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Post by ranger007 on Apr 7, 2019 17:05:28 GMT -6
Ranger Chris - Just a couple of questions to get to know you better... How did you come to find Unsealed? How would you explain the Gospel? Dear Natalie, I came upon Unsealed from Facebook posts from friends, concerning the Revelation 12 sign. I have been reading this blog site since before the actual event, and have enjoyed the insight very much. I found the teaching pretty dead on, not that I was looking for discrepancies. I still enjoy posts from this site. I believe you wrote the excellent piece on the "Rightly diving the Truth" movement. I saw for myself how our brother Scottie Clark, was drifting into error, but I could not quite place where he was going, with his new teaching of late. Thank you for thoroughly explaining what we were dealing with. It is truly sad that we continue to get "movements" who take scripture out of context, and drive a stake down. Thus forming a "new revelation". Thanks again for that information. As for my explanation of the Gospel, it is the Good News, of the saving grace of Jesus' atonement. As I have said before, my present denomination is Assembly of God. I have also be a member of the Methodist Church in my early pre-teen life. My father became a Pastor in 1970. We served as Pastors of two United Methodist Churches, from 1970-76. My mother was raised Pentecostal, and soon after my Father became a Pastor, my Father also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and Fire, with the evidence of speaking in tongues. We became methocostals, after that, and that caused some problems, with the Government of the church. The only logical step would be switching to a Pentecostal church. That would be the Church of God, which he Pastored, and served as a State of Florida Evangelist as well, until 1995. My parents then started attending a Word of Faith Church. Shortly after, I started there as well. I have seen Kenneth E. Hagin in person, several times before his death in 2006. I graduated from Rhema Bible Correspondence school, as well as helping start a satellite church. In 1993, I was introduced to Rodney Howard Brown, who continues to operate in the move of "Holy Laughter". I have personally experienced this joy of the Holy Spirit. Others in this tread have said this is not self-control, one of the fruit of the Spirit. I beg to differ, as the Holy Spirit, is indeed a gentleman, and can be grieved easily. Someone who is not FILLED with the Holy Spirit, or witnessed/participated in moves of God, can not begin to understand what is going on. Many times God has made folks look foolish, to those who do not want to understand, and feel superior, when coming against, what is Holy. It is not for me to defend, by for God to defend Himself. I have been studying the Word of God, for nearly 50 years, since a young preachers' kid. I also have attended an Assembly of God University, here in Central Florida. The main reason I am attending an AOG church, is because, my wife and I are very involved in the Ministry of ROYAL RANGERS. This is a mentoring ministry, for boys and young men. In fact I have just returned from a four day campout, of the biggest one of it's kind in the Nation! That gives you a little personal background, to better understand my foundational belief system. I write my blog with the intent to explain the Word of God, walking in the Office of Teacher. Many of us have been taught wrong denominational theology, and everything we read, in viewed through those rose colored glasses. So, something we observe in this manner, that does not line up with our Theology, it is automatically labeled as "FALSE". I take great lengths to explain the Word, for what it really says, in plain text, and original language. This has been an eye opener for many, as we tip over the sacred cows, we have in our theology. I do not like to drop labels or titles, to gain credibility. Just let the work speak for itself. We are all students of the Word, and should be constantly learning. The mistake of many is they have "arrived", and their version of the gospel, IS THE GOSPEL. Until we are open to the many facets, of the nature of God, we will remain a stagnant pool. We see this with the compound names of God. He wants to reveal Himself to us, so we can benefit, from everything He has for us. Sadly, so many Christians are living well below what fullness is available, as Priestly Kings. I hope this helps for you to get to know me better. I remain a humble servant, and a willing vessel. CHRIS |
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Post by ranger007 on Apr 7, 2019 17:10:11 GMT -6
