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Post by uscgvet on Feb 7, 2019 18:54:46 GMT -6
Really help me to understand this. "I came for the lost sheep of Israel" This is suggesting that God is exclusive, racist, and prejudice. I just do not see this as a character of the Lord. what is a sheep? A sheep is a herd animal, and unlike any of the other domestic herd animals such as cattle and goats. They seek comfort in numbers and do not do well when singled out on their own. The BIG aspect of a sheep is their desire to FOLLOW for safety and sustenance. He was coming for those LOST, BLINDED, misled, faithless sheep whom He had demonstrated for 4000 years what it was to FOLLOW Him or not. Of course the gentile was a term to apply to a human who was not of this line of people whom were entrusted with the Law. Yes, Jesus had to be born, WALK, die and Rise according to God's established LAW shown thru a group of poeple. But FAITH is the core meaning of this event, not refusal or denial by the Lord to even care for one of his created souls. There are plenty of non-jew persons in the OT that were counted as righteous for their faith. First one I can think of is the story of the scarlet threads that were place outside the window so that those within the household would be spared for that woman and her family. I cannot recall her name. But, she was not a jew. She knew of or HEARD the power of "their" God and seeked the same protection. Ahh... No... Gentiles were, prior to Acts 10, considered unclean, thus, ungodly, or "little dogs" as Jesus puts it. Ezekiel 36:24-27 spells this out..... And just a few chapters before Matt 15 we read: Matthew 10: 5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Jesus was sent to the Jews... Jesus commanded his apostles to also only go to the Jews... NOT the Gentiles, during his earthly ministry. Even in Acts, after the stoning of Stephen: Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only. If apostles went to the gentiles, they would have been in direct violation to the King of King's ORDERS to avoid the unclean gentiles. Peter was the first to go to gentiles in Acts 10 because God Himself intervened and "cleaned" the unclean gentiles. That was what Peter's dream/vision from God was all about. And Rahab the harlot became an Israelite because Jesus is a direct descendant from her through her son Boaz (the kinsman-redeemer). |
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Post by Natalie on Feb 7, 2019 20:21:50 GMT -6
God picked the Jews to be His people. So, yes, that would be exclusive. However, gentiles were allowed to come to Him (Rahab, Ruth, and things like Solomon's request in 1 Kings 8:41-43) A gentile would even be allowed to keep the Passover, but had to be circumcised and thus considered as a Jew (Ex 12:48)
God is still exclusive. You can only come to Him by being grafted in to the spiritual Israel through faith in Israel's Messiah.
I'm wondering if Gentiles became more unclean as time went on. Weren't the Jews supposed to so serve God that Gentiles would want to come and serve Him, too? Yet by the time we get to the NT Jews avoid them as much as possible.
And yes, Jesus did come only to the Jews, at first. He was to be their Messiah and sit on the throne of David. So, no preaching to the Gentiles... yet. (but I still think Gentiles could come in faith just like in the OT) But the Jews rejected Him. Then it became open to all.
I think He was making a way for the Gentiles to be accepted even during His ministry. He declared all foods clean and healed Gentiles because of their faith. I don't think Gentiles were as unclean as the religious leaders would make them. (Couldn't what was unclean become clean?) Didn't Jesus sit and speak with a Samaritan woman?
