Post by witness1 on Feb 28, 2018 8:02:38 GMT -6
In the spirit of being respectful to not de-rail thread topics, I've decided to move this post to a new thread and delete it from the Temple in Heaven Opening thread. I also feel that it may be an encouraging message to those like myself who have been wondering if "God has this figured out because this tribulation sounds awful". I don't want this to be lost in another thread people may not be following since I think it could be encouraging. I also would appreciate some feedback on this idea. I do feel encouraged about it though because last night my husband said, "Wow. That's cool" when I told him about it. Every night he asks for an update of what I've studied that day, and usually his response is to poke theological holes in my thoughts and play devil's advocate, recalling various topics from his seminary days. This is the only thing I've said to him that didn't have any pushback 
So without further ado, let's start in Revelation 1:3. He says “blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy”. And that is NOT what I thought the first time I read Revelation! “Lord, this is terrible! I don’t want to read this!” But everyone you see in heaven is praising God for His great and amazing deeds... there must be mercy in this book that is not apparent at first glance! And isn't that God's true character anyway? To do immeasurably more than we ask or imagine? So here’s what I think: the multitude that appears in heaven in Revelation 7:9-17 are the 1/3 of mankind killed by the 4 angels in chapter 9:13-19- the 6th trumpet. This is God's mercy to save them from the wrath of Satan and the consequences of not taking the mark of the beast. Let me explain why I see this.
Then the sixth angel blew his trumpet, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar before God, saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.” So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour, the day, the month, and the year, were released to kill a third of mankind. The number of mounted troops was twice ten thousand times ten thousand; I heard their number. And this is how I saw the horses in my vision and those who rode them: they wore breastplates the color of fire and of sapphire and of sulfur, and the heads of the horses were like lions’ heads, and fire and smoke and sulfur came out of their mouths. By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed, by the fire and smoke and sulfur coming out of their mouths. For the power of the horses is in their mouths and in their tails, for their tails are like serpents with heads, and by means of them they wound.
The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk, nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts. Rev 9:13-19
Observations from this passage:
1) These 4 angels had been prepared for the hour, the day, the month, and the year to kill 1/3 of mankind.
2) Somehow these 4 angels are an army of 200,000,000 (they have a lot of people to kill!)
3) Fire and smoke and sulfur come from their mouths
4) A third of mankind was killed by the fire and smoke and sulfur coming out of their mouths
5) They have power in their mouths and in their tails, and they can wound with their tails which are like serpents with heads.
6) THE REST OF MANKIND WHO WAS NOT KILLED DID NOT REPENT ie there was not a soul alive who worshiped God >>> if there was anyone who worshiped God on earth, they are now dead.
First, note that these have been prepared for a certain time. I don't see Satan having that foresight and power to accomplish such a task if this is his army. Satan's army in the Tribulation is always ALLOWED to come up from the pit or from the abyss. He never releases his own army - they are released by God's appointed angels - and they always come from below. These angles have been bound at the river of Euphrates.
Did y'all see that about the mouths and tails?!?! The tails are scary and can wound, but that isn't what was used here. What was used to kill was NOT their tails but their mouths! Notice what the passage doesn't say: it doesn't say these people were tortured like the people tortured by the scorpion TAILS in the previous verses. I think this section of angels is in direct contrast to the section about the 5 months of torture from these stinging tails. I may make a chart about the differences, but for now we see that they have very different appearances, they come from different places, one tortures but the other kills, one uses it's tail and the other uses it's mouth, and one has the king over them as Apollyon and the other does not.
I believe these angels are like the angel of death that killed the firstborns in Egypt, which God sent to show His power over the gods of Egypt (their highest god was the sun god, who gave blessing through the firstborn- God showed His power over this sun god by killing the firstborn).
I believe there is only one rapture, but many people have said they see multiple raptures in Revelation because multiple groups keep appearing in heaven. I believe strongly that the 24 elders are the complete group of the church (which those who resurrected with Jesus are included in!) so this group is new. Is it possible that the huge multitude in chapter 7:9-17 are those whom the Lord graciously sent angels to (kindly, gently) kill? Does he do this to again show his power over false gods (the beast) like He did in Egypt? Let's remember that He tells us the end from the beginning.
After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God forever and ever! Amen.”
Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, “Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?” I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
“Therefore they are before the throne of God,
and serve him day and night in his temple;
and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence.
They shall hunger no more, neither thirst anymore;
the sun shall not strike them,
nor any scorching heat.
