|
|
Post by watchmanjim on May 17, 2017 21:55:14 GMT -6
Nowhere in Scripture do I see any direct reference to what will happen to babies at the time of the Rapture, although there may be some slant references. After all, the church, according to Rev 12, is pictured as a baby. But what happens to real live babies?
I find it interesting that, while Jesus clearly has a massive soft-spot for babies and children, we are given very little (ok, maybe none) special instructions regarding how to deal with babies from a spiritual perspective. We are not told specifically to baptize them, though some denominations gather that from sparse and vague understandings and long-lasting traditions. From the loss of David's son, and David's reaction to his son's death, we learn that babies' souls are safe with God and not made to suffer for "original sin" or any other kind. This does, however make us wonder how old a child has to be before God holds them accountable before Him for their sins. My understanding is that there is a day for each person, where you are old enough to know better--old enough to comprehend the idea of sin as disobedience to God, and from that point onward one is marked for destruction until they put their faith and confidence in Christ's finished work on the cross. So that's easy enough to explain when dealing with death, but what about the Rapture?
Several theoretic possibilities:
All babies and children below the age of accountability are raptured out.
All babies and children below the age of accountability, whose parents are saved, are raptured out
No babies or children are raptured out unless they have trusted Christ, all are left to fend for themselves with or without the help of parents or new guardians.
The same basic choices could be asked about babies in the womb, except I think logic demands that babies in the womb of a mother who is raptured would automatically be transported as well.
In Tim Lahaye's Left Behind series, it was assumed that all children below a certain age, or age of accountability, were raptured, as well as all babies in all wombs. This would leave unsaved mothers experiencing a sudden internal vacuum in their womb IF the Rapture is ethereal rather than forcible in nature. (That's another big question!) If the Rapture is forcible, I suspect these babies in the wombs of unregenerate mothers would remain.
So in conclusion, would there be any children on earth, the day after the Rapture?
|
|
|
|
Post by septembermiracle on May 25, 2017 19:14:29 GMT -6
My son is 26 but profoundly autistic. He has the mind of a two year old. Will he go with me in the rapture?
|
|
|
|
Post by watchmanjim on May 25, 2017 19:24:06 GMT -6
I would think so, September! There are many others like him in the world, and I know the people who are mentally handicapped are the special beloved of the Lord. If your son is not capable of understanding his sin and responsibility before the Lord, I'm sure the Lord has him covered under His blood. That's the best answer I can come up with.  Welcome to the forum. |
|
|
|
Post by whatif on May 25, 2017 23:01:51 GMT -6
I agree with watchmanjim, septembermiracle--and I know it will give the Lord great pleasure to heal your son at that time of resurrection joy!
|
|
|
|
Post by mike on Jul 14, 2017 10:48:25 GMT -6
Hi All,
I'm new to the forum, joining today but have been reading along for about a month or two now. The upcoming (likely) fulfillment of Rev 12 is why I have been researching for signs, answers and the like. One of the biggest questions I've always had was the posed in this thread, and really my (main) reason for joining as I wanted to pose a similar/same question.
I fully believe in a rapture event. I also believe that our society, events in the earth and in the stars (among many other signs) are all pointing to the soon return of our Lord. I have long held the belief the rapture would be before the tribulation (or the 7 year Anti-Christ time frame). My biggest hangup with this view is the young.
Most, likely agree that there becomes an age of accountability. This is not a dogmatic statement as "at age 13 all kids are accountable" as I feel each has a level of maturity that is achieved at differing ages. As for the handicapped or mentally ill, i'd be hard to pressed to say the same approach is applicable. Of course I really try not to focus on when this age happens as that is not my role, it is the Lord who judges/decides.
Back to the issue i have which i feel was spelled out mostly in the original post with really no explanation, and perhaps there isnt one. Perhaps this is one of those things that the Lord will not help or permit us to understand.
If all babies are innocent and assumed to be raptured, the entire planet would have zero babies on that day. Well although i am not concerned as i will not be here, i do wonder what the entire planet will think when this happens. Surely most wouldnt seem to mind if only adults and many graves were opened and bodies missing everywhere. I am inclined to believe this will be explained away as "aliens took them" or perhaps as many other may feel the "aliens" will be revealed and explain they took US (the people who cause division) out of the way so peace can be established, etc. But what about the young children and babies?
