Post by barbiosheepgirl on Oct 5, 2018 17:27:37 GMT -6
So it is interesting to me in the discussion of this term "grafting". Bear with me natalie because I am stating this for those to see my thinking, not to say you are incorrect or for me to persuade you. This is not about being right or wrong this is me trying to show something that is really cool spiritually.
Grafting in itself is a metaphor to me, but for a very distinct reason. the gentile was not given the oracles of God to demonstrate the Law prior to Christ's new covenant, right? there was also the Promise of the Messiah thru this root of David...just because modern day Israel does not believe this, does not make them still capable of bringing in the messiah. they can't anymore, because He came already... the grafting metaphor to me is the depiction of how any non-jew can be part of this Tree spiritually in this present age..
stating it again, by what was shown thru the laws of God He has an explanation of how a gentile can also partake of the promise of Christ and this is by this "grafting" metaphor into this Tree... this tree was established/ grown from the root of David if we stick with the tree metaphor. It has never been just about geneology...there was always a demonstration of Faith prior to the Cross. The OT stories are filled with these parallels of the Spiritual struggle of man's flesh to be obedient/repentant/faithful to God. And so God promises a Way that will Atone forever this debacle that began in the Garden of Eden.
We see this in John:
10He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
and in more of John the baptist account from Matt:
7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8“Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance; 9and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham for our father’; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham. 10“The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
a grafted branch becomes part of this Tree, right? It can bear fruit or not and this is especially true of the physical propagation of apple trees. A graft becomes part of the original. But the original branches of this tree the branch from the tribe of Judah namely, no longer were bearing fruit and disbelief has them pruned off... any branch that is cut off does not still live apart from this Tree... thus that ends it for that specific branch.
Where do we see in scripture where the Messiah is to still come thru Judah AFTER the New Covenant? I have always wanted to ask this and keep forgetting. All thru Isaiah we see the Promise of Messiah where we can pinpoint thru key words that Christ would come from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, and a physical city Bethleham, but he would be a Nazarene, and that he would be from the line of David, and Matthew and Luke give us the geneology to prove this, and of course we know there is more prophecy regarding the 1st coming.,
This to me is the picture of the Tree of Christ where those who did not have Faith were cut off from it 40 years after the Cross event. This grafting and pruning are specific metaphors for this "picture" of God's ways and means. Some were part of the original tree and believed and bore fruit. Peter, James, etc... but the tribe(judah) who were entrusted to bring in the messiah the King, failed to lead other the other tribes and the world on this, hence the physical temple was allowed to be destroyed and those "chosen" people, Christ's own, were dispersed.
But we see so many depictions of how God handled the people of Israel (His children from the promise given to Abraham. not Abram... abram was given a new name...) and this is where I see the exact same Spiritual depiction in the children of God thru Christ, of which we are given a new name when we come to Faith The Christ-follower walk is depicted in the person Israel (Jacob and his NEW NAME) and many other places in the OT,,,but we also see something very specific from Paul's teachings namely, that it is (and has been) all about faith.
Faith, counted as righteous, the faithful heart within a man could followed God, hear God, rely on God. We have two sons who show us two basic principles of man: Walking by flesh, Ishmael, walking by faith, Isaac..it is stuff like this that to me so magnify God's intricate, intimate relationship He longs for with mankind.
But we still have the jew who is walking outwardly in the flesh, our modern day Israel for sure. But even moreso those who are not walking by faith but walking by something else yet take the name Christian. These two groups of people act the same way in a sense. Doing things to look good to the world, do sacrifices for atonement etc, all these works that mean nothing on their own merit. I came out of a church or two where it was all about doing things to receive forgiveness..etc...even the leaders of those churches not trusting the Holy Spirit. lacking the faith in the Holy Spirit to the point of not teaching about Him, our very Helper, Who guides us, protects us, communicates to us. This parallels God leading Moses, Noah, Jacob, Abraham,,,
Back to grafting...I see the importance of Judah being cut off because God will demonstrate in the end that it is NOT because they have Abraham as their father, but a change of mind to a faith in the Covenant set before them 2000 years ago...so cut off branches they are, and how do they become part of the Tree again? They themselves have to be Born Again, receive the Seed of Truth and be re-planted in good soils, watered and tilled. Unless there is scripture to state otherwise, shouldn't they now require a grafting into the Tree of Life! I dont see any other way that anyone, modern day jew or pagan or the faithless can have access to this Tree apart from Faith in Christ. Am I wrong on this? There are not two ways to Christ, no?