For the Lamb in the midst of the throne will be their shepherd,
and he will guide them to springs of living water,
and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.” Rev 7:9-17
Observations from this passage:
1) This group has come out of the great tribulation. It sounds like they have suffered hunger, thirst, and scorching heat, which sadly many of our brothers and sisters around the world can identify with, but we do not. This doesn't sound like us.
2) This group causes the angels to fall on their faces in worship of God, suggesting to me that it is because He has done something awesome and unexpected.
3) This group will serve God day and night in His temple. This is a very different description from the 24 elders who are a kingdom and priests to our God (Rev 5:10). We, the church, belong in the group with the elders who are a kingdom of priests, and we will rule and reign with Christ. It seems to me that God, in His mercy, allows this group to come to Him out of the tribulation as well, but they are not given the privilege of priesthood- only servants. Yet it is better to be a doorkeeper in the house of the Lord than to dwell in the tents of the wicked!
Also, after we see the 144,000 standing on Mount Zion with the Lamb in Chapter 14, three Angels fly overhead. The first proclaims the Gospel to every nation and tribe and language and people. The second announces that Babylon the great has fallen, and the third warns everyone not to receive the mark of the beast. We then see this clue:
And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!’” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them.” Rev 14:13
The multitude appears in heaven in chapter 7 right after the sealing of the 144,000, and here we see this proclamation that those who die in the Lord will be blessed right after we see a glimpse of these 144,000 with the Lamb. I really think this multitude of servants in heaven are those whom the Lord blesses by killing with His appointed angels!
Notice also that these angels kill 1/3 of mankind. One third is the Lord's part. We have seen that there are 3 parts of people now: Israel, Gentiles, and the Church. The third part of the church is about to be taken, and 2/3 will be left: Israel and the Gentiles. It makes sense to me that God will again take 1/3 of people unto Himself when they are killed by the angels. The multitude has the Lamb as their shepherd (Rev 7:17), which is not said about the elders. The 1/3 of mankind was killed by fire from the mouths of the angels, and we see this scripture in Zechariah talking about the shepherd and 1/3 being put into the fire while 2/3 are cut off and perish:
“Awake, O sword, against my shepherd,
against the man who stands next to me,”
declares the LORD of hosts.
“Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered;
I will turn my hand against the little ones.
In the whole land, declares the LORD,
two thirds shall be cut off and perish,
and one third shall be left alive.
And I will put this third into the fire,
and refine them as one refines silver,
and test them as gold is tested.
They will call upon my name,
and I will answer them.
I will say, ‘They are my people’;
and they will say, ‘The LORD is my God.’”
-Zechariah 13:7-9
If this is true, praise God for His mercy! What do you think?
So without further ado, let's start in Revelation 1:3. He says “blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy”. And that is NOT what I thought the first time I read Revelation! “Lord, this is terrible! I don’t want to read this!” But everyone you see in heaven is praising God for His great and amazing deeds... there must be mercy in this book that is not apparent at first glance! And isn't that God's true character anyway? To do immeasurably more than we ask or imagine? So here’s what I think: the multitude that appears in heaven in Revelation 7:9-17 are the 1/3 of mankind killed by the 4 angels in chapter 9:13-19- the 6th trumpet. This is God's mercy to save them from the wrath of Satan and the consequences of not taking the mark of the beast. Let me explain why I see this.
Then the sixth angel blew his trumpet, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar before God, saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.” So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour, the day, the month, and the year, were released to kill a third of mankind. The number of mounted troops was twice ten thousand times ten thousand; I heard their number. And this is how I saw the horses in my vision and those who rode them: they wore breastplates the color of fire and of sapphire and of sulfur, and the heads of the horses were like lions’ heads, and fire and smoke and sulfur came out of their mouths. By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed, by the fire and smoke and sulfur coming out of their mouths. For the power of the horses is in their mouths and in their tails, for their tails are like serpents with heads, and by means of them they wound.
The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk, nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts. Rev 9:13-19
Observations from this passage:
1) These 4 angels had been prepared for the hour, the day, the month, and the year to kill 1/3 of mankind.
2) Somehow these 4 angels are an army of 200,000,000 (they have a lot of people to kill!)
3) Fire and smoke and sulfur come from their mouths
4) A third of mankind was killed by the fire and smoke and sulfur coming out of their mouths
5) They have power in their mouths and in their tails, and they can wound with their tails which are like serpents with heads.
6) THE REST OF MANKIND WHO WAS NOT KILLED DID NOT REPENT ie there was not a soul alive who worshiped God >>> if there was anyone who worshiped God on earth, they are now dead.