To answer your question Yardstick. As I have said before. Just because you don’t understand a move of God, one of which “Holy Laughter”, as you call it, does not merit it NOT being genuine. Having experienced it personally on several occasions, I assure you it is. Dad Hagin, was not a in fact a Man of God, and not a false teacher. It is getting real old that I have to continue to say this in the social media outlet. Thanks for your reply. and thanks for continuing to dialog here. Be advised that I did not bring up whether or not I understood 'holy laughter', et al. There are many scriptural things which I do not understand; yet are clearly specified, exemplified, demonstrated, described, et c in the scriptures. I believe I was asking if 'holy laughter' was scriptural. By that I mean: can you show me some scriptures where such behavior is demonstrated or sanctioned or exemplified, or whatever? If you wish to claim that it is a behavior exhibiting exceeding Joy in the Spirit, it is okay to do so; however, I cannot recall it having been so described by Mr. Hagin. Maybe I missed it somewhere, and would appreciate you posting where he has defined 'holy laughter' that way; since I am less familiar with his teachings than you are. If we 'do not understand' (as you say), then isn't it incumbent upon you to explain with scriptural references? Do you believe it is unreasonable for members of this forum to ask questions if they feel dubious about a claim, or source? If you have an audience willing to hear what you have to say (but who question your sources), isn't that all the more reason for you (given the credentials you have cited) to support your teachings; or promulgation of others' teachings? All here would appreciate some supporting explanations. Do you mind helping us out? We would appreciate it if you would. Thanks. p.s. We would also appreciate you posting a copy of the text from your blog here along with the link. This assures us that you are not just using this site to drive traffic to yours. If you wish to put 'bonus material' on your site for those who go there, which is not available to those who do not, I would highly recommend that as a 'reward' to those who follow the links. In response to your questions, I hope this is satisfactory. Yes you can refer the "Holy Laughter" to great joy. Maybe this would be a better explanation. I am prior Military, so I understand the preparation for battle. We as Christians, are in a battle called life. The world is ruled by the Price of Darkness, and we are assaulted on a daily basis. Yes we are more than conquers, but at time we can get "Battle Weary". Every good battle plan , has times built in for Rest and Relaxation. Sometimes we need to be refreshed, and our wounds healed, so we can return to battle. We all know of the scripture: " A merry heart does good, like medicine, But a broken spirit dries the bones." (Proverbs 17:22 NKJV). Do you know that laughter is such good medicine that it can relieve stress, cure headaches, fight infections and alleviate hypertension? Doctors tell us laughing produces physical benefits similar to the benefits we get from vigorous physical exercise. When you throw your head back and laugh out loud, the muscles in the abdomen, chest, shoulders and elsewhere in your body contract, while your heart rate and blood pressure increase. Just one burst of laughter can cause your pulse rate to double from 60 to 120, while your systolic blood pressure can shoot from a normal 120 to 200. Then once you stop laughing your heartbeat and blood pressure dip below normal - signaling reduced stress. God created laughter because he knows it's good for your health. To best explain this experience is to tell you what it is like, from a personal perspective. It is not something that you can stir up on your own. The Holy Spirit, can come in the form of flowing water. When you yield yourself to The Holy Spirit, He will certainly fill you to OVERFLOWING. When this happens, you feel the laughter, from deep inside. It is like a controlled, abandonment, that is heard to stop. I have laughed so hard and long, that I had to ask God for it to stop. Sometimes like this, your body can hardly handle the outpouring. Can this experience be abused and counterfeited in the body, to bring attention to oneself? Well of course. Just like any move of God, the devil wishes to discredit it. Folks will drift into the flesh, when a physical manifestation of the Spirit moves. This takes us back to the fact of throwing the baby out with the bath water, because of those few. I have seen may different moves of God, and also the folks who want to remain there. While the cloud, has moved on to a different move. We can't pitch a tent, like the disciples wanted to, on the Mountain of Transfiguration. Mature Christians, have to be able to discern what is fake, and what is Holy and genuine. I have no problem at all for those who wish to ask questions, for clarification. I do have a problem, with those who have made incorrect determinations. I welcome a civil dialogue, and try to answer in the limited time I have to do so. If individuals are open to simple, straight talk, and the patience to wait until I can adequately answer, we can have a wonderful discussion. I have posted the links to my specific blog of the day. When someone has a question, it is better for them to let me know which blog they are referring. Some of my posts, are multipart series, on one subject. I am working on a system of rewards/ incentives to draw traffic to my blog. But I am not USING this site just to do so. I truly have one agenda, to be able to spread the Word of God, FREELY, all over the World. I pray this has helped answer your questions, and creates a desire to learn more about this subject, BEFORE making determinations. CHRIS |