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Post by boraddict on Feb 8, 2019 8:28:24 GMT -6
Really help me to understand this. "I came for the lost sheep of Israel" This is suggesting that God is exclusive, racist, and prejudice. I just do not see this as a character of the Lord. what is a sheep? A sheep is a herd animal, and unlike any of the other domestic herd animals such as cattle and goats. They seek comfort in numbers and do not do well when singled out on their own. The BIG aspect of a sheep is their desire to FOLLOW for safety and sustenance. He was coming for those LOST, BLINDED, misled, faithless sheep whom He had demonstrated for 4000 years what it was to FOLLOW Him or not. Of course the gentile was a term to apply to a human who was not of this line of people whom were entrusted with the Law. Yes, Jesus had to be born, WALK, die and Rise according to God's established LAW shown thru a group of poeple. But FAITH is the core meaning of this event, not refusal or denial by the Lord to even care for one of his created souls. There are plenty of non-jew persons in the OT that were counted as righteous for their faith. First one I can think of is the story of the scarlet threads that were place outside the window so that those within the household would be spared for that woman and her family. I cannot recall her name. But, she was not a jew. She knew of or HEARD the power of "their" God and seeked the same protection. The tribe of Ephraim is considered the adoption tribe wherein the adoptees into the family of Israel are adopted. That is, when the tribes of Israel split into the northern kingdom Israel and the southern kingdom Judah, and the northern kingdom Israel was conquered and mixed with other peoples, then it (Israel, the northern kingdom) was a mixed blood kingdom but Judah (the southern kingdom) has always remained a pure bloodline. Thus, when Christ came in mortality his reference was that he came not only to Judah but all the tribes of Israel including the mixed bloodlines of Ephraim and the northern tribes. Thus, when we say that Lord Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel then it is that he came for all the tribes of Israel and not Judah exclusively. This included the Samaritans that were despised by the Jews, as well as all other people having the mixed blood of Israel. Thus, when Judah failed to do their work in spreading the gospel message to the world then the mantel of authority was transferred to Ephraim who are commonly known as the Christians. That is, anyone who is a Christian is of the tribe of Ephraim, the tribe of adoption. Thus, in the technical sense Christ is saying that he came for his lost people, the Christians. However, at that time he could not openly do so because it would interfere with his open rebellion against Jewish false doctrine. Thus, he couched his words as he always did in his unique language that he came for the lost sheep of Israel, the lost followers of Christ that are Israel and not exclusively Judah. Notice that he did not say that he came for Judah but Israel. I realize that so many think Israel and Judah are the same thing but they are not. Part of the problem is Ezekiel and the other prophets who relentlessly mix these names in their works. They say Israel meaning Judah the southern tribes, as well as Israel the northern tribes, and Israel meaning all the tribes. You really have to watch the context of the verses especially in Ezekiel. Thus, Christ was stating that he at that time was concentrating on Israel as in Judah as well as Israel as in Ephraim and all the tribes, but not the adoptees; not yet. Then he sent Paul to include all people into the fold; all gentiles to Israel. Judah was not in the mindset to accept such a comprehensive doctrine. Nevertheless, the doctrine that all people were Christ's lost sheep was and is carried to the world via the Christians; not the Jews. Thus, it is easy to see that the mantel of authority rests with the Christians. So, what tribe are they but Ephraim. Thus, the Christians are Israel the lost tribes. Not lost to God but to themselves not knowing from whence they came. They think they are the gentiles as in strangers to the family of Christ but they are not because they are brought out from being strangers when they are born again. They are Israel, the very people to which Christ was sent. So there are basically two levels to Christ's words. In the first case he was sent unto Israel as in all 12 tribes and not exclusively Judah. But more importantly he was sent to gather his people from the gentiles and make them his; the Christians. Or better stated, Israel. Thus, he was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel. He was sent to all who are his and they by being his are Israel. Perhaps part of the problem in understanding this doctrine rests in Judah's insistence that they are the chosen people. Chosen to do what exactly they do not know. However, we do know that Judah was chosen to bring the gospel of salvation to the world. Yet when their time came they were lost to the influences of Satan. This was foreknow by God and Ephraim was positioned to take up that job to take the gospel message unto the world. As I said, Ephraim is the tribe of adoption, thus, all Christians are of Ephraim. Thus, in Israel, the mantel of taking the message of the gospel to the world transferred from Judah to Ephraim. Thus, while Satan was so preoccupied with destroying Judah, Ephraim slipped right through is hands. Thus, Judah as the sacrificial lamb of sorts propelled Ephraim into victory. Thus, after Christ was on the earth then the Christians are chosen to bring the gospel of the salvation of Jesus Christ to the world. Not that Judah did anything decisively wrong mind you. But Judah thought that only they were chosen to bring the gospel to the people of the world. No actually, Judah to this day does not know that they were chosen to bring the gospel to the world, and the Christians know that they are chosen but they do not know that they are Ephraim. This is all so funny I have to laugh. Thus, Satan tried to destroy Israel by splitting it into two kingdoms and then conquering each of those. However, God miraculously caused his gospel to pass though that storm using both kingdoms to bring the gospel message to the world. Great honor to Judah for doing its part in drawing Satan's attention away from Ephraim. They sacrificed their good name for the greater good and they are our heroes; for without Judah's sacrifice, Ephraim might not have been so successful. Judah has quite literally saved us all and we in turn might have an opportunity to to save them as well. |
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Post by Natalie on Feb 8, 2019 9:25:19 GMT -6
boraddict -- I do not think the Bible teaches that the church is Ephraim. I know some denominations teach that there are lost tribes, I am just not sure the church is one of the lost tribes.
