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Post by kjs on Mar 30, 2018 13:50:37 GMT -6
Mike said this in the thread unsealed.boards.net/thread/1450/daniels-days-1260-1290-1335?page=2I felt this entire topic needs to explored more -- but it is off the main topic -- so decided to created another thread to discuss.... ========== Mar 30, 2018 13:44:50 GMT -4 mike said: barbiosheepgirl - I have been pondering your assessment since I read it last night. My thought was "study revelation apart from other scriptures and see what we get". During my pondering, (which sometimes gets wandering  ) I thought about this passage using the context you are suggesting: Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: ) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not. 24 For there shall arise FALSE Christs, and FALSE prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. I tried to contemplate Jesus referring to Daniel 9 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. and Daniel 12 11 And from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days. How difficult it is for me sometimes to put my thoughts into typed words...I am no bible scholar, nor claim to have any idea about how to properly discern the above contexts. I have ideas, I've been taught ideas, some will read this and say "its clear Mike, c'mon!" But in connection with what BSG is saying and what Stephan said about perspective I want to try to express something that has been in my mind for several weeks. UGH MIKE! Does anyone think the disciples knew what Jesus meant when He stated Matt 24:15 (and the rest of the chapter for that matter)? I don't think they did. Some feel this applies now, others feel this applied to 70AD. Perhaps others had been shown this or pieces of it by divine revelation whereby they penned some of the epistles or even Revelation, but they didn't have it all figured out. My thinking is that our adversary knows the Word better than any of us do or can until we are with Him! With the enemy knowing the Word, wouldn't it behoove the Father to conceal certain things not only from us but from the adversary? I mean anyone with a strategy doesn't tell the opposition about the strategy. Sure he knows the end of the story but I don't think he's fully in tune with how we arrive there. Our theories are no different than Satan's. Yup I just said that!...Think back 2000'ish years ago when our Lord became a man. If the enemy was able to decipher the prophetic scriptures and understand the timing/arrival of the savior the first time around would he have had a Herod murder more babies sooner? Maybe, but some will tell me "Yes Mike but GOD..." and I get it He is far superior and had/has a plan that will come to pass. We see the efforts the adversary took and he wasn't successful for lack of effort, just didn't have the full story. He may have even known a "virgin" was to bare the Son, perhaps not! Think Terminator! Wouldn't satan have taken to opportunity to eliminate the virgin mother had he had the full scope of the plan? With that I fully enjoy trying to figure this out and studying with you all. You have blessed me and encouraged me to want to know Him more, more deeply, more intimately, more closely. However our speculating is just that, and until we are at the doorstep we just don't know the plan in full. Until that moment, share His love with as many as possible, not just verbally but in deed! What better weekend than Passover to introduce and/or reinforce what its all about! |
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Post by kjs on Mar 30, 2018 14:12:23 GMT -6
Many, many moons ago ... back when I was young and trying to understand the activities occurring in the NT; and how the disciples just were not getting it.... ended up having several Sunday School lessons with a very wise Christian woman.
As I said this happen very long ago and I do not have perfect recall ... so this is simply a summary of what I do remember....
Basically from the time of David (King David) the Jewish people were promised that better King was coming that would essentially rule the world with a rod of Iron. His reign would be long and would bless all the nations of the world.
There was other prophecies that mentioned a suffering servant would also be coming on the scene and this servant would HEAL the Jewish people / world... neither of these prophesied individuals were detail enough to -- say this is HE -- when they arrived on the scene.
When Jesus arrived on the scene, right after the Jews became a satellite colony for Rome (ruled by Herold) ... the Jewish people really wanted that coming Prince -- that would rule the entire world.
So when Jesus spoke of the Kingdom of God -- the people who heard him -- were thinking -- of this new Kingdom of the Jews and how Jesus was going to be setting this Kingdom up. Like now -- within a few short years. Even the disciples were originally thinking this -- case and point when the brothers were trying to ensure their placement in Jesus Kingdom.
SO when Jesus was crucified, their hopes and dreams of the future kingdom were dashed ....
