|
|
Post by cwood85 on May 7, 2019 21:26:52 GMT -6
venge , jamie , sawdy , Thank you all for your input. While personally I wish for a pre-trib rapture event, and was once sold out on it because I was taught as such today I am not so sure. I do see many reasons for this viewpoint as Gary has spelled out. I have an "egg in that basket", yet not the whole dozen. While I want to know, it is not essential to whom I am looking for and to. However He has planned it I must accept and am fine with it. Venge - a little confused by your last post, can you clarify if you are saying (i think you said this someplace before) that the dead rise after the 1000 year reign? EDIT - Venge, I think Jamie is male, not female I think both of us have said it because Revelation states so here: 4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
I would also like to breakdown the very clear order of events given here before the first resurrection for anyone who would like to ponder on: 1. The books are opened for judgement for those who sit on the thrones (Kings/rulers of the earth?) and the souls of those who had been beheaded and killed for Christ and also those who did not accept the mark of the beast are part of the first resurrection. You are blessed if you are part of the first resurrection and reign with Christ for a thousand years. 2. The REST OF THE DEAD (those not part of the first resurrection) do not come to life until after the first thousand years after the first resurrection. Then a second resurrection happens and Satan is also released. |
|
|
|
Post by kjs on May 8, 2019 9:50:46 GMT -6
Hey Venge, So reading the above reply I am understanding you see that the Rapture and dead rising are the same event sometime during a tribulation or at the second coming? Again I think we briefly touched on this someplace before cuz it sounds somewhat familiar but my brain is pretty fried (everyday) 🤯 I need to review a few things about the 1st resurrection as I currently see it as three in one. Christ rose first, then the redeemed dead and those who are alive and remain, lastly those martyred at the end of the 7yr trib (if the trib is even 7yrs). Since I am constantly considering the order of things I am open to the thought that the Rapture is at the second coming. This is a tough subject. 1) Is the tribulation seven years? 2) Does the rapture precede the 2nd coming? 3) Are the dead risen at the time of the rapture? Wow! Sometime ago I thought that I had the answer to all three questions; but now I do not know. I would tend to answer: 1) yes 2) yes 3) no Can we take a vote? Hmmm... I think (but then again who am I) that the "dead" are "raised" at the time of the rapture -- but ONLY those dead who are in Christ.
1 Thessalonians 4:16 16 With a shout of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of God’s trumpet, the Lord himself will come down from heaven, and the dead who belong to the Messiah will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 So then, encourage one another with these words.
Now, the "other dead - not in Christ" will not be raised until ..... Revelation 20
|
|
|
|
Post by Gary on May 8, 2019 10:49:55 GMT -6
Exactly 
One of the biggest problems with taking Revelation 20:5's reference to "the first resurrection" to mean that it is the first resurrection in sequence ever, and not first resurrection in type, is that it is definitely not the first resurrection in sequence. Christ, called the firstborn from the dead, has already been raised—2,000 years ago.
The first resurrection is unto life and the second, which occurs at the end of Christ's millennial reign, is unto death. The first is the type of resurrection in which the righteous are saved by faith apart from works, through the perfect righteousness of "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." The second is the type of resurrection in which the wicked are judged by their works and cast into Gehenna, along with death and Hades.
If Revelation 20:5 describes the first resurrection ever, then the following resurrections recorded in the Bible never happened:
The Shunamite's son (2 Kings 4)
Jairus' daughter (Luke 8)
Lazarus (John 11)
Jesus
Many Old Testament saints shortly after Christ's resurrection (Mt. 27:52–53)
Tabitha/Dorcas (Acts 9)
Eutychus (Acts 20)
All of these people were dead-dead. And then were raised from the dead. The first resurrection in sequence ever was the Shunammite's son. In fact there have been at least seven resurrections occurring before Revelation 20:5, including Christ's which is a type of our own.
|
|
|
|
Post by stormyknight on May 8, 2019 12:14:19 GMT -6
of the two resurrections that take place in Rev. 20, the first one, the one in question, is in my opinion, the most important because that is the first mass resurrection. 4413. prótos prótos: first, chief Original Word: πρῶτος, η, ον Part of Speech: Adjective Transliteration: prótos Phonetic Spelling: (pro'-tos) Definition: first, chief Usage: first, before, principal, most important. 4413 /prṓtos ("first, foremost") is the superlative form of 4253 /pró ("before") meaning " what comes first" (is "number one"). also, from Dictionary.com Proto- a combining form meaning “first,” “foremost,” “earliest form of,” used in the formation of compound words ( protomartyr; protolithic; protoplasm ), specialized in chemical terminology to denote the first of a series of compounds, or the one containing the minimum amount of an element. What this tells me is that this particular resurrection is the first of a series of resurrections of it's kind and that it is the most important. It doesn't say in Revelation 20 how many resurrections there are after this one, just;
"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne. And there were open books, and one of them was the book of life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books. The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds. " v.12-13
are the dead all going to be resurrected at once, and then have to stand around while God judges each and every one? Is it a mass judgement or one at a time? Doesn't say except that 'each one was judged according to his deeds.' So if it's one at a time, then it's going to take awhile. And these are the wicked, remember. I understand the British people are very good at cueing, but there are a lot of impatient Americans that are going to be pushing and shoving...  I guess we shall see.
suffice it to say that I believe the resurrection of Rev. 20:5 is the first and most important, resurrection of it's kind.
edit: I need to qualify my first statement. I don't think it is THE most important, that would be Jesus' resurrection. It is the most important of the end times resurrections because it is the righteous that are putting on immortality.
|
|
I guess we shall see.