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Post by mike on Aug 17, 2020 7:56:11 GMT -6
uscgvet Rev 14 is where I got it. I bolded it brother  Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. 9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
It says the hour of judgment is come, accompanied by an angel preaching. Then another angel announces Babylon is fallen, then another angel indicating those who take the mark will be tormented in the presence of the Lamb and His angels. If we continue we see Jesus in the clouds14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud [one] sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.I realize that much of this indicates a pre-wrath gathering. I'm not trying to debate that just answering your question (I hope). Unless these verse are not consecutive or chronological this is where we see it
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Post by uscgvet on Aug 17, 2020 8:26:40 GMT -6
Hmm. I'll chew on it a bit.  Edit. Yea, the great winepress is Chapter 14. That is obvious the Lord is down there stomping grapes. I must have spaced out on remembering all that. |
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Post by venge on Aug 17, 2020 19:44:31 GMT -6
uscgvet what is your point? BORA didnt say the mark directly caused the sores, but those who do will eventually have sores. The end result is the same. Are you simply pointing to the verse where the sores are caused? Note that those who do not have the mark are not included in the sores. However it is hard for me to see there will be many left here on earth without the mark. EDIT except for saints, hmmmmmm Rev14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.Verse 9 seems to indicate the mark coincides with a dedication to the beast AND the image of the beast. However it does not appear to me that this occurs on earth unless Jesus is on earth when the wrath of God is poured on them. Something to ponder - why verse 12 if the rapture occurs first? Is this to Israel? So called Trib saints (which I find very difficult to believe that all of a sudden 'christians' will awake en masse)? have to agree. Are there different penalties for the mark vs worship of the beast or the image? So they are all linked. Is it possible to have 1 and not the others? I don’t see how it’s possible atm If you take the mark, it’s in the kingdom that sets up an image. If the vaccine is the mark...where’s the image, when was Babylon destroyed, when did the 6th seal happen, who is the AC etc I just laugh |
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Post by boraddict on Aug 17, 2020 19:57:34 GMT -6
Perhaps if we had a prophet, seer, and revelator like the LDS then we would have no need for discussion; because, God speaking through his appointed spokesman (not) would let us know; whatever. Just a thought! I like it this way. We get to discuss the finer detail of the gospel without someone telling us not to think or ask. Not the LDS only, but several denominations that squash their people. Jesus wanted us to think about these "gospel things" to develop our faith. Not only that but he expects us to have differing views on the subject matters. In that way we exercise and develop ourselves in things that really matter. uscgvet, I like your earthy approach. You know, down to the bedrock and staunchly secure. It is like having Peter here with us. Although, he did make his mistakes, , now that is funny! I on the other hand might be considered a floater; never really finding the answer. One day I hold this position and the next day another position; on the very same subject mind you. I used to think that 3 days was a long time to spend on one verse but I shattered that record many times over. I tried writing a book but couldn't stop correcting myself day after day. I did make it to more than 100 pages and much of that I consider to be incorrect. At this point in my gospel experience I do not find that the Savior actually comes to the earth until the end. |
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Post by venge on Aug 22, 2020 6:13:03 GMT -6
I on the other hand might be considered a floater; never really finding the answer. One day I hold this position and the next day another position; on the very same subject mind you. I used to think that 3 days was a long time to spend on one verse but I shattered that record many times over. I tried writing a book but couldn't stop correcting myself day after day. I did make it to more than 100 pages and much of that I consider to be incorrect. At this point in my gospel experience I do not find that the Savior actually comes to the earth until the end. I agree with your last statement. Not just the end, but the last day of the 42 month period. Not everyone has it all figured out. I don't believe there is any one person who can read Revelation and understand every facet of it perfectly. I think it is possible with God, and if that person did exist, they never wrote a book...or we'd know of it. I really believe a large issue is what Church's taught on prophecy. Each church type teaches what they think: Pre TB, Mid TB, Post TB, Pre Wrath etc...What if it was not any of those? What if bits and pieces from them were correct, but the entire theory behind each was not 100% correct? This is why people in each theory look at it and say, "I never got this part", "this part makes no sense because verse such and such says" or other questions that arise. I've said this before, you cannot let yourself only be watered by everyone here, on youtube videos and other ways. You must water yourself. Drink and eat of the word. I am not saying you don't do that, I don't know - only you and God knows. But read and ask yourself questions...I have already directed you to a great writeup on the seals by a member. She perfectly points out the issues with making seals 1-4 as future using sound logic. I hold the same theory as her on the seals but she writes in a way that is easier to read then I ever could. It tis that logic that is needed in a book that is "in the spirit" and not in the world. Why do you change positions soo much? Everyone can make their position look good, but is it sound? |