First, note that these have been prepared for a certain time. I don't see Satan having that foresight and power to accomplish such a task if this is his army. Satan's army in the Tribulation is always ALLOWED to come up from the pit or from the abyss. He never releases his own army - they are released by God's appointed angels - and they always come from below. These angles have been bound at the river of Euphrates.
Did y'all see that about the mouths and tails?!?! The tails are scary and can wound, but that isn't what was used here. What was used to kill was NOT their tails but their mouths! Notice what the passage doesn't say: it doesn't say these people were tortured like the people tortured by the scorpion TAILS in the previous verses. I think this section of angels is in direct contrast to the section about the 5 months of torture from these stinging tails. I may make a chart about the differences, but for now we see that they have very different appearances, they come from different places, one tortures but the other kills, one uses it's tail and the other uses it's mouth, and one has the king over them as Apollyon and the other does not.
I believe these angels are like the angel of death that killed the firstborns in Egypt, which God sent to show His power over the gods of Egypt (their highest god was the sun god, who gave blessing through the firstborn- God showed His power over this sun god by killing the firstborn).
I believe there is only one rapture, but many people have said they see multiple raptures in Revelation because multiple groups keep appearing in heaven. I believe strongly that the 24 elders are the complete group of the church (which those who resurrected with Jesus are included in!) so this group is new. Is it possible that the huge multitude in chapter 7:9-17 are those whom the Lord graciously sent angels to (kindly, gently) kill? Does he do this to again show his power over false gods (the beast) like He did in Egypt? Let's remember that He tells us the end from the beginning.
After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God forever and ever! Amen.”
Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, “Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?” I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
“Therefore they are before the throne of God,
and serve him day and night in his temple;
and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence.
They shall hunger no more, neither thirst anymore;
the sun shall not strike them,
nor any scorching heat.
For the Lamb in the midst of the throne will be their shepherd,
and he will guide them to springs of living water,
and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.” Rev 7:9-17
Observations from this passage:
1) This group has come out of the great tribulation. It sounds like they have suffered hunger, thirst, and scorching heat, which sadly many of our brothers and sisters around the world can identify with, but we do not. This doesn't sound like us.
2) This group causes the angels to fall on their faces in worship of God, suggesting to me that it is because He has done something awesome and unexpected.
3) This group will serve God day and night in His temple. This is a very different description from the 24 elders who are a kingdom and priests to our God (Rev 5:10). We, the church, belong in the group with the elders who are a kingdom of priests, and we will rule and reign with Christ. It seems to me that God, in His mercy, allows this group to come to Him out of the tribulation as well, but they are not given the privilege of priesthood- only servants. Yet it is better to be a doorkeeper in the house of the Lord than to dwell in the tents of the wicked!
Also, after we see the 144,000 standing on Mount Zion with the Lamb in Chapter 14, three Angels fly overhead. The first proclaims the Gospel to every nation and tribe and language and people. The second announces that Babylon the great has fallen, and the third warns everyone not to receive the mark of the beast. We then see this clue:
And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!’” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them.” Rev 14:13
The multitude appears in heaven in chapter 7 right after the sealing of the 144,000, and here we see this proclamation that those who die in the Lord will be blessed right after we see a glimpse of these 144,000 with the Lamb. I really think this multitude of servants in heaven are those whom the Lord blesses by killing with His appointed angels!
Notice also that these angels kill 1/3 of mankind. One third is the Lord's part. We have seen that there are 3 parts of people now: Israel, Gentiles, and the Church. The third part of the church is about to be taken, and 2/3 will be left: Israel and the Gentiles. It makes sense to me that God will again take 1/3 of people unto Himself when they are killed by the angels. The multitude has the Lamb as their shepherd (Rev 7:17), which is not said about the elders. The 1/3 of mankind was killed by fire from the mouths of the angels, and we see this scripture in Zechariah talking about the shepherd and 1/3 being put into the fire while 2/3 are cut off and perish:
“Awake, O sword, against my shepherd,
against the man who stands next to me,”
declares the LORD of hosts.
“Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered;
I will turn my hand against the little ones.
In the whole land, declares the LORD,
two thirds shall be cut off and perish,
and one third shall be left alive.
And I will put this third into the fire,
and refine them as one refines silver,
and test them as gold is tested.
They will call upon my name,
and I will answer them.
I will say, ‘They are my people’;
and they will say, ‘The LORD is my God.’”
-Zechariah 13:7-9
If this is true, praise God for His mercy! What do you think?