I guess my question is really to those who will in fact be left behind. We do know that many will come to the saving knowledge after the rapture as they will realize the event is truly supernatural (and other dimensional rather than other worldly), but what will those who are left behind think when there simply are zero children left on the planet? The "aliens" took all of them? Thinking about this in a diabolical manner, i feel even the liar, deceiver himself will have a hard time explaining this one and deceiving.
perhaps my view on this is not correct. I would really love to others thoughts on this topic. Perhaps a middle tribulation rapture makes better sense or even post tribulation (however there wouldnt be many of us left at that point).
One last thought...Many quote Matthew 24 as a prophecy linked to the end (rapture, trib, etc). verse 19 seems to me to indicate that there would be babies still around in those days. Although my view on this chapter is that of most of this chapter discusses the destruction of the temple, as Jesus was in fact answer the question posed to Him, He doesnt really address the END until maybe verse 24.
Mike
|
|
|
|
Post by whatif on Jul 14, 2017 11:24:52 GMT -6
Welcome to the forum, mike! We're so glad you've joined us! You ask some good questions. My speculation is that babies and little children who are yet under that age of accountability would be raptured out of this evil world. I speculate that because, with the mark of the beast system, the little ones would likely be marked at birth by the hospitals or at doctors' offices under the authority of parents who wish to have the procedure done for their children. That would mean the innocents would be marked forcibly--without their consent. It seems to me that would be something our good Lord would not allow to happen. But that is just my speculation.
|
|
|
|
Post by mike on Jul 14, 2017 11:45:58 GMT -6
Thanks Whatif...I hadnt considered that aspect, however it is still the same issue that i have at the end. I guess the reason I question it is that to an unbeliever, disbeliever, atheist or whoever there would have to be some type of explanation for zero babies. Albeit the reason for no babies would ultimately be a lie, it would be reasonable or believable enough to accept. for example how many unlearned people believe in evolution (rhetorical)? I struggle with this (rapture) as do unbelievers when this topic comes up. No one can simply believe the world will be baby-less, let alone possibly all pregnancies seemingly come to an abrupt end with the baby gone missing from the womb without reason! Moreover, now that i think of your speculation/possible explanation, the day/week/month after the rapture (or anytime during the subsequent 3.5 yrs.) one would have to believe that at least one woman on the planet would conceive. Therefore that particular baby/babies would be subject to the mark of the beast, right? As i have done with evolution and refuting its nonesense, i am eager to find some rationale to exposure the enemy and his lies ahead of when they occur. At the very least that when the event does occur those who are left will then know the truth and the truth will make free. Theyll (have to) be(come) headless but at least theyll know |
|
|
|
Post by kjs on Jul 14, 2017 12:20:15 GMT -6
The most plausible theory I have heard – that will be put forward to explain the disappearances is that the “aliens” have decided to remove all those who were too unstable of mind or too young to understand the global enlightenment the aliens are bringing to the world. Those removed will be undergoing training in the attempt to salvage those people that can be “salvaged” and they will be returned once the training has been complete.
This theory provides several features to sooth the panic of those left behind:
1) The Children were taken because they are too young to understand the changes that need to be accomplished before full enlightenment can be achieved. Their training in the appropriate environment will be for their benefit and they will be returned when they are able to rejoin society.
2) Those adults taken have a defect of their mind which caused them to have a too restrictive, narrow view of the world. They will undergo therapy in the attempt to correct this defect; and if successful, will also be returned. Those whose defect cannot be corrected will need to be done away with – to ensure no one else is corrupted by their defect.
3) Those remaining are already partially enlightened; and should be able to transition into the new global enlightenment without a problem – so they were left to being the core group to bring about the needed change.
This theory provides both plausible reasons why some were taken (especially the children) and why it great they were left behind – because they were superior then those that were taken.