barbiosheepgirl -- I though of something else to go along with me previous post when I spoke of Jesus making a way for Gentiles to be accepted. Jesus said that He has other sheep not of Israel. (John 10:16) He was speaking of us; Gentiles who would come to believe in Him. So, again, He was coming to save Israel but He gave a hint that others would also join them. As prophecy said, "He was to be a light unto the Gentiles." (Isaiah 49:6) |
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Post by boraddict on Feb 8, 2019 10:45:05 GMT -6
boraddict -- I do not think the Bible teaches that the church is Ephraim. I know some denominations teach that there are lost tribes, I am just not sure the church is one of the lost tribes.
barbiosheepgirl -- I though of something else to go along with me previous post when I spoke of Jesus making a way for Gentiles to be accepted. Jesus said that He has other sheep not of Israel. (John 10:16) He was speaking of us; Gentiles who would come to believe in Him. So, again, He was coming to save Israel but He gave a hint that others would also join them. As prophecy said, "He was to be a light unto the Gentiles." (Isaiah 49:6) I know that the Christians being considered Ephraim is not taught anywhere. However, consider the logic as follows: 1) Anyone that is born again is Christian, and therefore adopted into the family of God. That is, they were not originally born as a follower of Christ but were born later; a second time spiritually into God's family and thereby became Christian. 2) Since they were not originally of the family of God but later joined that family, then they were adopted into the family of God. That is, anyone can come into the family of God and are thereby adopted into that family. 3) The family of God is Israel 4) There are 12 tribes in Israel 5) Ephraim is the tribe of adoption 6) Since we are born into the family of God and are of Israel, then we are of the adoption tribe Ephraim. Some think we are of Judah but that is not true. All followers of Christ are of Israel via adoption, thus they are of Ephraim. |
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Post by uscgvet on Feb 8, 2019 15:26:31 GMT -6
boraddict -- I do not think the Bible teaches that the church is Ephraim. I know some denominations teach that there are lost tribes, I am just not sure the church is one of the lost tribes.
barbiosheepgirl -- I though of something else to go along with me previous post when I spoke of Jesus making a way for Gentiles to be accepted. Jesus said that He has other sheep not of Israel. (John 10:16) He was speaking of us; Gentiles who would come to believe in Him. So, again, He was coming to save Israel but He gave a hint that others would also join them. As prophecy said, "He was to be a light unto the Gentiles." (Isaiah 49:6) I know that the Christians being considered Ephraim is not taught anywhere. However, consider the logic as follows: 1) Anyone that is born again is Christian, and therefore adopted into the family of God. That is, they were not originally born as a follower of Christ but were born later; a second time spiritually into God's family and thereby became Christian. 2) Since they were not originally of the family of God but later joined that family, then they were adopted into the family of God. That is, anyone can come into the family of God and are thereby adopted into that family. 3) The family of God is Israel 4) There are 12 tribes in Israel 5) Ephraim is the tribe of adoption 6) Since we are born into the family of God and are of Israel, then we are of the adoption tribe Ephraim. Some think we are of Judah but that is not true. All followers of Christ are of Israel via adoption, thus they are of Ephraim. Isaiah 28 doesn't sound too good for Ephraim (nor do other parts of the OT)... I don't think Ephraim is the tribe the Body of Christ gets adopted into. The body of Christ is a new creature... likely nothing to do with the original 12. |
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Post by boraddict on Feb 9, 2019 10:54:36 GMT -6
I know that the Christians being considered Ephraim is not taught anywhere. However, consider the logic as follows: 1) Anyone that is born again is Christian, and therefore adopted into the family of God. That is, they were not originally born as a follower of Christ but were born later; a second time spiritually into God's family and thereby became Christian. 2) Since they were not originally of the family of God but later joined that family, then they were adopted into the family of God. That is, anyone can come into the family of God and are thereby adopted into that family. 3) The family of God is Israel 4) There are 12 tribes in Israel 5) Ephraim is the tribe of adoption 6) Since we are born into the family of God and are of Israel, then we are of the adoption tribe Ephraim. Some think we are of Judah but that is not true. All followers of Christ are of Israel via adoption, thus they are of Ephraim. Isaiah 28 doesn't sound too good for Ephraim (nor do other parts of the OT)... I don't think Ephraim is the tribe the Body of Christ gets adopted into. The body of Christ is a new creature... likely nothing to do with the original 12. Throughout Isaiah he speaks to two groups of people that are the northern tribes collectively called Ephraim and the southern tribes collectively called Judah. The important aspect of Chapter 28 is that the priests and prophets are in Ephraim. This should make the