tyler
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Posts: 14 
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Post by tyler on Dec 5, 2018 21:56:37 GMT -6
Hi everyone! You all have been a tremendous blessing to me and my family since early 2017! I love the discussions here, and the articles are always so timely đ Side note: I was listening to the song âCloser Than You Knowâ by Hillsong. Give it a listen. Surely it will bless you as it has me in these last days.
I debated whether or not to add this question to either the Salvation or Rapture thread. My wife and I are both saved by the redeeming power of the blood of Christ poured out for us, His death and resurrection! Grace by faith alone, less any man should boast! The Lord has blessed us with two beautiful daughters (ages 4 and 1) and a handsome, energetic sweet boy, Noah, who just turned 3. I am the oldest of four boys and remember having conversations with my parents about their fervent prays for all of their sons to come to a personal understanding of Jesus as our redeeming savior. I think of our sweet children and pray for them continually. Can you all help me? I honestly donât know if there is a black and white answer, but is there scriptural proof of an age of accountability? Different for different individuals? Ect. Greatly appreciate you, brothers and sisters. Go listen to closer than you know. đ
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Post by rt on Dec 5, 2018 23:14:43 GMT -6
Hi Tyler,
I don't think there is a definitive answer scripturally speaking but I have always thought this passage may shed some light on the subject
Of course we know that this prophetic passage was about Christ Himself, and that Jesus never sinned. But the point here is to show a time frame, before the boy is old enough to eat curds and honey the land whose two kings are dreaded will be forsaken. That age- when a boy eats curds and honey is equated to the age when he knows enough to refuse evil and choose good. So this begs the question, what is that age? I read some commentaries that say it is 3 years of age, others said 12. I would suggest that the three years of age would be more reasonable, since a child would certainly be able to eat curds and honey long before turning age 12. The point however is that there comes a time in every person's life when they know to refuse evil and choose good. I think that age may vary from person to person. For some it may be as young as three, but having raised 3 of my own kids, I would venture to say it was more like 5 or even 6 before they really grasped that idea firmly. For some kids it may be older.
Then it seems when they hit puberty they lose all sense of right and wrong while their hormones are raging, until they hit about 20! (ha ha)
Not sure if any of this really helps answer your question
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Post by mike on Dec 6, 2018 9:05:58 GMT -6
Hi Tyler,
I want to interject something to challenge you to study this on your own. Based on the way you phrased your question I am assuming that you hold a pre-trib rapture view where it is assumed but not stated in scripture, that ALL children will be taken up in the rapture.
This assumption and your question have challenged me as well for some time. While part of me hangs on to RT's explanation and the view that children are innocent, what if the rapture isnt quite what we think it should be? OR what if those who feel the rapture comes when He actually returns? I know this would challenge lots of viewpoints, but as we draw near to the end I (and others) have begun to see certain things not exactly the way we may have been taught. Those preconceived teachings are not necessarily wrong, but may not have had the information or revelevation necessary to consider.
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Post by cwood85 on Dec 6, 2018 9:06:12 GMT -6
The age of accountability used to stress me out greatly. I am not sure where exactly the idea of this came about, and feel it leads to unnecessary worry and anxiety. I know there is mention of it in the OT, but that was for age maturity for priestly service, not salvation. The two are often confused and linked together, when there is no such link or relation whatsoever. I used to worry terribly about my son, who is now 6 and he has absolutely no interest in praying, reading from the bible, and thinks it is all rather boring lol. I do not worry about that anymore and here are some verses for comfort, because God has a plan for all and we are to trust and rest in Him. We cannot save someone, are not responsible, nor convince them like a sales pitch and here are scriptures to back this up: "12But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away. 14For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy. 15Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us to peace. 16For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?"
17Only, as the Lord has assigned to each one, as God has called each, in this manner let him walk.
