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Post by Gary on Nov 14, 2018 16:12:57 GMT -6
You may already be familiar with some of these details and I would wager that Marzulli and Tom Horn have probably covered them in depth, but did you know that the Bible gives some intriguing details about Goliath's family? I'm presently working on a Bible translation and as I was working through 2 Samuel I came across some details I had never noticed before. Specifically 2 Samuel 21 (And cross-reference with 1 Chronicles 20): 1. Goliath is a descendant of Rapha of the Rephaities/Rephaim, thus the connection to giants and Nephilim is actually pretty clear. Perhaps Rapha was one of the few, or perhaps the only Nephilim to survive? 2. Goliath's spearhead is described as weighing the equivalent of 15-lbs. Go pick up a 15-lb dumbbell and imagine that it is the size of Goliath's spearhead. Furthermore, Goliath's spear is described as being like a weaver's rod. A weaver's rod is approximately 2.5" in diameter. Imagine a mug or coffee cup like a YETI. That's how wide his spear was. You'd have to be enormous just to get your hand around the thing. 3. Goliath's brother is mentioned by name: Lahmi. His spear is also described as being as big around as a weaver's rod. 4. Other brothers/cousins are listed: Saph and Ishbi-Benob. Ishbi-Benob's spearhead is described as being about 7.5-lbs, which is still massive—about the weight of three machetes. 5. A fourth relative is mentioned, but is not named. This unnamed Rephaite/relative of Goliath is explicitly described as have 6 fingers on each hand and 6 toes on each foot. This could definitely be pointing to a hybridization. There is discrepancy in Goliath's height (MT - ~10' vs LXX - ~7'), but the details given in 2 Samuel and 1 Chronicles would seem to point to the Masoretic.  |
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Rapha
Nov 15, 2018 9:05:55 GMT -6
Gary likes this
Post by mike on Nov 15, 2018 9:05:55 GMT -6
Interesting points Gary. I am always curious regarding the Nephilim & Rephaim
What did you mean by:
Are saying this one survived the flood??
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Rapha
Nov 15, 2018 11:28:27 GMT -6
Post by Gary on Nov 15, 2018 11:28:27 GMT -6
Yes, it would seem to be a possibility that Rapha, ancestor of the Rephaim and Goliath, Lahmi, etc, somehow survived, or that angels intermingled with men again, after the Flood.
Here are some Scriptures:
Gen. 6:4 [Emphasis Mine]:
Numbers 13:33:
Numbers 13:33 is particularly interesting because we are given definitive Scriptural proof that the Nephilim, whatever they were, existed both before and after the Flood since Numbers 13 is the Israelite spies' account of their survey of Canaan.
Now it might be that Anak and Rapha both survived the Flood and/or were descendants of a Nephilim who did. Or, it could be that bene elohim-human hybdridization occurred again after the Flood in a more limited instance and these Nephilim were largely relegated to Canaan.
An interesting side note: the Hebrew transliteration Nephilim is translated "giants" in both the LXX and KJV, but a literal translation would be more like "fallen ones", which fits well with the concept of fallen bene elohim/angels.
It's also interesting that despite detractors of the angel-human hybrid concept, the angel hybrid theory is actually more ancient finding its way into a number of Hebrew and Greek writings that predate Christ.
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Rapha
Nov 15, 2018 15:00:39 GMT -6
Post by mike on Nov 15, 2018 15:00:39 GMT -6
I understand that there are detractors of this possibility of hybrid offspring, but that debate is for another thread  I am of the persuasion that when God said every creature would perish this included the Nephilim & Rephaim, assuming these were really "hybrids". There is no chance anything survived this cataclysm. Genesis 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Genesis 6:17
And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
Genesis 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark. The flood lasted about the space of a year. That's a long time for a giant to do the backstroke, without food, drinkable water or any other form of sustenance. Gen 8:3 And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated. 4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat. 5 And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.
Now what I also am persuaded of is that one of the wives of either Ham, Shem or Japeth, likely Ham as the grandfather of Canaan may have carried some form of the "hybrid" genetic beyond the flood. EDIT - one other thing that comes to mind is the absence of evidence to support the giants. I know of some archeological items that were discovered similar to Goliath's spear, but what of all the bones? We find dinosaur bones en masse, but where are these 10-15 footers?? |
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Rapha
Nov 16, 2018 13:17:17 GMT -6
Post by Gary on Nov 16, 2018 13:17:17 GMT -6
Yes, I tend to agree with you. I think Gen. 6:7, 17, and 23 seem pretty categorical - all life died that was upon the earth (land). That would seem to include Nephilim. I lean towards an intermingling happening again after the Flood.
As for bones - I suspect it's probably the same reason we don't find many bones of humans from the pre-Flood world. Humans were largely able to escape the lower levels of sedimentary layering that covered dinosaurs, reptiles, fish, etc. Nephilim (whether giants or not), were, I imagine, a very small subset of the population.
I do think it's interesting that ancient giant myths are nearly as widespread as the ancient flood myths. Most ancient cultures had them.
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Post by stormyknight on Nov 16, 2018 16:07:44 GMT -6
Only the bones of creatures that got buried by sediment get fossilized for us to find today. Any that were able to swim for a time or fled to higher ground until they couldn't would have died and settled to the ocean floor where they would have disintegrated, very much like those who went down with the Titanic. That deep of water, very much deeper than the two miles at which the Titanic rests, would have crushed bones to dust.
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Post by mike on Nov 16, 2018 16:10:18 GMT -6
I'm certain there are some giant bones. Since scripture tells us they existed, there has to evidence of this. However I do also understand that it is very possible that the pre-flood population was likely 100,000 to a few million people in total. Nephilim would have had to been a small representation of that, so I'd concur Gary.
Here is a video I found about some of the archeology.
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Rapha
Nov 19, 2018 16:14:05 GMT -6
Post by kjs on Nov 19, 2018 16:14:05 GMT -6
I am no expert and the following IS NOT my research….
(Research done by Rob Skiba) – is he correct, I have no clue but I do think it is plausible…..
Noah’s Sons
Japheth (line had some Giants) Shem (Line HAD NO Giants within it) HAM (had several Giants recorded within it) (notable Ham’s Son Canaan – this line produced the Amorites (which had several Giants) Ham’s Son Mitzriam had at least one Giant and produced Philistines Ham’s Son Put – unsure about this line Ham’s Son Cush – had at least one Giant within this Line Now Rob’s theory basically believes that Noah and His Son’s were “PURE” and had not corrupt DNA from the Angle incursion … However, the wives of the Son’s did have some tainted DNA …. It is because of that “Taint” – that the Giants (Nephilim) were able to “return”…… Again, I think Rob’s theory has a plausible factor – but I have done no research to Prove or disapprove it…. BUT I do Agree with the general theory about Genesis 6
That when it says (Gen. 6:9) “perfect in his generations”
It is talking about Noah’s family DNA is without taint…… |
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