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Post by boraddict on Aug 22, 2020 18:52:24 GMT -6
I on the other hand might be considered a floater; never really finding the answer. One day I hold this position and the next day another position; on the very same subject mind you. I used to think that 3 days was a long time to spend on one verse but I shattered that record many times over. I tried writing a book but couldn't stop correcting myself day after day. I did make it to more than 100 pages and much of that I consider to be incorrect. At this point in my gospel experience I do not find that the Savior actually comes to the earth until the end. I agree with your last statement. Not just the end, but the last day of the 42 month period. Not everyone has it all figured out. I don't believe there is any one person who can read Revelation and understand every facet of it perfectly. I think it is possible with God, and if that person did exist, they never wrote a book...or we'd know of it. I really believe a large issue is what Church's taught on prophecy. Each church type teaches what they think: Pre TB, Mid TB, Post TB, Pre Wrath etc...What if it was not any of those? What if bits and pieces from them were correct, but the entire theory behind each was not 100% correct? This is why people in each theory look at it and say, "I never got this part", "this part makes no sense because verse such and such says" or other questions that arise. I've said this before, you cannot let yourself only be watered by everyone here, on youtube videos and other ways. You must water yourself. Drink and eat of the word. I am not saying you don't do that, I don't know - only you and God knows. But read and ask yourself questions...I have already directed you to a great writeup on the seals by a member. She perfectly points out the issues with making seals 1-4 as future using sound logic. I hold the same theory as her on the seals but she writes in a way that is easier to read then I ever could. It tis that logic that is needed in a book that is "in the spirit" and not in the world. Why do you change positions soo much? Everyone can make their position look good, but is it sound? Thank you venge . I flip flop on my positions because I find new information supporting other conclusions. Often this new information is already believed by others and these "proofs" that I find cause me to change my position. There are however things that I hold to be true that no one else believes. For instance I believe that the pre-trib rapture is an exodus wherein the army of God is gathered for taking control of the earth back away-from the beast. That beast takes control at the beginning of the 7 years. Thus, the army to put him down is taken by God and protected. I believe that that army is sealed to the Savior at the marriage and as a result if anyone sees a member of that army then they have seen the Savior. Much like if anyone sees the Savior they have seen the Father. Thus, the Father and Son are sealed and the army of God is likewise sealed to the Father via Christ. It is for that reason that they have the Fathers name in their foreheads (Rev. 14:1) because they are sealed to the point that if you see one of these then you have in fact seen the Father. So the sealing (Rev. 7) is the point at which the army of God becomes devastating to the wicked of the earth. Because, not only is Jesus upon the earth via his army, but the Father also. The literal rapture takes place (IMO) at the end of the 7 years. |
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Post by uscgvet on Aug 22, 2020 19:29:07 GMT -6
I agree with boraddict in that God is collecting his army due to Psalm 18. God's even going to personally train us. I'm still more pre-trib though. I'm researching Brenda Weltner's ideas. Many of her conclusions seem to align with things I've found in my studies. Here is one on the alien deception but has more info: |
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Post by dkdono on Aug 26, 2020 13:04:37 GMT -6
Interesting video...did she explain how she came to using September 21, 2017 as the start of the 7 year tribulation?
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Post by uscgvet on Aug 26, 2020 13:20:31 GMT -6
Interesting video...did she explain how she came to using September 21, 2017 as the start of the 7 year tribulation? She has other videos explaining why Sept 21-23 2017, but the main reason was the Revelation 12 sign appearing in the sky back in 2017. |
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Post by dkdono on Aug 26, 2020 13:23:29 GMT -6
Thank you for the quick response.
I've been taught that the beginning of the 7 year tribuation will be when a Middle East peace agreement has been signed.....
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Post by mike on Aug 26, 2020 13:27:46 GMT -6
Thank you for the quick response. I've been taught that the beginning of the 7 year tribuation will be when a Middle East peace agreement has been signed..... Hmm...not everyone agrees on a 7 yr time frame, nor the 'peace agreement' kicking things off. Encourage you to peruse the forum for discussions we've had to understand some of these. |
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Post by dkdono on Aug 26, 2020 13:29:14 GMT -6
will do thank you
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Post by uscgvet on Aug 26, 2020 13:46:07 GMT -6
Another interesting confirmation video.
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Post by mike on Aug 26, 2020 14:02:21 GMT -6
uscgvet Pauls videos are great, especially when he reviews the stars. His excitement at the very end is worth the laugh I got 
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Post by venge on Aug 28, 2020 14:15:04 GMT -6
Thank you for the quick response. I've been taught that the beginning of the 7 year tribuation will be when a Middle East peace agreement has been signed..... To back up what Mike said, many call it an Israeli peace agreement but that’s not scriptural. It’s a covenant with many. Doesn’t have to be based on peace or 7 years. Though that’s how some understand it |
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