- 1 Cor. 7:12-17"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.- John 6:4465And He was saying, âFor this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.â- John 6:6510For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.Hope these are helpful  |
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Post by fitz on Dec 6, 2018 12:44:21 GMT -6
I think it has to do with the ability to grasp the gospel. The capacity to believe in Jesus as one does as an adult. This is milk, so even a young child can understand it, but the age this happens is surely different for everyone.
I donât have any scripture to back this, but only my own experience. Hope this doesnât get too long, but I feel led to share.
My Parents were saved in 1970, when I was 6. In those days, I can remember going to church with them. I loved Sunday school and remember learning all 66 books of the bible and being able to recite them in order, which is something I canât do today! I remember talking to God, asking Him simple questions about who He was, about heaven, angels, Jesus and other things. I distinctly remember believing in Jesus, even at that time. I took from my parentâs faith, learning from their teaching about Jesus, and honestly, I canât really remember a time that I didnât believe in Jesus. HoweverâŠ
At the age of 12, the summer of 1976, my family moved from a small rural town in Michigan to a large city outside Houston, TX. The first week we were in Texas, mid-August, we attended a ârevivalâ at a little church there. It ran all week and we attended every night, hearing a different evangelist speaking each night. By Friday, I was sick of it! This was a time of turmoil for my sister (1 year younger than me) and I as we were just a couple weeks from starting at a new, and much larger school. We were both pretty freaked out with all the culture change.
On that Friday night, I had a pretty bad attitude going in and was glad this would be the last service of the event. The preacher was announced and he walked up to the front of the church. I was mortified! This guy was wearing what I perceived to be a âparsonsâ outfitâŠlong black robe-like thing and a big black, wide-brimmed hat, and he was old, with long white hair. He looked like a preacher from the old west! I remember thinking that this was bound to be painful. Honestly, I hadnât gotten much out the entire week and I was only focused on my current set of circumstances and it was all I could think about.
It was announced that he would be preaching on the blood of Jesus, and so he did. I canât remember the sermon at all, but just the prayer at the end. He gave an invitation, and as I closed my eyes and the prayer began, I believe God gave me a vision. It was Jesus on the crossâŠand I could see Him literally bleeding and dying. At that moment, God spoke to my heart⊠I heard âthis is what my Son has done for you. Though you believe that he did this, and until now have been covered by your parentâs faith, it is now time for you and I to begin a new relationship.â
Well, this just broke me. I remember going forward and when I sat down on the alter, I was shocked to see that my sister had followed right behind me. We were both a mess, crying uncontrollably. I believe she had received a similar message. After the prayer, we were taken to a back room where some folks in the ministry talked with us. My sister and I couldnât stop crying and they asked us what we were feeling. All we could say was âIâm so HOTâ! To this day, we both believe it was a baptism of Holy Spirit fire that we felt and both of us point to that day as the day of our salvation.
My mother has it written in her bible as August 13, 1976. I really wish I had a way to find out who that preacher was.
Teach your children about Jesus. Give them the gospel, even if you think they are too young to comprehend it. Pray for them and let God do the rest. You can trust Him with your children's lives.
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Post by kjs on Dec 6, 2018 13:04:18 GMT -6
The âAge of Accountabilityâ is not something that is directly taught in the Bible. There are some verses like those that cwood85 shared that bring some comfort to a parent; but even those are limited in scope because there is nothing specifically stated with the Bible.
Practically, all denominations have their own spin when it comes to this issue. Some even apply this concept beyond just age, to include those who do not have the mental capability to understandâŠ. Being included with the âbeing saved groupâ. Again, there is no verse that specifically states that.
One thing that brings me comfort â is seeing the recorded stories of how Jesus interacted with children. One story says Jesus specially asked for all the children come to him (in Matt 19:14.) It is recorded three times in the Bible (Luke 17:2, Matt 18:6, and Mark 9:42) âŠIt would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumbleâŠ.. Seems to suggest that children rate a special place in Jesus (and Godâs) all-encompassing Love.
