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Post by fitz on Apr 7, 2018 16:55:07 GMT -6
Thank you for the thoughtful replies.
So your rapture timing would seem to be Mid-Trib or Pre-Wrath?
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Post by venge on Apr 7, 2018 16:55:33 GMT -6
no txt
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Post by venge on Apr 7, 2018 17:03:54 GMT -6
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Post by mike on Apr 7, 2018 20:18:34 GMT -6
Thank you for that and yes it is well supported and more importantly (to me) make sense and isn't stretching anything specifically.
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Post by witness1 on Apr 9, 2018 7:32:52 GMT -6
I should add this so you can see the link between the Antichrist and the False prophet 2 Thessalonians 2:3-10 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. The Antichrist here does powers. After the work of Satan. He does signs and wonders. Then Revelation 13 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. Both have power and signs and wonders. Both gets their power from no other then Satan. How many people does Satan give power to? They are the same person. Yes! This is one of the reasons I thought the false prophet must be the son of perdition. I'm in complete agreement! Thank you for explaining the beast system and the land/sea thing. I haven't seen anyone reconcile the beasts of Daniel to the beasts of Revelation until now. What do you make of the fact that the false prophet has 2 horns? What do you think those represent? |
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Post by sog on Apr 9, 2018 8:27:20 GMT -6
Does anyone know with 100% certainty that the Pope is saved and going to heaven? Is anyone 100% sure I’m saved and going to heaven? No? Why? Because only the Father knows. God told us we will have a good idea by our fruits, but not 100% knowledge. Only God holds that power. Is it possible to say one thing publicly, but believe in your heart another? Sure, man is deceitful by sinful nature. You can lie to man, but not to God. Can man fool many time and time again in order to the reach the highest levels of power and respect? Lol, has it not happened throughout history? I believe the Pope is such a man. By his fruits and words. 100% sure ? No. Again, only God holds that power. Only time will tell. www.davidjeremiah.org/site/articles/bible-say-about-false-prophet-in-revelation.aspxI’m not a bible scholar, but Dr Jeremiah is. He believes there is a separate Antichrist and False Prophet. That’s good enough for me. I’ve been through a few of his bible studies. I trust Dr. J Not trying to change topic, but I strongly disagree with the sentence I highlighted in the quote above!!! Scripture tells us .... 1 John 5:13 I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. POINT is we CANNOT know another person's mind/heart/thinking and therefore are unable to say that person is saved or not..... BUT we our-selfs do indeed know -- if we are or are not SAVED..... and scripture confirm that knowledge. If the highlighted portion of the quote says -- that an individual cannot know -- then that is incorrect..... If the highlighted portion of the quote refers back to sog -- then, yes we readers of the forum cannot know for 100% certainly. , my apologies if that was not clear enough. I was trying to make an illustrative point that no one can know what is in another person's heart. Only God has that power. I should have inserted the word "here" in between so that it would have read "Is anyone here 100% sure...". I am fully confident that I'm going to heaven. Sorry if that was confusing. |
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Post by witness1 on Apr 9, 2018 9:08:31 GMT -6
fitz and others, My friends, at the risk of beating a dead horse, which you will hopefully forgive me for, I want to point something out. And I do this because, as God adds to our number here and new ideas are presented, they fit more and more into the framework of the end that I am seeing and leaves me more convinced that I may be onto something. I do not think that I have all the answers, and who knows whether my interpretation of Daniel 9:27 is 100% right or not. But here is what I do know: it is the cause of all of our disagreements. venge feels certain about these beast kingdoms after he has put more hours than any of us into understanding it, and I think he has laid out a pretty convincing argument. But many of us cannot readily accept it because we think the antichrist has to be a political figure and not a religious one. We think the antichrist is going to "come in peace" and make a peace treaty and deceive the Jews. So here I am saying yet again that the entire reason we think this is because of our interpretation on what some believe to be the most difficult prophecy in the Bible... the one that drove Isaac Newton crazy. The one with the "he" and no mention of peace. And we throw out everything that doesn't fit into our framework that is based on a single verse in the Bible, and we politely and lovingly "agree to disagree" because we don't see how we can all be right. venge sees the beast kingdoms the way he sees them, and that leads him to conclude that there must not be a pre-trib rapture because he is sure about the beast kingdoms and the false prophet. fitz is sure there is a pre-trib rapture, and that leads him to conclude that the beast must be a political figure. I think we will be here for awhile, and I think God will allow us to figure this out and unite His bride before we meet Him. Instead of "agreeing to disagree", let's figure out how everyone can be right. People are rightly dividing scripture... they are just rightly dividing different portions of scripture that don't reconcile with one another at first glance. But I think it is completely possible to be pre-trib and see the beast kingdoms and the false prophet as presented here. We just need to put our heads together on Daniel 9:27 
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Post by venge on Apr 9, 2018 9:51:32 GMT -6
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Post by witness1 on Apr 9, 2018 10:18:06 GMT -6
I like it. That does make sense that it could denote aggression. As we keep looking at this, it may be something to keep in the back of our minds though in case another meaning should emerge.
"Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon."
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Post by venge on Apr 9, 2018 11:35:27 GMT -6
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Post by venge on Apr 9, 2018 11:37:56 GMT -6
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Post by venge on Apr 9, 2018 11:48:03 GMT -6
no txt
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 12:07:02 GMT -6
..... The mouth of the beast is the AC that speaks for the beast empire. Commanding them in religious matters as a false prophet and guiding them towards their belief this is what their god wants.
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.Let's assume, the AC is the false prophet. What then is the beast, if both (beast and false prophet) are cast alive into the lake of fire according to the scripture above? (Maybe I have missed a yet given explanation on this?) |
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Post by venge on Apr 9, 2018 13:19:25 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 13:31:47 GMT -6
Rev 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.Let's assume, the AC is the false prophet. What then is the beast, if both (beast and false prophet) are cast alive into the lake of fire according to the scripture above? (Maybe I have missed a yet given explanation on this?) No problem! It’s on page 2 about a quarter down. Titled The Beast in bold font. It will explain your question Don't read the whole stuff, but from what I see you are assuming the beast is not a person but a system or an empire. How do you reconcile this with the above mentioned scripture in Rev....? How can such a beast be cast into a lake of fire? Especially when the false prophet is also cast into the same lake? And the devil is going to join the two later... This does not make sense to me. |
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