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Post by ranger007 on Apr 7, 2019 17:16:03 GMT -6
Ranger, you remind me of my brother Stewart. He milks his goats twice a day. Then he takes that milk and feeds the baby goats and his 30? cats. Now that makes me laugh because when asked why he does such a thing he just states that he likes goats and cats. He simply does what he likes to do. He has 60 goats.  I am trying to understand if this a complement, or an insult. I am not trying to "milk' anything. I have found myself having to defend myself on a daily basis. I responded to Natalie in a detailed response. Maybe you can read that, and understand where I am coming from. Maybe if you took the time to check out my blog, the work would speak for itself. CHRIS |
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Post by Natalie on Apr 7, 2019 17:22:57 GMT -6
Ranger Chris - Just a couple of questions to get to know you better... How did you come to find Unsealed? How would you explain the Gospel? Dear Natalie, I came upon Unsealed from Facebook posts from friends, concerning the Revelation 12 sign. I have been reading this blog site since before the actual event, and have enjoyed the insight very much. I found the teaching pretty dead on, not that I was looking for discrepancies. I still enjoy posts from this site. I believe you wrote the excellent piece on the "Rightly diving the Truth" movement. I saw for myself how our brother Scottie Clark, was drifting into error, but I could not quite place where he was going, with his new teaching of late. Thank you for thoroughly explaining what we were dealing with. It is truly sad that we continue to get "movements" who take scripture out of context, and drive a stake down. Thus forming a "new revelation". Thanks again for that information. Thanks for your answers, Chris. I do not think it was me who wrote that, I think it might have been Hillary. (I don't think she posts on the board but does on the blog. Gary knows her somehow.)
I enjoy this site, too. Many different people with different backgrounds and beliefs all working together to study Scripture. And yes, even a place where long held ideas can get challenged or even strengthened. It's lead me to think about many things.
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Post by Natalie on Apr 7, 2019 17:24:26 GMT -6
Ranger, you remind me of my brother Stewart. He milks his goats twice a day. Then he takes that milk and feeds the baby goats and his 30? cats. Now that makes me laugh because when asked why he does such a thing he just states that he likes goats and cats. He simply does what he likes to do. He has 60 goats. I am trying to understand if this a complement, or an insult. I am not trying to "milk' anything. I have found myself having to defend myself on a daily basis. I responded to Natalie in a detailed response. Maybe you can read that, and understand where I am coming from. Maybe if you took the time to check out my blog, the work would speak for itself. CHRISKnowing Boraddict -- it's a complement.  |
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Post by ranger007 on Apr 7, 2019 17:59:39 GMT -6
I am trying to understand if this a complement, or an insult. I am not trying to "milk' anything. I have found myself having to defend myself on a daily basis. I responded to Natalie in a detailed response. Maybe you can read that, and understand where I am coming from. Maybe if you took the time to check out my blog, the work would speak for itself. CHRISKnowing Boraddict -- it's a complement. Then I will take it as one. Yes I do love what I do. There was a time where I thought I could only express myself VERBALLY. After College, it was like God dropped a writing anointing on me. Never in the natural, could I have written for 207 days straight, without missing a post, or have a lack of material. I don't see an end to the streak. Your prayers are appreciated, that God would continue to anoint me for service.  |
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Post by ranger007 on Apr 7, 2019 18:01:52 GMT -6
Dear Natalie, I came upon Unsealed from Facebook posts from friends, concerning the Revelation 12 sign. I have been reading this blog site since before the actual event, and have enjoyed the insight very much. I found the teaching pretty dead on, not that I was looking for discrepancies. I still enjoy posts from this site. I believe you wrote the excellent piece on the "Rightly diving the Truth" movement. I saw for myself how our brother Scottie Clark, was drifting into error, but I could not quite place where he was going, with his new teaching of late. Thank you for thoroughly explaining what we were dealing with. It is truly sad that we continue to get "movements" who take scripture out of context, and drive a stake down. Thus forming a "new revelation". Thanks again for that information. Thanks for your answers, Chris. I do not think it was me who wrote that, I think it might have been Hillary. (I don't think she posts on the board but does on the blog. Gary knows her somehow.)