The age of accountability is the belief that God saves all those who die never having possessed the ability to make a decision for or against Christ. One verse that may speak to this issue is Romans 1:20; where Paul points out that the wonders of this physical world clearly show Godâs existence and power and therefore man/women are without excuse.; The other-side of the coin (so to speak) is that IF one does NOT understand the wonders of the world which point to Godâs existence â will that âexcuseâ these individuals?
I would say (and I am no one â so take with a grain of salt) â do not put God in a Box!
Meaning if you trust God enough that you realize He (through Jesus) supplied a means for your salvation â
then Believe that His Love and Grace will be there for anyone who was unable to consciously choose. |
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Post by mike on Dec 7, 2018 7:21:59 GMT -6
kjs said: Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.Tyler - After reading KJ's note a couple times my eyes were opened. I have been on a mission to learn about creation not only to be able to give answer for my faith. But also to instruct my daughter and step-sons in truth. 1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fearAs I pondered what he said about Romans 1:20 I applied that to what I have been learning about the Genesis account of our history. The world/beast system is teaching my children that we crawled from ooze as slime and morphed into one creature, then another and so on. You have heard the LIE! I cannot allow that to infiltrate my family any longer and had to ensure I understood scientifically how to defend our faith and the Words of life contained therein. There were far too many times that I had no answer...(mini rant over) Point being that as I realize that our young ones are lied to and the enemy has tried to deceive so so many, I considered the rest of what KJ quoted: Luke 17:1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! 2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.Offend in the Greek - skandalizĂł: to put a snare (in the way), hence to cause to stumble, to give offense. (figuratively) to hinder right conduct or thoughtWOW! Those who are leading our children down the path of unrighteousness and into (eventual) perdition, their fate is far worse than with the millstone around their neck in the sea! Those who influence our children daily whether at school, television, YouTube, billboards, adverts in retail stores...We are pounded with LIES & UNRIGHTEOUSNESS everywhere. The adults, those who Romans 1:18-23 is speaking of are the same who cause children to stumble (as well as other adults), by denying God as He is clearly evident through HIS creation. I am pretty sure this doesnt answer your question as to the age of when one becomes accountable to realize that God is our creator who longs to be in communion with all of us, but it may help you or others understand that going into whatever age we become accountable, the odds are stacked against us. But glory be God as Cwood notes quoting John that no one comes to the Father except the Father draw him, but look at the next verse as well. Taught about God,heard and learned...Teach our children the full story beginning to end, refute the lies. John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
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Post by cwood85 on Dec 7, 2018 11:39:28 GMT -6
Amen!!!!!!!
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tyler
New Member
Posts: 14
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Post by tyler on Dec 7, 2018 12:26:49 GMT -6
Guys, I cannot thank you enough for the time, thought and prayer youâve put into your responses. I have been traveling this week for work, and have been following along in the background. Mike, I do hold a pre-Trib rapture view, and have always assumed that all children and even those mentally incapable to be taken with us. However, thank you for your challenge to seek this out in both prayer and scripture. I also have always leaned towards it hinging upon grasping the gospel, Fitz. I too grew up in what sounds like a very similar home of âalways knowing Jesusâ from a very early age. There of course is a different understanding at 31 vs 7. Our four year old can answer all my questions (well, most), but there is not a full grasp of what that knowledge actually means. Yâall continue to be a blessing to me!