Grafting in itself is a metaphor to me, but for a very distinct reason. the gentile was not given the oracles of God to demonstrate the Law prior to Christ's new covenant, right? there was also the Promise of the Messiah thru this root of David...just because modern day Israel does not believe this, does not make them still capable of bringing in the messiah. they can't anymore, because He came already... the grafting metaphor to me is the depiction of how any non-jew can be part of this Tree spiritually in this present age..
stating it again, by what was shown thru the laws of God He has an explanation of how a gentile can also partake of the promise of Christ and this is by this "grafting" metaphor into this Tree... this tree was established/ grown from the root of David if we stick with the tree metaphor. It has never been just about geneology...there was always a demonstration of Faith prior to the Cross. The OT stories are filled with these parallels of the Spiritual struggle of man's flesh to be obedient/repentant/faithful to God. And so God promises a Way that will Atone forever this debacle that began in the Garden of Eden.
We see this in John:
10He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
and in more of John the baptist account from Matt:
7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8“Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance; 9and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham for our father’; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham. 10“The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
a grafted branch becomes part of this Tree, right? It can bear fruit or not and this is especially true of the physical propagation of apple trees. A graft becomes part of the original. But the original branches of this tree the branch from the tribe of Judah namely, no longer were bearing fruit and disbelief has them pruned off... any branch that is cut off does not still live apart from this Tree... thus that ends it for that specific branch.
Where do we see in scripture where the Messiah is to still come thru Judah AFTER the New Covenant? I have always wanted to ask this and keep forgetting. All thru Isaiah we see the Promise of Messiah where we can pinpoint thru key words that Christ would come from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, and a physical city Bethleham, but he would be a Nazarene, and that he would be from the line of David, and Matthew and Luke give us the geneology to prove this, and of course we know there is more prophecy regarding the 1st coming.,
This to me is the picture of the Tree of Christ where those who did not have Faith were cut off from it 40 years after the Cross event. This grafting and pruning are specific metaphors for this "picture" of God's ways and means. Some were part of the original tree and believed and bore fruit. Peter, James, etc... but the tribe(judah) who were entrusted to bring in the messiah the King, failed to lead other the other tribes and the world on this, hence the physical temple was allowed to be destroyed and those "chosen" people, Christ's own, were dispersed.
But we see so many depictions of how God handled the people of Israel (His children from the promise given to Abraham. not Abram... abram was given a new name...) and this is where I see the exact same Spiritual depiction in the children of God thru Christ, of which we are given a new name when we come to Faith The Christ-follower walk is depicted in the person Israel (Jacob and his NEW NAME) and many other places in the OT,,,but we also see something very specific from Paul's teachings namely, that it is (and has been) all about faith.
Faith, counted as righteous, the faithful heart within a man could followed God, hear God, rely on God. We have two sons who show us two basic principles of man: Walking by flesh, Ishmael, walking by faith, Isaac..it is stuff like this that to me so magnify God's intricate, intimate relationship He longs for with mankind.
But we still have the jew who is walking outwardly in the flesh, our modern day Israel for sure. But even moreso those who are not walking by faith but walking by something else yet take the name Christian. These two groups of people act the same way in a sense. Doing things to look good to the world, do sacrifices for atonement etc, all these works that mean nothing on their own merit. I came out of a church or two where it was all about doing things to receive forgiveness..etc...even the leaders of those churches not trusting the Holy Spirit. lacking the faith in the Holy Spirit to the point of not teaching about Him, our very Helper, Who guides us, protects us, communicates to us. This parallels God leading Moses, Noah, Jacob, Abraham,,,
Back to grafting...I see the importance of Judah being cut off because God will demonstrate in the end that it is NOT because they have Abraham as their father, but a change of mind to a faith in the Covenant set before them 2000 years ago...so cut off branches they are, and how do they become part of the Tree again? They themselves have to be Born Again, receive the Seed of Truth and be re-planted in good soils, watered and tilled. Unless there is scripture to state otherwise, shouldn't they now require a grafting into the Tree of Life! I dont see any other way that anyone, modern day jew or pagan or the faithless can have access to this Tree apart from Faith in Christ. Am I wrong on this? There are not two ways to Christ, no?