connection to Jerusalem easier to see since that holy city is the center of religious pride as in "Woe to the crown of pride" (v. 28:1). Is it so difficult to see that the crown of pride, Jerusalem, in Isaiah is Ephraim. He begins this metaphorical connection in the very first verse with "The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz which he saw concerning Judah (the southern kingdom) and Jerusalem (the northern kingdom)." This truth is not so difficult to see. Yet, since it is not taught in the stone and mortar churches then you dismiss it a false information. Consider any chapter in Isaiah and both Ephraim and Judah are referenced metaphorically in that chapter. For example Chapter 52 as follows: 1 Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion (this is Judah); put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem (this is Ephraim), the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean. 2 Shake thyself from the dust; arise, and sit down, O Jerusalem (Ephraim): loose thyself from the bands of thy neck, O captive daughter of Zion (Ephraim). 3 For thus saith the LORD, Ye have sold yourselves for nought; and ye shall be redeemed without money. 4 For thus saith the Lord GOD, My people went down aforetime into Egypt to sojourn there; and the Assyrian oppressed them without cause. 5 Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD; and my name continually every day is blasphemed. 6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I. 7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion (Judah), Thy God reigneth! 8 Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the LORD shall bring again Zion (Judah). 9 Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem (Ephraim): for the LORD hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem (Ephraim). 10 The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God. 11 Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing; go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the LORD. 12 For ye shall not go out with haste, nor go by flight: for the LORD will go before you; and the God of Israel will be your rereward. 13 Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high. 14 As many were astonished at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men: 15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider. Who are redeemed with out money as stated in Verse 52:3 (above)? Are not these redeemed the followers of Christ? Thus, the captive daughter of Zion are the followers of Christ: Ephraim? Surely you do not think that Zion and the captive daughter of Zion are one and the same. This is the one thing that I love about Isaiah; his metaphors are consistent. Thus, Zion and captive daughter of Zion mean Judah and Ephraim throughout his entire book. Yet who shall the Lord teach this doctrine? "Them that are weaned from the milk and drawn from the breasts" (v. 28:9). I realize that Chapter 28 is a horrible report to our christian population yet the Lord is teaching new doctrine and those who prefer to hold us back are the priests and prophets in that chapter. They are those who are not willing to learn the signs of the times; they that teach the saints not to follow Christ but to follow and adore them, and the classic example are the LDS. Is not that church full of priest and prophets? Yet, you can not deny the fact that many christian churches today prefer that their people follow them as leaders. They being the priest and prophets of those local congregations. That is why JD is loved among us that he repeatedly teaches to follow only Christ. Thus, it is Christ who is teaching us and not these false christian priests and prophets throughout the world. I realize that nothing I say will convince you that we the followers of Christ are the tribe of Ephraim. Thus, you will never see the complete picture in scripture that is available to you. Like Verses 1:7-9 as follows: 7 Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers. 8 And the daughter of Zion (the Christians) is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city. 9 Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah. As you continue into Chapter 1 is becomes abundantly clear that the Lord is speaking to us. "To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me?" "How is the faithful city (the Christians) become an harlot! It was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it, but now murders"; so many consent to abortion. The book of Isaiah is to us and about us. Isaiah and the other prophets are the prophets of our time. Paul and the other apostles are the apostles of our time. Thus, we have prophets and apostles leading us in this work. |
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Post by Natalie on Feb 9, 2019 22:01:48 GMT -6
Zion and Jerusalem are the same location...in the tribe of Benjamin. The southern kingdom was Judah and Benjamin. I don't know how you get Ephraim as part of this. www.gotquestions.org/Zion.htmlBut yes, it can have spiritual meaning... I think that if Jerusalem is meant to be a symbol for Ephraim it should be in Scripture somewhere. I know of no place that it is. Can you show me someplace? |
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Post by Natalie on Feb 9, 2019 22:27:11 GMT -6
boraddict -- I do not think the Bible teaches that the church is Ephraim. I know some denominations teach that there are lost tribes, I am just not sure the church is one of the lost tribes.
