019 22:50:52 GMT -6
What did the terrible suffering, agony, pain, and finally death of Jesus accomplish by dying on the cross? I do not ask this just for myself, but for discussion from everyone else if you feel like joining in. What was finished exactly? The atonement for the sin of the world. He wiped sin from creation with his life and blood. What was fulfilled? The law. He perfectly fulfilled the law that nobody could or was expected to. That was the point of it and in very meticulous detail break down how to love your neighbor as yourself and love God above all else. What was achieved and completed by this most unselfish acts of love to ever be displayed and witnessed? The ultimate sacrifice to restore creation from sin. Who was this done for? All of creation and mankind. What exactly is the gospel, because it was being preached and taught before Jesus was crucified? The good news was being spread by the apostles. It is the Good news. That God is salvation and his judgement of the world was his mercy on all. It was preached prior to the cross as a way to repent which mean to change your mindset or how you think. The Jews only knew rituals and works. They had to act out the responsibility of cleansing their sins which started with the priest and then done for everyone else. But Jesus told them basically non of that mattered because regardless of what we do or do not do, we have still been gifted salvation by God. What are we to do now that Christ was crucified and rose from the dead? Share the good news! That there is nothing we can accomplish to gain or lose our salvation because God is a good father who has had much mercy and grace with his creation.
What is salvation and how did the death of Jesus allow this to be gifted for the world by dying on the cross? He fulfilled and paid for a debt that we could never pay for. What are the consequences of sin? Death, which praise God was done away with by the resurrection of Jesus!
|
|
|
Post by cwood85 on Jun 25, 2019 9:31:39 GMT -6
kjs , The gospel of the kingdom or kingdom of God as in some translations, is THE gospel. Lets take a look at the above referenced verse. "Jesus was going throughout all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom*, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness among the people."*(bas-il-i'-ah)Definition: kingdom, sovereignty, royal power Usage: kingship, sovereignty, authority, rule, especially of God, both in the world, and in the hearts of men; hence: kingdom, in the concrete sense. There is always this debacle over Kingdom of God vs. Kingdom of Heaven as two separate events and so on because Jesus and the apostles spoke of the gospel of the kingdom... BUTJohn the Baptist spoke of the Kingdom of HEAVEN as he announced the arrival of Jesus before Jesus ministry began and the apostles were even chosen.
1 In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea, 2 "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." 3 For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah when he said, "The voice of one crying in the wilderness: 'Prepare the way of the Lord; make his paths straight.'" ESV
1 And in those days cometh John the Baptist, proclaiming in the wilderness of Judea, 2 and saying, `Reform, for come nigh hath the reign of the heavens,' 3 for this is he who was spoken of by Isaiah the prophet, saying, `A voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, straight make ye His paths.' YLT
Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed, 21nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.
There is not a gospel and than later on a version 2.0. because there is only THE gospel and the end result is the same for all, God is Salvation and only through Jesus is salvation possible and that is proclamation of the gospel, it is the truly and only good news! Woo Hoo! The good news is that we can never ever screw up enough to be separated from God, that we do not have to work for our salvation or follow the proper protocol and then potentially stumble or mess it up. The even better news is that not even death can separate us from God and in death He is there. Not one spot on the earth, above or below is away from God. The apostles later on in the NT after the death and resurrection never make mention of the "previous" or "different" gospel. They all talk of the same one, the Good News.
1 Peter: 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, 5who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time(SOME VERSIONS SAY LAST DAY). 6In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, 7so that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
...10Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired carefully, 11inquiring what person or time the Spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories. 12It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you, in the things that have now been announced to you through those who preached the good news to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things into which angels long to look.
|
|
|
Post by boraddict on Sept 5, 2019 1:23:34 GMT -6
The past few days I have been thinking about the Savior on the day of Atonement. I think most of all he demonstrated his absolute control over the physical body to the point that the body did not control him in any way. It was like a used up item that had fulfilled it's purpose and was no longer needed. Thus, he endured the pain and suffering that was inflicted upon him but the physical body was to be cast off and away. So it was not so much the body but the unyielding experience to which he submitted himself to the will of the Father that was at the heart of the experience.
Just how far was he willing to go? He yielded himself to devils to do with as they wished. The torture to which any degree of doubt, any ounce of self regard, or any possible consideration for anything but obeying the Father would have proved catastrophic. Thus, he in perfect submission to God the Father; suffered, and bled, and died the physical death. All of this after having lived a perfect life having no sin what so ever. NO, not a bad or evil thought nor anything in the slightest that approached the classification of sin. No, he had such control over his body that temptation of the flesh was foreign to his entire demeanor. So, the only possible weakness sought by the devils was mental.
They knew that he was the Savior of the world; those devils possessing the deranged devils all of which engulfed upon him that one fateful day. If only they could cause one minor sin in him then they would win. So beating his body was simply the beating down of the Christ to crush him under their weight of wickedness to cause one small sin of any kind. Anything!
Yet, his submission to the Father was unyielding. He took all that the devils could dish out and in that submission had divine authority over sin. He took from them their power over mankind. No longer could they dominate sinful man but refuge was in the Christ of the world. Man was free from sin at last.
Thus, as scripture tells us, He washed us in his blood; we are clean.
Now, some church doctrines define the demarcation of exactly when a sinful person is free from sin. Yet, according to the act of the atonement the Savior himself forgave everyone. So there is no line of demarcation of when a sinful person is free from sin except that they accept that eternal payment that frees their soul from sin. No, nothing but that one on one salvation between the sinner and their God.
There are however other rewards than salvation and it is there that we grow. Thus, salvation is not the end but the beginning of our relationship with God. For example, the reward of participating in the salvation of others. This action rewards us as members of the family; to care about the peaceful eternal experience of others: empathy for the lost soul. Etc.
So now we have the distinct honor of participating in the Savior's return. We having salvation and watching and waiting. Thank you Gary for creating this site so that we can encourage others toward salvation in Christ.
|
|
|
Post by cwood85 on Sept 5, 2019 9:13:57 GMT -6
The past few days I have been thinking about the Savior on the day of Atonement. I think most of all he demonstrated his absolute control over the physical body to the point that the body did not control him in any way. It was like a used up item that had fulfilled it's purpose and was no longer needed. Thus, he endured the pain and suffering that was inflicted upon him but the physical body was to be cast off and away. So it was not so much the body but the unyielding experience to which he submitted himself to the will of the Father that was at the heart of the experience. Just how far was he willing to go? He yielded himself to devils to do with as they wished. The torture to which any degree of doubt, any ounce of self regard, or any possible consideration for anything but obeying the Father would have proved catastrophic. Thus, he in perfect submission to God the Father; suffered, and bled, and died the physical death. All of this after having lived a perfect life having no sin what so ever. NO, not a bad or evil thought nor anything in the slightest that approached the classification of sin. No, he had such control over his body that temptation of the flesh was foreign to his entire demeanor. So, the only possible weakness sought by the devils was mental. They knew that he was the Savior of the world; those devils possessing the deranged devils all of which engulfed upon him that one fateful day. If only they could cause one minor sin in him then they would win. So beating his body was simply the beating down of the Christ to crush him under their weight of wickedness to cause one small sin of any kind. Anything! Yet, his submission to the Father was unyielding. He took all that the devils could dish out and in that submission had divine authority over sin. He took from them their power over mankind. No longer could they dominate sinful man but refuge was in the Christ of the world. Man was free from sin at last. Thus, as scripture tells us, He washed us in his blood; we are clean. Now, some church doctrines define the demarcation of exactly when a sinful person is free from sin. Yet, according to the act of the atonement the Savior himself forgave everyone. So there is no line of demarcation of when a sinful person is free from sin except that they accept that eternal payment that frees their soul from sin. No, nothing but that one on one salvation between the sinner and their God. There are however other rewards than salvation and it is there that we grow. Thus, salvation is not the end but the beginning of our relationship with God. For example, the reward of participating in the salvation of others. This action rewards us as members of the family; to care about the peaceful eternal experience of others: empathy for the lost soul. Etc. So now we have the distinct honor of participating in the Savior's return. We having salvation and watching and waiting. Thank you Gary for creating this site so that we can encourage others toward salvation in Christ. boraddictSometimes you surprise me in the best of ways with the things you write ❤️
|
|