|
|
|
|
Post by whatif on Jul 14, 2017 12:24:33 GMT -6
Yes, the explanation for babies being missing would have to be quite a doozy to convince unbelievers it wasn't the rapture. There is certainly the alien deception as a possibility. However, I actually suspect that the world will indeed understand that the rapture has occurred. My speculation is that the rapture occurs at the 6th Seal, at which point Revelation 6:16 seems to indicate that the world realizes the Lord's judgment is upon them: They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide usf from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”
I also wonder how difficult it will be for children to actually be conceived and born at the time of the tribulation, what with the plagues of horrible diseases, natural disasters, persecutions, wars, and so on. And those children who are conceived and born would have at the most just a little over 6 years before Jesus' return to earth to set up His kingdom, so perhaps those young ones will be some of the first to be taken to Him for healing and comfort. Perhaps, too, if they are given the mark of the beast at birth--i.e. without their own consent--the Lord would not count it against them at the time of the judgment. I know our Lord is just in all His ways, and He will sort everything out in the end. |
|
|
|
Post by mike on Jul 14, 2017 12:47:37 GMT -6
The most plausible theory I have heard – that will be put forward to explain the disappearances is that the “aliens” have decided to remove all those who were too unstable of mind or too young to understand the global enlightenment the aliens are bringing to the world. Those removed will be undergoing training in the attempt to salvage those people that can be “salvaged” and they will be returned once the training has been complete. This theory provides several features to sooth the panic of those left behind: 1) The Children were taken because they are too young to understand the changes that need to be accomplished before full enlightenment can be achieved. Their training in the appropriate environment will be for their benefit and they will be returned when they are able to rejoin society. 2) Those adults taken have a defect of their mind which caused them to have a too restrictive, narrow view of the world. They will undergo therapy in the attempt to correct this defect; and if successful, will also be returned. Those whose defect cannot be corrected will need to be done away with – to ensure no one else is corrupted by their defect. 3) Those remaining are already partially enlightened; and should be able to transition into the new global enlightenment without a problem – so they were left to being the core group to bring about the needed change. This theory provides both plausible reasons why some were taken (especially the children) and why it great they were left behind – because they were superior then those that were taken. I like point 1 as a possibility and 2 make sense (as does 3, which is the big deception as this will play to the EGO of those who already hate God). Another thought I have is the possibility of something astronomical coming (Nibiru or whatever may be headed this way). Aliens saved the "babies" but will return them later also seems to fit with this factored into the equation. Again most of these are "far fetched" as the media and elite hide these things for common knowledge and only program the masses for what they want us to hear. So a theory of Nibiru and aliens is plausible and has been hinted at quite a bit in the recent months. thanks for chiming in |
|
|
|
Post by delo63 on Jul 14, 2017 13:12:03 GMT -6
the alien theory sounds like something my atheist friends would by into. A theory of mine that idk if it was already said is that the people left behind will be convinced that God or aliens took away all the inferior humans and left behind the superior humans. I got this idea from researching the attributes of the antichrist. I know he will deceive the world by telling them they are there own gods and that they are the dominant race or people. Think about what hitler tried to do, he wanted to get rid of the weaker race in his mind and only wanted certain people who he judged as acceptable in his world, I can see the antichrist doing something like this to convince the masses.
Remember those that are left behind are not saved, so a good majority of them are proud and boastful, so its not too far fetched that they would believe that they were sparred from damnation because of how good they are or how strong they are or something along those lines.
Any thoughts?
|
|
|
|
Post by mike on Jul 14, 2017 13:33:44 GMT -6
the alien theory sounds like something my atheist friends would by into. A theory of mine that idk if it was already said is that the people left behind will be convinced that God or aliens took away all the inferior humans and left behind the superior humans. I got this idea from researching the attributes of the antichrist. I know he will deceive the world by telling them they are there own gods and that they are the dominant race or people. Think about what hitler tried to do, he wanted to get rid of the weaker race in his mind and only wanted certain people who he judged as acceptable in his world, I can see the antichrist doing something like this to convince the masses. Remember those that are left behind are not saved, so a good majority of them are proud and boastful, so its not too far fetched that they would believe that they were sparred from damnation because of how good they are or how strong they are or something along those lines. Any thoughts? If the rapture is truly anytime soon then the alien explanation is really the only plausible one. I agree that those left behind are not saved. That in and of itself is a very loaded topic of debate/discussion as there will be many left behind who thought they were saved. Others who have heard and rejected the gospel will immediately realize their error, but i believe this will not be large proportion of populace. I often think..."there's 2.3 billion (alleged) Christians in the world" at least thats the statistic i've heard. Naturally that cant be true and i highly doubt the rapture of living will amount to even 10% of that (who am I to say :-) ). So the event itself will not take 1/4 of the population off the planet. That minimizes the impact right away as the other 6.5 billion people left (or whatever the number) continue on as if nothing happened, others who believe in Islam (1 billion) will likley continue in the religious bondage (most of them at least), yet it will still cause quite a stir globally. So to me the alien explanation is the most likely. there's a lot more to the alien aspect as it relates to CERN and such as well. More to come soon i'm sure. I eagerly watch daily!! |
|
|
|
Post by delo63 on Jul 14, 2017 13:55:38 GMT -6
i honestly think that the reason the rapture will happen is because of all of those i wont believe it till i see it folks. What more proof would they need then all of the true believers disappearing like they said they would.