I know that the Christians being considered Ephraim is not taught anywhere. If it is not taught anywhere, this would cause me to hesitate. I would be asking things like .. why is it not taught? Is it scriptural? How come no one else sees it this way? Is my interpretation wrong? Is everyone else wrong (throughout all of church history)? How could that be possible? |
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Post by boraddict on Feb 10, 2019 1:40:12 GMT -6
I know that the Christians being considered Ephraim is not taught anywhere. If it is not taught anywhere, this would cause me to hesitate. I would be asking things like .. why is it not taught? Is it scriptural? How come no one else sees it this way? Is my interpretation wrong? Is everyone else wrong (throughout all of church history)? How could that be possible? Yes I know what you are saying. So let's look at a chapter in Isaiah and apply the rules that I have described. Any chapter will do. How about 46 and I just picked that out of the air. 1 Bel boweth down, Nebo stoopeth, their idols were upon the beasts, and upon the cattle: your carriages were heavy loaden; they are a burden to the weary beast. 2 They stoop, they bow down together; they could not deliver the burden, but themselves are gone into captivity. 3 Hearken unto me, O house of Jacob (this is Judah), and all the remnant of the house of Israel (this is Ephraim), which are borne by me from the belly, which are carried from the womb: 4 And even to your old age I am he; and even to hoar hairs will I carry you: I have made, and I will bear; even I will carry, and will deliver you. 5 To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like? 6 They lavish gold out of the bag, and weigh silver in the balance, and hire a goldsmith; and he maketh it a god: they fall down, yea, they worship. 7 They bear him upon the shoulder, they carry him, and set him in his place, and he standeth; from his place shall he not remove: yea, one shall cry unto him, yet can he not answer, nor save him out of his trouble. 8 Remember this, and shew yourselves men: bring it again to mind, O ye transgressors. 9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. 12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted*, that are far from righteousness: 13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion (Judah) for Israel (Ephraim) my glory. The reason it is not taught is because few know this information. Perhaps it is taught somewhere; I do not know. However, I did find this and it is correct. Isaiah is writing about both Judah and Ephraim throughout his book. Not only that, but the other prophets do as well. That is what I have been telling you. Ezekiel changes up his metaphors and it is so much more difficult to read his work. Whereas Isaiah is quite easy to read. So it appears that "Bel" and "Neho" in Verse 1 are Judah and Ephraim although I have not taken the time to confirm that this is correct. |
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Post by cwood85 on Feb 15, 2019 14:01:54 GMT -6
Really help me to understand this. "I came for the lost sheep of Israel" This is suggesting that God is exclusive, racist, and prejudice. I just do not see this as a character of the Lord. what is a sheep? A sheep is a herd animal, and unlike any of the other domestic herd animals such as cattle and goats. They seek comfort in numbers and do not do well when singled out on their own. The BIG aspect of a sheep is their desire to FOLLOW for safety and sustenance. He was coming for those LOST, BLINDED, misled, faithless sheep whom He had demonstrated for 4000 years what it was to FOLLOW Him or not. Of course the gentile was a term to apply to a human who was not of this line of people whom were entrusted with the Law. Yes, Jesus had to be born, WALK, die and Rise according to God's established LAW shown thru a group of poeple. But FAITH is the core meaning of this event, not refusal or denial by the Lord to even care for one of his created souls. There are plenty of non-jew persons in the OT that were counted as righteous for their faith. First one I can think of is the story of the scarlet threads that were place outside the window so that those within the household would be spared for that woman and her family. I cannot recall her name. But, she was not a jew. She knew of or HEARD the power of "their" God and seeked the same protection. Ahh... No... Gentiles were, prior to Acts 10, considered unclean, thus, ungodly, or "little dogs" as Jesus puts it. Ezekiel 36:24-27 spells this out..... And just a few chapters before Matt 15 we read: Matthew 10: 5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Jesus was sent to the Jews... Jesus commanded his apostles to also only go to the Jews... NOT the Gentiles, during his earthly ministry. Even in Acts, after the stoning of Stephen: Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only. If apostles went to the gentiles, they would have been in direct violation to the King of King's ORDERS to avoid the unclean gentiles. <<< I am unaware of any verses that pertain to this? Unless you are referring to the verse about Jesus coming to the lost sheep of Israel? Just making sure I understand.Peter was the first to go to gentiles in Acts 10 because God Himself intervened and "cleaned" the unclean gentiles. That was what Peter's dream/vision from God was all about. And Rahab the harlot became an Israelite because Jesus is a direct descendant from her through her son Boaz (the kinsman-redeemer). This needs to be taken into consideration: 11“I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. 