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Post by fitz on Dec 7, 2018 13:28:03 GMT -6
Guys, I cannot thank you enough for the time, thought and prayer youâve put into your responses. I have been traveling this week for work, and have been following along in the background. Mike, I do hold a pre-Trib rapture view, and have always assumed that all children and even those mentally incapable to be taken with us. However, thank you for your challenge to seek this out in both prayer and scripture. I also have always leaned towards it hinging upon grasping the gospel, Fitz. I too grew up in what sounds like a very similar home of âalways knowing Jesusâ from a very early age. There of course is a different understanding at 31 vs 7. Our four year old can answer all my questions (well, most), but there is not a full grasp of what that knowledge actually means. Yâall continue to be a blessing to me! Bingo. I hope that's what my illustration pointed out. From age 6 - 11, my parents gave me the head knowledge, and I actually believed their testimony, but there was no heart knowledge and no relationship that comes from a deeper understanding of the gospel. That came at 12 when I realized the gravity of what Jesus had done for me in a very personal way. That's when I "believed unto salvation". Let me add...fear not, that 4 year old of yours is safe with Jesus until he or she can grasp the truth. |
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Post by AlwaysPraying on Feb 7, 2019 2:09:40 GMT -6
I know that I'm very late in responding to this thread. But I'll post anyway, in case someone else comes across it later.
I've heard it said that the age of accountability might be much older than we suspect. When the Israelites refused to enter the promised land (after scoping out giants in the land), God said that everyone except for the "little ones" (and Caleb, who gave a good report) would not enter the land. An entire generation had to die out first. God specified that to mean everyone twenty years old and above (Numbers 14:29).
So it seems that everyone under 20 was not held responsible for the sin of unbelief like the rest of the nation of Israel.
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tyler
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Posts: 14
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Post by tyler on Aug 10, 2019 5:47:33 GMT -6
Hello everyone, many many many months later I thought of you all on this particular thread when reading 2 Samuel 12 yesterday! I am sure many are aware of the back story. David has Uriah the Hittite essentially murdered by putting him on the front lines in battle to cover up his adultery with Bathsheba, she becomes pregnant and they have a child ⊠2 Samuel 11:27 "...David sent and brought her to his house and she became his wife; then she bore him a son. But the thing that David had done was evil in the sight of the Lord." So what happens next? Nathan is sent to David, and POW! Nathan lays it on him hard! "Then David burned greatly against the man" Nathan replies in verse 7 "You are the man! Thus says the Lord God of Israel." Here's what begins to stick out to me. Other's might see it differently, and this study certainly opened up more questions and searching on my end. David and Bathsheba's child falls very sick. 2 Samuel 12:16-17 describes David's fasting, praying, inquiring of God, laying all night on the ground weeping for his child. The elders of his house stood beside him in order to raise him up of the ground but David was unwilling to get up. Unwilling to listen to them. Unwilling to eat. He fasted and prayed around the clock. And then on the 7th day David's child died. In fact, everyone was afraid to tell David. When David finds out, 2 Samuel 12:20 says, "So David arose from the ground, washed, anointed himself, and changed his clothes; and he came into the house of the Lord and worshiped. Then he came to his own house, and when he requested, they set food before him and he ate." From here the servants begin to question David basically saying that when the child was alive you fasted and wept, but when the child died, you arose and ate food. David's response in verses 22-23 is what I want everyone to hear. 22 "He said, 'While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept; for I said who knows, the lord may be gracious to me, that the child may live. But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I WILL GO TO HIM, BUT HE WILL NOT RETURN TO ME" Here a man that God calls a man after God's own heart, with the understanding that one day he will return to him. Now I'll be honest, that's what I want it to mean. I would greatly appreciate anyone who feels led to respond. God bless |
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Post by venge on Aug 10, 2019 9:16:42 GMT -6
tylerâSo David arose from the ground, washed, anointed himself, and changed his clothes; and he came into the house of the Lord and worshiped. â And I love this. Notice What David did? He rose from the ground as if dead and was renewed by washing (his sins), anointing himself (with the oil of God) and changed his clothes from filthy rags to clean (linen?) as to worship God in his house. He changed his attitude. He made right what he did wrong. If God pronounces judgment, it happens. But we donât groan or become bitter for God loved David and whoever he loves he chastises. David loved that baby though it was born in sin. David was begging God to overlook his sin but doing so doesnât teach David nor does it help him put on a right attitude for God. David cleans himself of wickedness and uncleanliness. He prepared himself spiritually for God though he does this physically. Itâs beautiful!
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