|
|
|
|
Post by kjs on Jul 14, 2017 14:23:17 GMT -6
the alien theory sounds like something my atheist friends would by into. A theory of mine that idk if it was already said is that the people left behind will be convinced that God or aliens took away all the inferior humans and left behind the superior humans. I got this idea from researching the attributes of the antichrist. I know he will deceive the world by telling them they are there own gods and that they are the dominant race or people. Think about what hitler tried to do, he wanted to get rid of the weaker race in his mind and only wanted certain people who he judged as acceptable in his world, I can see the antichrist doing something like this to convince the masses. Remember those that are left behind are not saved, so a good majority of them are proud and boastful, so its not too far fetched that they would believe that they were sparred from damnation because of how good they are or how strong they are or something along those lines. Any thoughts? If the rapture is truly anytime soon then the alien explanation is really the only plausible one. I agree that those left behind are not saved. That in and of itself is a very loaded topic of debate/discussion as there will be many left behind who thought they were saved. Others who have heard and rejected the gospel will immediately realize their error, but i believe this will not be large proportion of populace. I often think..."there's 2.3 billion (alleged) Christians in the world" at least thats the statistic i've heard. Naturally that cant be true and i highly doubt the rapture of living will amount to even 10% of that (who am I to say :-) ). So the event itself will not take 1/4 of the population off the planet. That minimizes the impact right away as the other 6.5 billion people left (or whatever the number) continue on as if nothing happened, others who believe in Islam (1 billion) will likley continue in the religious bondage (most of them at least), yet it will still cause quite a stir globally. So to me the alien explanation is the most likely. there's a lot more to the alien aspect as it relates to CERN and such as well. More to come soon i'm sure. I eagerly watch daily!! Going to disagree with you here… There are 7.5 Billion people currently on the earth On average USA has 350 million births per year India and China – each have about 1 billion births per year So on yearly basis there are at least 2.5 billion people born…. As this topic suggests – if all BABIES and children under a certain age are part of the rapture Just the babies makes 1/3 the population – add in the children under a certain age brings it closer to ½ the population…. Added in the Christians say even 10% of the population Could make it 3 to 4 billion disappearing – that would be way more than ¼ of the population |
|
|
|
Post by watchmanjim on Jul 14, 2017 21:16:44 GMT -6
If the rapture is truly anytime soon then the alien explanation is really the only plausible one. I agree that those left behind are not saved. That in and of itself is a very loaded topic of debate/discussion as there will be many left behind who thought they were saved. Others who have heard and rejected the gospel will immediately realize their error, but i believe this will not be large proportion of populace. I often think..."there's 2.3 billion (alleged) Christians in the world" at least thats the statistic i've heard. Naturally that cant be true and i highly doubt the rapture of living will amount to even 10% of that (who am I to say :-) ). So the event itself will not take 1/4 of the population off the planet. That minimizes the impact right away as the other 6.5 billion people left (or whatever the number) continue on as if nothing happened, others who believe in Islam (1 billion) will likley continue in the religious bondage (most of them at least), yet it will still cause quite a stir globally. So to me the alien explanation is the most likely. there's a lot more to the alien aspect as it relates to CERN and such as well. More to come soon i'm sure. I eagerly watch daily!! Going to disagree with you here… There are 7.5 Billion people currently on the earth On average USA has 350 million births per year India and China – each have about 1 billion births per year So on yearly basis there are at least 2.5 billion people born…. As this topic suggests – if all BABIES and children under a certain age are part of the rapture Just the babies makes 1/3 the population – add in the children under a certain age brings it closer to ½ the population…. Added in the Christians say even 10% of the population Could make it 3 to 4 billion disappearing – that would be way more than ¼ of the population KJS, I love you, man, but I think you miscalculated. There are approximately 350 million people LIVING in the US, not births per year in the US. If every female alive in the US had one baby in a single year, that would only be 175 million, and as we know, not all female people can or will have a baby in any given year. The number is much lower. I can get the stats if I need to. Likewise, China and India each have over 1 billion people in them, but not 1 billion births per year. It's ok, I think we all make mistakes like this. It's really easy to do, and I've made a fair few myself. |
|