I enjoy this site, too. Many different people with different backgrounds and beliefs all working together to study Scripture. And yes, even a place where long held ideas can get challenged or even strengthened. It's lead me to think about many things.
I am glad we can come to an understanding. As I have said many times to MIKE, I only wish to be a blessing, never a thorn of opposition.  |
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Post by ranger007 on Apr 7, 2019 18:09:10 GMT -6
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Post by ranger007 on Apr 7, 2019 18:11:30 GMT -6
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Post by mike on Apr 7, 2019 20:59:09 GMT -6
Ranger I can say that I have been in the presence of what is being called holy laughter. In a response today you quoted that a merry heart does good like a medicine and provided medical data to support this.
I have a merry heart but not because I'm laughing all the time or uncontrollably. My merry heart is because I recognize my debt to God was paid for me, by His own Son. What a great Lord we have!
The word for merry sameach is grateful, joyful, rejoice but not laughter.
Sechoq is laughter, derision, sport.
Ecc 2:2 i said of laughter, It is mad: and of mirth, What doeth it?
Ecc 7:3 Sorrow is better than laughter, for by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better.
Prov 14:13 Even in laughter is the heart pained, And the latter end of joy is affliction.
Gen 21:6 Then Sarah said, "God has made me laugh, and everyone who hears of this will laugh with me."
Verses like these and others seem to indicate a contradiction about laughter. We know that this cannot be as the Word is harmonious. Could you point me to other verses supporting holy laughter that remove this contradiction? Or similar very that would support the laughter shown in the video posted displays or how you explain it?
I had a bit a of a laughing fit on my way to work the other day. It was truly hilarious and it was the Holy Spirit reminding me of who I once was immediately after being judgmental towards someone. It went something like "I can't remember a time when I acted that way Lord" and BAM! there it was and I started laughing at myself because I was acting like a fool with my words. I believe He got a chuckle out of me at that moment too. It was a good moment
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Post by boraddict on Apr 7, 2019 23:36:29 GMT -6
Ranger, you remind me of my brother Stewart. He milks his goats twice a day. Then he takes that milk and feeds the baby goats and his 30? cats. Now that makes me laugh because when asked why he does such a thing he just states that he likes goats and cats. He simply does what he likes to do. He has 60 goats. I am trying to understand if this a complement, or an insult. I am not trying to "milk' anything. I have found myself having to defend myself on a daily basis. I responded to Natalie in a detailed response. Maybe you can read that, and understand where I am coming from. Maybe if you took the time to check out my blog, the work would speak for itself. CHRISOh! Sorry about that! All of my comments are meant to be taken in a positive light so please do not read beyond what is said. Thus, my brother Stewart likes goats and cats. Personally I do not understand where he is at, but that is okay with me. He likes to do things his way. The same condition exists for you Ranger. You like to do things your way and that is okay with me. I mean, why would a guy milk goats just to feed that milk to baby goats and cats; and in your case ranger, I do not understand the posting of your material and not enjoying the subsequent debates. I mean for me it is all about the debates. In fact I occasionally interject something to increase the possibility of a debate; that is the fun of it all. I pile on the information to provoke a response. If no one responds then I am deeply saddened. Like no one cares! So I twist the knife just a little and find that everyone does care. Like Vinge for instance, he is so much fun. Just give him a little twist and he will pull his hair out in debate. Love you venge. In fact the debates are not really debates but conversations over technical issues like when Lord Jesus was born, how long his ministry was, and the like. No insult, and no milking of anything. You are a very good and kind person and I like you just the way you are. In fact I love my brother Stewart very much so my comment was clearly a complement to you; that you remind me of my brother Stewart. I thought it was a given that I love my brother and the comparison was a complement. I do however hold in contempt the LDS church and reserve my criticisms for them but neither you nor my brother Stewart fall into that camp. 1) you do not follow the false LDS church leaders, 2) you do not worship the LDS church leaders. That pretty much sums up that topic. Chris, I have checked out your blog and I like it very much, yet I do