12“He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13“He flees because he is a hired hand and is not concerned about the sheep. 14“I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, 15even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16“I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd. |
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Post by mike on Feb 15, 2019 17:03:15 GMT -6
Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature (all creation).
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Post by uscgvet on Feb 16, 2019 13:12:31 GMT -6
Ahh... No... Gentiles were, prior to Acts 10, considered unclean, thus, ungodly, or "little dogs" as Jesus puts it. Ezekiel 36:24-27 spells this out..... And just a few chapters before Matt 15 we read: Matthew 10: 5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Jesus was sent to the Jews... Jesus commanded his apostles to also only go to the Jews... NOT the Gentiles, during his earthly ministry. Even in Acts, after the stoning of Stephen: Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only. If apostles went to the gentiles, they would have been in direct violation to the King of King's ORDERS to avoid the unclean gentiles. <<< I am unaware of any verses that pertain to this? Unless you are referring to the verse about Jesus coming to the lost sheep of Israel? Just making sure I understand.Peter was the first to go to gentiles in Acts 10 because God Himself intervened and "cleaned" the unclean gentiles. That was what Peter's dream/vision from God was all about. And Rahab the harlot became an Israelite because Jesus is a direct descendant from her through her son Boaz (the kinsman-redeemer). This needs to be taken into consideration: 11“I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. 12“He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13“He flees because he is a hired hand and is not concerned about the sheep. 14“I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, 15even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16“I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd. "I am unaware of any verses that pertain to this? Unless you are referring to the verse about Jesus coming to the lost sheep of Israel? Just making sure I understand." Matt 10:6-6 Jesus commanded the apostles not to go to the gentiles. Acts 11:19 ", preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only." Do with it what you want. I didn't write it. Jesus was still talking to Jews as his audience here: And "11“I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. 12“He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13“He flees because he is a hired hand and is not concerned about the sheep. 14“I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16“I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd. |
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Post by cwood85 on Feb 16, 2019 20:56:15 GMT -6
uscgvetWhat mike posted was from Jesus to his directions to the apostles right after His resurrection which was before Acts. The apostles had a hard time or did not go directly to the Gentiles because to them through the upbringing through the law continued to think of gentiles as unclean. Because Jesus died and rose for the sins of the world that is why God showed Peter the vision of the animals on the sheet. So yes at that point in Acts it was shown to the apostles that gentiles were on the same level. They needed a visual I guess lol. But Jesus had told them otherwise before Peter had the vision. Honestly I cannot imagine what a whirlwind of an experience and emotional roller coaster that was to try and keep up with for the apostles.
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Post by Timothy on May 20, 2021 14:56:53 GMT -6
Great insight KJ - I'll provide a brief personal history to apply to this situation. I became a believer in 1994. From about 2001 to 2005 I began to drift further away from the relationship back into the world system. I began to live life as if I had never believed. From 2005 until sometime in 2016 I lived life the way those who are opposed to God would. You could apply many of the abominations from the bible to my lifestyle. In 2016 the Lord remembered me. No not that He ever forgot me, He re-membered me! He put me back together, with Him where I belong Was I still saved? |
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