Even after He was raised, they hoped but were confused how it could be done.....
It took the Apostle Paul to come along (with His direct revelation) -- to understand that the HEALING had to take place first ....
before the ruling would take place.....
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Post by kjs on Mar 30, 2018 14:23:21 GMT -6
So Satan is wiser than us and more clever than us.... he probably even has perfect recall ......
so he could probably quote the entire Holy scriptures verbatim....
But he cannot "see into the future" and He has no idea about God's overall plan.....
I think that is partly by design --- so I doubt we will ever have a clear cut prediction that such and such will happen this coming Sunday at 12pm eastern time.....
But when the rapture DOES HAPPEN (and it will) .......
everyone, including Satan -- will -- go -- yep that is right -- right there it said "hdhhfhohdjdfhiohdoh" and sure enough "hdhhfhohdjdfhiohdoh" has come to pass......
Just like everyone can now go back and see Isaiah 53 -- speaks about Jesus being the suffering servant .......
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Post by mike on Mar 31, 2018 6:11:55 GMT -6
Totally my point KJ, we can look back at prophecy and see fulfillment but we won't figure this out now matter what day counts we measure, where the stars align, who passes away, what happens in the middle East but we know we are at the door brother!
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Post by disciple4life on Apr 2, 2018 4:49:16 GMT -6
So Satan is wiser than us and more clever than us.... he probably even has perfect recall ...... so he could probably quote the entire Holy scriptures verbatim.... But he cannot "see into the future" and He has no idea about God's overall plan..... I think that is partly by design --- so I doubt we will ever have a clear cut prediction that such and such will happen this coming Sunday at 12pm eastern time..... But when the rapture DOES HAPPEN (and it will) ....... everyone, including Satan -- will -- go -- yep that is right -- right there it said "hdhhfhohdjdfhiohdoh" and sure enough "hdhhfhohdjdfhiohdoh" has come to pass...... Just like everyone can now go back and see Isaiah 53 -- speaks about Jesus being the suffering servant ....... Absolutely, kjs and mike. You both have said it so well. I think we can understand a lot of clues - that sadly- most Christians ignore- don't take the time to study, too preoccupied with super-bowl, kids' soccer, ballet, stuff of life, or they simply don't think it's important. *** I'm not saying or implying any of these things are evil, but most Christians have simply bought into the line - "No one knows the day or hour." ho hum.
With that said, I think that God has chosen to reveal many many things to those who are watching, and we study and compare theories with different end-times teachers and discuss - and in the process we refine our own arguments.
I am deeply convinced that as a result of the Blood Moons / and/or Great eclipse and 70th Anniversary of Israel, thousands of Christians are starting to wake up and see the connection/ significance of Jewish culture. - We simply miss / lose many things because of not understanding our history and how Jews understand. How many millions of Christians have read over and over "that Jesus was at the feast of dedication" and it means nothing - but the word in the scripture is Hanukkah, etc, etc. Seeing the striking parallels between the Hebrew wedding practices and eschatology -- understanding there are 4 distinct names and types of trumpet blasts and a specific name for the "last trumpet." etc etc.
Just look how we can clearly see a 'convergence of signs' and considering that for us - those who are watching - we can clearly see how the Alliance of Turkey, Iran and Russia is a direct fulfillment of prophecy, and that regardless of whether people love Trump or think he's the AC - as Gary said, the declaration of the USA / Trump of Jerusalem as the official capital and the decision to move the Embassy has huge prophetic implications. You would practically have to be in a coma to not see this significance.
Same with the Temple Coin - I know some people hate it and see it as 'supporting the evil sacrifices' etc, but it means we are one huge step closer to "all these things coming to pass." It's naïve to think any one or any amount of money, or any army can stop or hinder God's timetable.
I do believe that there are some things that will just be kept a mystery, but there will be a "water breaking" moment, and for all those watching - it will be very very clear. Like the Noah/ great flood event. Warning, - maybe a few days/ week, and then the damn breaks.