not feel comfortable engaging you in that arena. I do not feel that your blog is the place for open discussion like it is here. The problem here at Unsealed is that it can be overwhelming at times. I have been there and understand what you are going through. Yet, the "hazing" is not intentional but sharpens the sward. We are not here to join "yes men" but to share and strengthen our testimonies in Christ. Thus, we engage each other with love and give the best of our belief. Nevertheless, we must strive to be at the top of our game through study and prayer and stand in the light of our brothers and sisters who will confirm our growth one way or another. If our belief holds muster then we all learn together. Unsealed is a rare site that encourages such growth. |
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Post by ranger007 on Apr 8, 2019 10:33:40 GMT -6
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Post by ranger007 on Apr 8, 2019 10:53:25 GMT -6
Ranger I can say that I have been in the presence of what is being called holy laughter. In a response today you quoted that a merry heart does good like a medicine and provided medical data to support this. I have a merry heart but not because I'm laughing all the time or uncontrollably. My merry heart is because I recognize my debt to God was paid for me, by His own Son. What a great Lord we have! The word for merry sameach is grateful, joyful, rejoice but not laughter. Sechoq is laughter, derision, sport. Ecc 2:2 i said of laughter, It is mad: and of mirth, What doeth it?
Ecc 7:3 Sorrow is better than laughter, for by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better.
Prov 14:13 Even in laughter is the heart pained, And the latter end of joy is affliction.
Gen 21:6 Then Sarah said, "God has made me laugh, and everyone who hears of this will laugh with me."Verses like these and others seem to indicate a contradiction about laughter. We know that this cannot be as the Word is harmonious. Could you point me to other verses supporting holy laughter that remove this contradiction? Or similar very that would support the laughter shown in the video posted displays or how you explain it? I had a bit a of a laughing fit on my way to work the other day. It was truly hilarious and it was the Holy Spirit reminding me of who I once was immediately after being judgmental towards someone. It went something like "I can't remember a time when I acted that way Lord" and BAM! there it was and I started laughing at myself because I was acting like a fool with my words. I believe He got a chuckle out of me at that moment too. It was a good moment In response to your question, Mike. You say you have been in the "Presence" of Holy Laughter, but maybe not a participant, is that correct? Observing can give wrong impressions from the start. Here we go again with my daily explanation. No one said you have to laugh all the time or "Uncontrollability." If you had read my personal account I gave to Yardstick, you would not have made those comments. You also quoted other scriptures that I did not, and tried to tie them to my statements. That is why you have the contradiction. I have explained to you in depth, and you still have your opinion. Then you end up mocking, and yes you are acting like a fool with your words, because you are being judgmental. To try and explain some moves of God, or give scripture to PROVE what God decides to do, is not always available. We don't understand sometimes why God chooses to operate the way He does. " But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28) and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29) that no flesh should glory in His presence. 30) But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31) that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.” (1 Corinthians 1:27-31 NKJV). To think we must dissect every word I say intellectually, is disingenuous. I hope this helps clarify your questions. |
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Post by ranger007 on Apr 8, 2019 11:04:38 GMT -6
I am trying to understand if this a complement, or an insult. I am not trying to "milk' anything. I have found myself having to defend myself on a daily basis. I responded to Natalie in a detailed response. Maybe you can read that, and understand where I am coming from. Maybe if you took the time to check out my blog, the work would speak for itself. CHRISOh! Sorry about that! All of my comments are meant to be taken in a positive light so please do not read beyond what is said. Thus, my brother Stewart likes goats and cats. Personally I do not understand where he is at, but that is okay with me. He likes to do things his way. The same condition exists for you Ranger. You like to do things your way and that is okay with me. I mean, why would a guy milk goats just to feed that milk to baby goats and cats; and in your case ranger, I do not understand the posting of your material and not enjoying the subsequent