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Post by cwood85 on May 11, 2019 23:19:38 GMT -6
What did the terrible suffering, agony, pain, and finally death of Jesus accomplish by dying on the cross? I do not ask this just for myself, but for discussion from everyone else if you feel like joining in.
What was finished exactly?
What was fulfilled?
What was achieved and completed by this most unselfish acts of love to ever be displayed and witnessed?
Who was this done for?
What exactly is the gospel, because it was being preached and taught before Jesus was crucified? The good news was being spread by the apostles.
What are we to do now that Christ was crucified and rose from the dead?
What is salvation and how did the death of Jesus allow this to be gifted for the world by dying on the cross?
What are the consequences of sin?
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 0:04:08 GMT -6
Great questions cwood! End to sin, fulfillment of atonement, redemption, God, unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sin, spread the Gospel, Revelation 6, death
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Post by Natalie on May 12, 2019 12:09:50 GMT -6
Good questions.
I don't have time today to write up much of my thoughts, but I just wanted to post something I read the other day. I started the book of Mark and the first verse says, "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God" (footnote, some manuscripts leave off "the Son of God")
So, it seems that for Mark, the gospel starts at the beginning: the preaching of John the Baptist and the start of Jesus's public ministry. I think the gospel, the good news, was that Messiah had come and was restoring the relationship between God and mankind. The kingdom of God is at hand! Jesus came to bring in the new covenant spoken of in Jeremiah 31.
I looked up the verses John declares about himself. Mal 3:1 "Behold, I send my messenger, and he will prepare the way before me," the rest of the verse goes on to say "And the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to His temple; and the messenger of the covenant in whom you delight, behold, he is coming, says the LORD of hosts." Could the messenger of the covenant be Jesus?
Christ lived a life of perfect obedience because we cannot. Then He also paid the penalty that we incurred because of our sin. We can come before a holy God because our sins are covered by a perfect holy sacrifice. I have heard that "It is finished" is like the accounting term "paid in full. Our debt to a holy God has been paid. We can live in communion with Him because of what the death and resurrection of Jesus accomplished.
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Post by venge on May 13, 2019 7:21:26 GMT -6
I believe that the casting out of Satan to the earth happened with Christ death, resurrection and ascent.
Christ death fulfilled the Daniel prophecy that stated he will be cut off.
His death also accomplished his obedience to God by finishing the work he was given to do and drinking the cup that God gave him.
Remission of sins by the lambs blood
Completion of all God’s laws which no man could do
Love for all mankind from the Creator by sacrifice of his son
Accomplished hope for us
His death testified that God’s word is truthful
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Post by mike on May 13, 2019 8:10:37 GMT -6
I believe that the casting out of Satan to the earth happened with Christ death, resurrection and ascent. Venge, Trying to understand what makes you see this in the way you do. Seems the way this passage is written is that Satan was cast out before the crucifixion Luke 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Could you briefly elaborate on your statement in light of the above verse (18)? |
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Post by venge on May 13, 2019 9:25:37 GMT -6
I believe that the casting out of Satan to the earth happened with Christ death, resurrection and ascent. Venge, Trying to understand what makes you see this in the way you do. Seems the way this passage is written is that Satan was cast out before the crucifixion Luke 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Could you briefly elaborate on your statement in light of the above verse (18)? John 16:11 Satan is judged and shown he will be cast out in John 12:31 because of vs. 33 with Christ shed blood. There is more but I’m at work. That is him like lightning. Jesus saw what will happen as he talks to his disciples. I take it as 2 fold but my notes are at home. Cast out of heaven and there is a sealing in earth, then a final prison. |
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Post by mike on May 13, 2019 9:42:41 GMT -6
you mean you work, change diapers, take study notes and post here   Ok i thought it was funny So it sounds like you see Luke 10:18 as outside of time or chronology. If you see that Satan fell (going from Lucifer to Satan) then in that context I could see that He was saying "hey in the beginning I watched the prince of devils rebel and lose his position in the heavens, and those same spirits are subject to the audthority given you by me. But dont rejoice over that, rejoice because your names are written in heaven and you wont suffer the same fate." |
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Post by mike on May 13, 2019 11:26:15 GMT -6
moved the response to my above question to a new thread to discuss who Lucifer is... |
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Post by Natalie on May 13, 2019 20:15:16 GMT -6
I have been working on Ephesians and there is a whole lot of good stuff in that book. Chapter 1 talks about some of the things that Christ accomplished for those who are in Him.
1) We have every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places
2) we are seen as holy and blameless before Him
3) We are adopted as sons
4) We have redemption - the forgiveness of our trespasses
5) He lavishes the riches of His grace on us
6) We have obtained an inheritance that is guaranteed by the Spirit
In Chapter 2:
1) He shows His immeasurable riches of His grace and kindness for all ages to come
2) We are His workmanship
3) We, as Gentiles, are now brought near
4) He united Jews and Gentiles
5) We now have access to the Father
6) We are being built into a dwelling place for God
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Post by bowman on May 30, 2019 21:03:31 GMT -6
What did the terrible suffering, agony, pain, and finally death of Jesus accomplish by dying on the cross? I do not ask this just for myself, but for discussion from everyone else if you feel like joining in. What was finished exactly? What was fulfilled? What was achieved and completed by this most unselfish acts of love to ever be displayed and witnessed? Who was this done for? What exactly is the gospel, because it was being preached and taught before Jesus was crucified? The good news was being spread by the apostles. What are we to do now that Christ was crucified and rose from the dead? What is salvation and how did the death of Jesus allow this to be gifted for the world by dying on the cross? What are the consequences of sin?
Satan was bound at The Cross.
This event ushered in a new era in which mankind is now able to come to Christ without Satan blocking the way.
The time period we are now in is referred to in scripture as The First Resurrection, the 1k earthly reign of Christ, etc...
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Post by cwood85 on May 30, 2019 22:11:43 GMT -6
What did the terrible suffering, agony, pain, and finally death of Jesus accomplish by dying on the cross? I do not ask this just for myself, but for discussion from everyone else if you feel like joining in. What was finished exactly? What was fulfilled? What was achieved and completed by this most unselfish acts of love to ever be displayed and witnessed? Who was this done for? What exactly is the gospel, because it was being preached and taught before Jesus was crucified? The good news was being spread by the apostles. What are we to do now that Christ was crucified and rose from the dead? What is salvation and how did the death of Jesus allow this to be gifted for the world by dying on the cross? What are the consequences of sin?
Satan was bound at The Cross.
This event ushered in a new era in which mankind is now able to come to Christ without Satan blocking the way.
The time period we are now in is referred to in scripture as The First Resurrection, the 1k earthly reign of Christ, etc...
I do agree Satan is no longer ruler of this world because of Jesus sacrifice and resurrection, but am confused about us being in the 1k reign and resurrection? I do not agree that Satan did or has ever had a way to block us from Christ. Satan has no power to harbor or hold souls and only can do what God allows him to do. Jesus died and rose from the dead just shy of 2000 years ago. How and when did the 1k start? |
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Post by venge on Jun 2, 2019 4:54:21 GMT -6
Cwood85
You said: I do agree Satan is no longer ruler of this world because of Jesus sacrifice and resurrection,
I am trying to understand the “why” in that sentence outside of the death.
If Satan no longer ruled, why is there deceiving today?
If Satan no longer ruled, what is he doing?
The scroll given to Christ is a form of deed correct? He opens the deed to see what he inherits. In the deed, things must happen because his father laid out rules to inherit it. But it’s not till the 7th trumpet the kingdoms of earth are his and he reigns. If Christ isn’t reigning yet because that trumpet has not sound, wouldn’t the prince of power of the air still be in charge? We are talking earth, not heaven.
Christ rules heaven with God at his right side, but not earth yet. Satan removed from heaven but not earth yet.
Secondly, Satan is sealed one time and we know that has not happened. And He falls one time.
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jun 2, 2019 7:37:42 GMT -6
venge , cwood85 , I see it as MAN ruling the earth. It is not Satan's but he is doing his best to upset the apple cart. Satan uses weapons of mass Deception. He is that "behind the scenes" operator using MAN, but not ruling man directly. One of the biggest deceptions he has been successful with is getting Man to think Man can control things like the climate, and his wealth, and his salvation. Just because Satan can still deceive Man, does not mean he (Satan) himself is ruler. Man does not consciously worship satan in the establishment of his (Man's) Beast systems. Man is still in his fleshly form, this is still his struggle, the ultimate stumbling block (imho). The desires of our flesh can become a liability in our ability to Hear God and follow His Will. That is why Paul wanted us to set our minds on the Spirit and not of things of this world. Satan doesn't own the world, Jesus does. He legally purchased even what is "below" when he was buried in it.
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Post by cwood85 on Jun 2, 2019 8:49:12 GMT -6
Cwood85 You said: I do agree Satan is no longer ruler of this world because of Jesus sacrifice and resurrection, I am trying to understand the “why” in that sentence outside of the death. If Satan no longer ruled, why is there deceiving today? If Satan no longer ruled, what is he doing? The scroll given to Christ is a form of deed correct? He opens the deed to see what he inherits. In the deed, things must happen because his father laid out rules to inherit it. But it’s not till the 7th trumpet the kingdoms of earth are his and he reigns. If Christ isn’t reigning yet because that trumpet has not sound, wouldn’t the prince of power of the air still be in charge? We are talking earth, not heaven. Christ rules heaven with God at his right side, but not earth yet. Satan removed from heaven but not earth yet. Secondly, Satan is sealed one time and we know that has not happened. And He falls one time. Satan was ruler of this world from the beginning when Eve and Adam followed his words over Gods on eating the fruit. The moment that happened, the world for a time was his. Their pride and vanity let them be blinded over what God had told them about the tree. While Satan didn’t do the original sin himself in the garden, he played a major role in it and has a responsibility for it. He was responsible for their death and death to all of us. They followed Satan over God and were removed from the presence of God, the garden. The judgement of the world happened at the cross. Satan entered Judas so he would fully betray Jesus and turned him in to be killed, which worked. All part of the plan however as we now know. I really believe Satan thought Jesus death was it and that he had no power over death. Satan took Jesus and showed him all of the world and offered it to him. The many many layers of this offer was the BIGGEST thing he could tempt Jesus with. The catch however, was that even Satan was deceived into thinking the world was his because of sin and death. He was offering Jesus us and to be with us. What Satan didn't see or maybe even fully understand was the resurrection which shattered his rule of this world. This is why the gospel was preached below, on, and above the earth. Death was defeated and done. Since death was our penalty for sin, there was no longer the debt of sin. And that is what was preached below, on, and above the world, the good news, God is salvation, death is defeated and sin has been cleansed. “ Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,” Hebrew 2:14 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Satan ruled for a time because of sin and death. Both where defeated 2000 years ago. Yes Satan is still here and he began to go after people with a vengeance shortly after Jesus was crucified and resurrected. So why is their still deception, sin abound, and clearly Satans influence on the world? Because everything is to happen in its own time. Because God is allowing this for a time. Because we still fall into temptations and many do not see Jesus for what he is. Life, salvation and love. For many he is a way out of hell, or a way to prove ones religious stance, a reason to murder and torture for disbelief in Jesus or the true way to obtain salvation. Heresy used to be a death sentence. But look at the things that were considered heresy! Not paying church tax, or trying to read the Bible, believing no salvation was found in the church but only through God. He is used as a reason to refuse service and business to people to uphold their beliefs. He is preached to the world as the one who sends people to hell and even visits hell to rub in the faces of those being tormented all’s they simply had to do was believe.... children were and are told if they didn’t believe in they would burn in Hell. What rubbish and shame. I remember attending church camps and this being told to us. Do or die. Believe or burn. That’s blackmail!! As a little girl at age 11 everything inside me told me that wasn’t right and it wasn’t good. What they were doing and telling us to do was wrong! Forcing our hand, making Gods salvation an unbearable burden if we didn’t comply. Shame on them and all preachers who feel they need to use these sort of tactics. That in itself is a huge deception. In this age, it is humanity who still needs many things worked out. We still follow ourselves more than anything. |
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Post by kjs on Jun 19, 2019 12:14:04 GMT -6
What did the terrible suffering, agony, pain, and finally death of Jesus accomplish by dying on the cross? I do not ask this just for myself, but for discussion from everyone else if you feel like joining in. What was finished exactly? What was fulfilled? What was achieved and completed by this most unselfish acts of love to ever be displayed and witnessed? Who was this done for? What exactly is the gospel, because it was being preached and taught before Jesus was crucified? The good news was being spread by the apostles. What are we to do now that Christ was crucified and rose from the dead? What is salvation and how did the death of Jesus allow this to be gifted for the world by dying on the cross? What are the consequences of sin? What was finished exactly? What was fulfilled? What was achieved?
The first three questions can be taken together; since they are all asking the same thing in different ways…. (What was finished; What was fulfilled and What was achieved) – THE LAW. One of the mysteries proclaimed by Paul is “The Secret of the Grace of God” – How the Given Law was fulfilled (achieved) by they Messiah. Jesus Christ death “finished” the legal portion of the Law – it was the fulfillment of the requirements that God demanded. Because of Jesus Christ achievement the mystery of the Grace of God could be bestowed.
Who was this done for? Humankind
What exactly is the gospel, because it was being preached and taught before Jesus was crucified? The good news was being spread by the apostles.
It appears the “Gospel” of the original Apostles (Not Paul) was the Gospel of the Kingdom of God (it actually states it as such in some places… (Matt. 4:23)) this “gospel” is different from the gospel proclaimed by Paul. A Good Summary can be found here
What are we to do now that Christ was crucified and rose from the dead?
The Secret of the Gospel of the Grace of God is one of the mysteries proclaimed by Apostle Paul. Paul’s gospel of the grace of God was the message of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. Paul wrote the Corinthians, (1 Corinthians 15.1-4) 1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures…
It is this mystery that truly defines the gospel – and what needs proclaimed --- it is not by might or deed that a human can enter into God’s presences but simply trusting in the finished work of Jesus Christ.
What is salvation and how did the death of Jesus allow this to be gifted for the world by dying on the cross?
Salvation is Imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ credited (Gifted) to the Christian so the wages which they deserve are not invoked. This entire process (the imputation) is one of the mysteries proclaimed by Apostle Paul.
What are the consequences of sin?
Romans 6:23 – DEATH is the ultimate consequence. Now we all know for sure this means physical death – meaning Human Beings – do Die. There has been much debate if this means there is a Spiritual Death as well. Most who believe in the Spiritual Death of Humans, believe humans are born already being Spiritually dead and therefore have no immortality outside a spiritual rebirth. Now John 3:18 seems to support this contention – meaning it is only the act of belief in Jesus Christ which brings about Spiritual Life.
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