Maranatha.
Disciple4life.
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Post by gkp on Apr 2, 2018 9:01:08 GMT -6
disciple4life Thank you for your latest post. It was a blessing to wake up to those good edifying words this morning! Have a wonderful day!
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Post by mike on Apr 2, 2018 9:27:44 GMT -6
D4L, even though we see the signs all around, I will admit that sometimes it is hard to remain (lazer) focused. There are just so many distractions minute to minute, hour to hour, day to day that for me its hard to remind myself of the immense reality and gravity that Jesus is standing at the door and any moment will return for us (who believe)! I do not fault our brothers & sisters but remind myself that I am one who plays a very small part in this as one who was/is called to this task of watching and sounding the alarm.
thank you for your words today my friend!
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neural
Truth Seeker
Posts: 113
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Post by neural on Apr 2, 2018 11:56:41 GMT -6
So Satan is wiser than us and more clever than us.... he probably even has perfect recall ...... so he could probably quote the entire Holy scriptures verbatim.... But he cannot "see into the future" and He has no idea about God's overall plan..... I'm really struggling with some things right now, so I have to preface my question here and say that this is not accusatory or anything, I'm just curious as it is something that would settle some ...well...anxiety in my mind. Do we know Biblically that satan is not privy to the future, and to what extent? Does he look at Daniel's prophecies and all the weeks, days, years, numbers and look for the Excedrin like we do? |
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Post by disciple4life on Apr 2, 2018 12:26:08 GMT -6
So Satan is wiser than us and more clever than us.... he probably even has perfect recall ...... so he could probably quote the entire Holy scriptures verbatim.... But he cannot "see into the future" and He has no idea about God's overall plan..... I'm really struggling with some things right now, so I have to preface my question here and say that this is not accusatory or anything, I'm just curious as it is something that would settle some ...well...anxiety in my mind. Do we know Biblically that satan is not privy to the future, and to what extent? Does he look at Daniel's prophecies and all the weeks, days, years, numbers and look for the Excedrin like we do? Hello neural, I'm not pretending to speak for KJS, just chiming in. heheh. Hope it will be encouraging. My two cents and 1.98 will get you a cheap cup of coffee. ;-)
Satan is a fallen angel/ a created being, and is thus not omnipotent, or omniscient. According to scripture, only God is all-knowing, knows our thoughts and knows the future. He was here when Christ died, and knows the exact day, hour, month and year Christ was born, and whether it was a Feast day, as well as the hour, day and month of when Christ died, and whether that was a Wednesday, and which calendar the disciples used for their Passover /last supper, and the total lunar eclipse that happened in WWII, and all the dates in history. Does he have perfect recall ?? maybe not, but he doesn't need to really. He has an army of imps who were there and could have recorded every significant event in history. He knows scripture - and even twisted it when he tempted Christ in the wilderness. However, he does not have the Holy Spirit, and thus the gift of wisdom or discernment, nor can he create anything. He only copies and distorts and perverts what God created. He may have much more insight into certain passages, because he was there for all the history since the garden of Eden, but some things regarding the end-times are just as much a mystery to him. This is why it makes sense that there will be a 'water breaking' event. Scripture says the last days will be like the days of Noah, and Lot. These two have virtually nothing in common, other than sin - [thousands of cities through time have been wicked] and a warning to those righteous. When we reconcile this with Paul's words, we know he said that for us watching - the return of Christ will not be a surprise like a thief in the night. Christ said the "foolish virgins/bridesmaids did not know the hour." ;-) For us who are watching scripture, and Israel and the Feasts and the signs in the heavens, we will not be caught by surprise. Not sure what this huge trigger event will be- whether a massive [I mean ginormous earthquake, or nuclear missile strike or massive volcano eruption - sky black, or EMP, but so many end-times experts agree that we are in birth pains. No other prophecy has yet to be fulfilled for the rapture to take place. This was categorically not the case 3 yrs ago.