debates. I mean for me it is all about the debates. In fact I occasionally interject something to increase the possibility of a debate; that is the fun of it all. I pile on the information to provoke a response. If no one responds then I am deeply saddened. Like no one cares! So I twist the knife just a little and find that everyone does care. Like Vinge for instance, he is so much fun. Just give him a little twist and he will pull his hair out in debate. Love you venge. In fact the debates are not really debates but conversations over technical issues like when Lord Jesus was born, how long his ministry was, and the like. No insult, and no milking of anything. You are a very good and kind person and I like you just the way you are. In fact I love my brother Stewart very much so my comment was clearly a complement to you; that you remind me of my brother Stewart. I thought it was a given that I love my brother and the comparison was a complement. I do however hold in contempt the LDS church and reserve my criticisms for them but neither you nor my brother Stewart fall into that camp. 1) you do not follow the false LDS church leaders, 2) you do not worship the LDS church leaders. That pretty much sums up that topic. Chris, I have checked out your blog and I like it very much, yet I do not feel comfortable engaging you in that arena. I do not feel that your blog is the place for open discussion like it is here. The problem here at Unsealed is that it can be overwhelming at times. I have been there and understand what you are going through. Yet, the "hazing" is not intentional but sharpens the sward. We are not here to join "yes men" but to share and strengthen our testimonies in Christ. Thus, we engage each other with love and give the best of our belief. Nevertheless, we must strive to be at the top of our game through study and prayer and stand in the light of our brothers and sisters who will confirm our growth one way or another. If our belief holds muster then we all learn together. Unsealed is a rare site that encourages such growth. Thank you for your kind words and explanation. I have no problem with an open discussion, that is how we sharpen each other. Frankly, I don't always have the time to constantly defend my statements, or answer questions. That is why I don't engage in chat rooms, at other sites. I want to stay on a friendly basis with everyone, even the moderators. It does get frustrating when I do explain things, and I have to DAILY review the same material. My blog is there for the body of Christ, or those who are not, to learn solid Biblical truths. A plan of Salvation is included at the end of most of my series. We are trying to spread the Gospel worldwide, and are currently viewed in 36 countries. I have a place for likes, and comments, at the bottom of each page. If some of you read my work, and have specific questions, that need to be clarified, I am happy to do that. CHRIS |
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Post by mike on Apr 8, 2019 13:20:29 GMT -6
ranger007 said: several times Chris. I agree observing and participating would not be the same. No need to debate this further thanks for responding. You sound frustrated. Is not ok to ask questions of your experience to gain understanding? I know that you realize you are posting on a discussion forum. Some of the information and responses generate questions. ALthough you did not state the laughing would be all the time or uncontrollable, I did observe such behavior in the video of Mr. Hagin, who you refer to as Dad. Also I did read your reply to Yardstick it is incorrect for you to assume I may not have, nor do I understand why you would assume I wouldnt ask a question (although your words are "made those comments"). Of course I realize you did not post the scriptures, I did. Again - I am attempting to understand something that I see as contradictory. I asked questions of you to gain insight into a topic you are stating is a move of God. Yes I have thoughts on it, but am attempting to dialogue with you with an open mind about it. Here is where I have issue with your comments. I was in no way mocking. You believe you experienced a move of God. I am not so sure. You have stated along the lines of 'because [someone] may not understand a move of God doesnt make it wrong'. I took that statement at face value and asked questions of you. Perhaps you did not read the questions that way and interpreted them in a certain way other than what was intended. For that I apologize to you. However for you to judge my motive and refer to me as acting like a fool is not only incorrect, it's out of place. I will leave my attempt to better understand your view on things and research elsewhere as to not frustrate you any longer. I wish you well with you blog. May you reach many with the love of Christ before His soon return. John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
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