Maranatha
Disciple4life
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Post by mike on Apr 2, 2018 12:48:58 GMT -6
neural - I'll throw my $0.02 in as I read your post the following came to mind 2Cor 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.I may be taking it a bit out of context as the area is about forgiveness, but I think application could work here. His tricks are all the same. We're warned of them in Proverbs (IMO). The sinful nature is where the enemy attacks. 1John 2:26 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.1Cor 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as [were] some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. <<= PRIDE>> 13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it]. OK back to the point - since Satan isnt really that creative, we should be aware how he attacks and where. Yet when I take my eyes off Him (which is far more than I would ever hope) these 'tricks' begin to get me in the battleground (mind). For God to allow Satan to have foresight would put him on a plane where God is. While I dont know of a specific scripture indicating specifically whether angels have this knowledge or dont, I dont believe God would put them ahead of us in that area. They have the ability to be in the spirit at all times and therefore see the spiritual as we do not (always). However one thing I do know is neither angels nor demons understand WHY?! Sometimes I really dont either. I really am just filthy rags (Isa 64:6) yet He did it for me, for us. 1 Pet 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see [him] not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 Receiving the end of your faith, [even] the salvation of [your] souls.10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace [that should come] unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
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Post by mike on Apr 2, 2018 12:51:19 GMT -6
I HOPE SO!!!
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Post by mike on Apr 2, 2018 13:18:56 GMT -6
neural between me and D4L you got about $0.04 maybe KJS will throw in some more cash and you can get that bad of coffee with D4L
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Post by kjs on Apr 2, 2018 15:13:59 GMT -6
neural between me and D4L you got about $0.04 maybe KJS will throw in some more cash and you can get that bad of coffee with D4L Y'all already said -- pretty much what I would have said -- but here is my .02 helpings worth ..... lol Fact: We know for certain Satan knew when Jesus was first here (after all Satan tempted him).... Fact: We know for certain that Judas was influenced by Satan to betray Jesus to the authorities (cause scripture says so).... So we can be 99% confident that Satan had a hand in influencing people of that time to sentence Jesus to death..... So we can be 99% sure that Satan had no idea about the resurrection of Jesus or what it would mean for BELIEVERS .... For if Satan KNEW in advance that the resurrection of Jesus was going to redeem Human-Kind ..... Then you can bet dollars to donuts that Satan would have done everything in his power to PREVENT the death of Jesus.... I kind of think of it as God's miraculous CHECK-MATE MOVE!!!!!I can see it now (kind of a sneak peek) - at the Cross at the moment of death -- Satan was dancing around giggling with glee shouting to the world .... CHECK --- I CHECKED GOD!
Possibly even God the Father looked shocked / gloomy / sad at that moment ......
Three Days and Three Nights later ......
KA...BOOM the world rattles with the vibrations of God's voice .... as He whispers "Check-Mate"
As He watches His one and only son --- Jesus Christ raises to LIFE again.......... |
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Post by sog on Apr 2, 2018 15:28:47 GMT -6
1Cor 10:13
13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it]. Love this verse. Helped me through some rough times. Now, I look to it all the time. |
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neural
Truth Seeker
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Post by neural on Apr 2, 2018 15:29:40 GMT -6
Ok. Good points. I think a lot of my concern has more to do with the devil's ability to learn and observe. For example, I'm pretty sure the devil has a few thousand years more experience than Sun Tzu, so one can assume that satan knows "The Art of War" inside out and backwards, including any flaws that may exist therein.
I also will admit that I simply assume that the hidden-from-public individuals who are in power globally also are basically completely controlled by satan. The devil commands, and they trip over themselves to follow.
I also must clarify that I didn't mean to imply any sort of omniscience on the part of the devil, but the main curiosity for me was whether or not the devil knows the meaning of all the prophecies that we are so confused by.
If you are all correct there, it is comforting to know that there is a little more to the push and pull of this war than just the devil railroading the entire thing until God says "ok, enough". Perhaps Donald Trump being elected president really threw a wrench in the devil's gears (for example).
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) I thought about this passage using the context you are suggesting:
