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Post by venge on Apr 9, 2018 17:54:13 GMT -6
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Post by witness1 on Apr 9, 2018 20:46:37 GMT -6
The is fabulous. Thank you! I think a 30 AD crucifixion makes sense simply for the fact that the temple was destroyed in 70 AD... a full 40 years later. If there's one thing everyone looking at numbers and charts has shown us, it's that God generally uses nice round numbers. A crucifixion in 33 AD means there was only 37 years until the temple was destroyed, which just doesn't make as much sense to me.
Also, a 33 AD crucifixion means that Jesus MISSED THE JUBILEE by 2 years. Are you kidding me? That just doesn't make sense. However, Jesus' ministry from 26/27 to 30 means that He could have read the scroll in Isaiah proclaiming the year of the Lord's favor IN the year of jubilee. Now THAT sounds exactly like something our God would do. Of course God can do whatever He wants, but it seems like sending the Messiah in the fullness of time, in the year of jubilee, makes the most sense.
But a crucifixion in 30 AD means we have to throw out the traditional understanding of Daniel's 70 weeks. I'm working on a post for this which I will share soon.
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Post by boraddict on Apr 9, 2018 22:04:49 GMT -6
Since coming here and seeing specific threads built, it has caused me to rethink how I do my notes at home. My work is together piece by piece but I may separate it into files pertaining to things like the threads here. I will have to take time to split my work into: Signs of the son of man Antichrist defined Antichrist religion Earth vs Sea: the difference between the AC and beast Rapture: Pre Trib, 7th Trumpet or 6th seal When does Gods wrath begin The 4th empire ....this one I have a lot of info on and I go into what I think the last kingdom is. I also created a HUGE chronological chart that spans from Adam to today with jubilee years, Passover’s, sabbath years, important events etc....it’s very large I specifically am interested in your work on the jubilees and your timeline of events from Adam. I think Daniel 9 holds the key to a lot of our misunderstanding, and I have begun to look at the various decrees pertaining to Jerusalem and when the sabbath/jubilee years were. Isaac Newton believed that the 70 weeks needed to coincide with the shmita cycle, and right now my hypothesis is that the 69 weeks began with the decree found in Ezra in 457BC and that Messiah was anointed in 27AD (483 years later) in time to proclaim the jubilee that year or in 28 AD. But figuring out the jubilee years has been daunting so far, and there are a lot of views out there. Looking to see if you can confirm that 457 BC and 27/28 AD were sabbath and possibly jubilee years. If this 457 BC to 27 AD timeline is valid, that means it could be true that Jesus fulfilled the first half of the 70th week from 27-30 AD when He was cut off. Hi witness1. I am with you on the 457 BC to 27 AD; however, my take is that the 70 repeats as weeks in the life of the Savior. That is, the Savior's ministry was an acceptable year and not 3.5 years. Thus, Jesus was baptized and fasted (40 days), then he waited for the Passover (7 days), At Passover he cleansed the temple and then taught the acceptable year (360 days), then a 13th month was added to the calendar (30 days), then he is in the tomb (3 days), then he teaches (40 days), and last of all is the remaining 10 days of the 50 day count. The grand total is 490 days, 70 weeks. That is my best guess. Additionally, It is my understanding that the Catholic church calculates the Savior's ministry as 3.5 years and an additional 3.5 years in the Book of Acts to show that the 7 years are finished and that the Pope is the new Savior. As crazy as that sounds. It is my understanding that they believe the Pope is God's representative on earth and not Lord Jesus. Please do not shoot the messenger.  The absurdity of that doctrine is over the top. So back to the 7 sevens to build the temple (49 years), and the 62 sevens that brings us to 27 AD. Then there is one seven remaining for our time. That is, in the first use of the prophecy the counting of the sevens are in terms of years. However, in the second application of the 70, the count is in weeks and it is here that the Savior ministered upon the earth for 70 weeks. This requires a calculation of the feasts as outlined in The Gospel of John to which I have not endeavored to do. However, there are spring feasts and it is here that the Savior's ministry applies to the feasts. And then there is a 2,000 year break after which is the fall feasts. Again, I have not worked this through. Nevertheless, Tabernacles represents the time that the people are harvested and dwell in dwellings other than their homes. The overlapping applications of prophecy is mind-wrenching and I know that my calculations are a near miss. If Lord Jesus began is ministry in 27 AD and was born in 3 BC (most likely 2.5 BC) then that is a 30 year (29.5) part of the 70 years. And 40 years further take us to 67 AD (or 68 +) for the destruction of the temple. The other way to calculate is as you have done to take us to 70 AD. However, I do not think Lord Jesus was born at year one. |
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Post by venge on Apr 10, 2018 8:27:03 GMT -6
I specifically am interested in your work on the jubilees and your timeline of events from Adam. I think Daniel 9 holds the key to a lot of our misunderstanding, and I have begun to look at the various decrees pertaining to Jerusalem and when the sabbath/jubilee years were. Isaac Newton believed that the 70 weeks needed to coincide with the shmita cycle, and right now my hypothesis is that the 69 weeks began with the decree found in Ezra in 457BC and that Messiah was anointed in 27AD (483 years later) in time to proclaim the jubilee that year or in 28 AD. But figuring out the jubilee years has been daunting so far, and there are a lot of views out there. Looking to see if you can confirm that 457 BC and 27/28 AD were sabbath and possibly jubilee years. If this 457 BC to 27 AD timeline is valid, that means it could be true that Jesus fulfilled the first half of the 70th week from 27-30 AD when He was cut off. Hi witness1. I am with you on the 457 BC to 27 AD; however, my take is that the 70 repeats as weeks in the life of the Savior. That is, the Savior's ministry was an acceptable year and not 3.5 years. Thus, Jesus was baptized and fasted (40 days), then he waited for the Passover (7 days), At Passover he cleansed the temple and then taught the acceptable year (360 days), then a 13th month was added to the calendar (30 days), then he is in the tomb (3 days), then he teaches (40 days), and last of all is the remaining 10 days of the 50 day count. The grand total is 490 days, 70 weeks. That is my best guess. Additionally, It is my understanding that the Catholic church calculates the Savior's ministry as 3.5 years and an additional 3.5 years in the Book of Acts to show that the 7 years are finished and that the Pope is the new Savior. As crazy as that sounds. It is my understanding that they believe the Pope is God's representative on earth and not Lord Jesus. Please do not shoot the messenger. The absurdity of that doctrine is over the top. So back to the 7 sevens to build the temple (49 years), and the 62 sevens that brings us to 27 AD. Then there is one seven remaining for our time. That is, in the first use of the prophecy the counting of the sevens are in terms of years. However, in the second application of the 70, the count is in weeks and it is here that the Savior ministered upon the earth for 70 weeks. This requires a calculation of the feasts as outlined in The Gospel of John to which I have not endeavored to do. However, there are spring feasts and it is here that the Savior's ministry applies to the feasts. And then there is a 2,000 year break after which is the fall feasts. Again, I have not worked this through. Nevertheless, Tabernacles represents the time that the people are harvested and dwell in dwellings other than their homes. The overlapping applications of prophecy is mind-wrenching and I know that my calculations are a near miss. If Lord Jesus began is ministry in 27 AD and was born in 3 BC (most likely 2.5 BC) then that is a 30 year (29.5) part of the 70 years. And 40 years further take us to 67 AD (or 68 +) for the destruction of the temple. The other way to calculate is as you have done to take us to 70 AD. However, I do not think Lord Jesus was born at year one. Remember there were 2 year 1s. There is no year 0. Was 1 bc then 1ad then 2ad. As far as we know. Btw, year 1 and 2 bc we’re sabbatical years from my recollection |
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Post by boraddict on Apr 10, 2018 12:51:34 GMT -6
Good point venge. Thus, I would lean that the count begins at 2 BC. It would be 2 BC, 1 BC, 1-27 AD for a total of 29 + years. This would mean that the Savior was 29.5 years old, per our reckoning of time. However, since he had to 30 years old to begin his ministry in that culture, they must have counted 1 year for the time in the womb. I know the Koreans do that. Someone to us that is 29+ years old is 30+ years old in their culture. So the question is, Was 2 BC a sabbatical year?
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Post by witness1 on Apr 10, 2018 12:58:00 GMT -6
The hypothesis I am working on right now is that the 69th week ended in 27AD... 483 years from 457 BC. But 27AD is the BEGINNING of Jesus' ministry. Why should we stop the count of 70 weeks? I think that means the count kept going until He was cut off 3.5 years later. Thus I think 69.5 weeks have been fulfilled and there is only 3.5 years left for the great tribulation.
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Post by venge on Apr 10, 2018 18:23:49 GMT -6
The hypothesis I am working on right now is that the 69th week ended in 27AD... 483 years from 457 BC. But 27AD is the BEGINNING of Jesus' ministry. Why should we stop the count of 70 weeks? I think that means the count kept going until He was cut off 3.5 years later. Thus I think 69.5 weeks have been fulfilled and there is only 3.5 years left for the great tribulation. Good point! We stop it at his ministry because that’s when he was identified as messiah. Not at his birth or his death. Remember the prophecy 69 weeks till the messiah then he will be cut off. I’m paraphrasing. That makes 27 AD special if we are correct. Remember he dies about 30 years old. |
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Post by boraddict on Apr 10, 2018 18:23:51 GMT -6
The hypothesis I am working on right now is that the 69th week ended in 27AD... 483 years from 457 BC. But 27AD is the BEGINNING of Jesus' ministry. Why should we stop the count of 70 weeks? I think that means the count kept going until He was cut off 3.5 years later. Thus I think 69.5 weeks have been fulfilled and there is only 3.5 years left for the great tribulation. I think your conclusions are correct if Lord Jesus did in fact have a 3.5 year ministry. Also, as far as I am concerned the year 27 AD is set in stone. I believe the fixed date for us to go by is Passover, 27 AD. It is here that Lord Jesus cleansed the temple for the acceptable year of the Lord. Actually, he started his "in your face" campaign to the Pharisees when he turned the water into wine in "their" ceremonial pots and told the servants to serve the guest of honor first. When that man found out that the wine came from the ceremonial pots he would have been livid. The pots were for purification purposes only. The wine defiled the pots. That was the Savior's first violation of the takanot (laws enacted by the rabbis). The Catholic website newadvent.org shows a chronology of the Savior's ministry according to their doctrine. It was at this site that I found Pope Francis was number 266. I had already summarized that 4, 40, 400, and 4,000 were numbers having a connection to the Savior. So it was a matter of asking the question, If the Catholic church was the Savior's church then we would start with 400 for the Savior, and then add 266 for the number of God's representatives to Francis. Thus, Francis is number 666 answering the riddle of Rev. 13:18. I have not been to that website for a number of months but it should all be there. I have worked on the tribulation years forwards and backwards and I still haven't figured it out. I am convinced that the 70 years from Lord Jesus birth to the destruction of the temple parallels the birth of Israel in May 1948 to WHAT in 2018. The creation of the temple? It may be the case that there is a 70 year period then 3.5 years of troubles times. In that case the 3.5 years would be approx. 70 AD to 73.5 AD. Conversely, the 70 years at our time would end at 2018 and extend to 2021.5. If that is true, then the 69 sevens (483 years) ended at 27 AD. Then half of the last seven (3.5 years) took place at approx. 70 AD, and the remaining half of the last seven (3.5 years) is soon to begin. |
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Post by venge on Apr 10, 2018 18:34:23 GMT -6
The hypothesis I am working on right now is that the 69th week ended in 27AD... 483 years from 457 BC. But 27AD is the BEGINNING of Jesus' ministry. Why should we stop the count of 70 weeks? I think that means the count kept going until He was cut off 3.5 years later. Thus I think 69.5 weeks have been fulfilled and there is only 3.5 years left for the great tribulation. I think your conclusions are correct if Lord Jesus did in fact have a 3.5 year ministry. Also, as far as I am concerned the year 27 AD is set in stone. I believe the fixed date for us to go by is Passover, 27 AD. It is here that Lord Jesus cleansed the temple for the acceptable year of the Lord. Actually, he started his "in your face" campaign to the Pharisees when he turned the water into wine in "their" ceremonial pots and told the servants to serve the guest of honor first. When that man found out that the wine came from the ceremonial pots he would have been livid. The pots were for purification purposes only. The wine defiled the pots. That was the Savior's first violation of the takanot (laws enacted by the rabbis). The Catholic website newadvent.org shows a chronology of the Savior's ministry according to their doctrine. It was at this site that I found Pope Francis was number 266. I had already summarized that 4, 40, 400, and 4,000 were numbers having a connection to the Savior. So it was a matter of asking the question, If the Catholic church was the Savior's church then we would start with 400 for the Savior, and then add 266 for the number of God's representatives to Francis. Thus, Francis is number 666 answering the riddle of Rev. 13:18. I have not been to that website for a number of months but it should all be there. I have worked on the tribulation years forwards and backwards and I still haven't figured it out. I am convinced that the 70 years from Lord Jesus birth to the destruction of the temple parallels the birth of Israel in May 1948 to WHAT in 2018. The creation of the temple? Boradict Why do you think it is the Vatican or Rome or Catholicism? Do you have scripture that makes you believe that or using descriptors from the Bible can you link your idea to it so I can understand |
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Post by boraddict on Apr 10, 2018 19:06:05 GMT -6
I think your conclusions are correct if Lord Jesus did in fact have a 3.5 year ministry. Also, as far as I am concerned the year 27 AD is set in stone. I believe the fixed date for us to go by is Passover, 27 AD. It is here that Lord Jesus cleansed the temple for the acceptable year of the Lord. Actually, he started his "in your face" campaign to the Pharisees when he turned the water into wine in "their" ceremonial pots and told the servants to serve the guest of honor first. When that man found out that the wine came from the ceremonial pots he would have been livid. The pots were for purification purposes only. The wine defiled the pots. That was the Savior's first violation of the takanot (laws enacted by the rabbis). The Catholic website newadvent.org shows a chronology of the Savior's ministry according to their doctrine. It was at this site that I found Pope Francis was number 266. I had already summarized that 4, 40, 400, and 4,000 were numbers having a connection to the Savior. So it was a matter of asking the question, If the Catholic church was the Savior's church then we would start with 400 for the Savior, and then add 266 for the number of God's representatives to Francis. Thus, Francis is number 666 answering the riddle of Rev. 13:18. I have not been to that website for a number of months but it should all be there. I have worked on the tribulation years forwards and backwards and I still haven't figured it out. I am convinced that the 70 years from Lord Jesus birth to the destruction of the temple parallels the birth of Israel in May 1948 to WHAT in 2018. The creation of the temple? Boradict Why do you think it is the Vatican or Rome or Catholicism? Do you have scripture that makes you believe that or using descriptors from the Bible can you link your idea to it so I can understand Yes there is other evidence; however, I had worked on the riddle for about three weeks and multiple ideas before I discovered the Catholic website and that Francis was 266. Some of the other evidence is the fish god that existed prior to 325 AD that is symbolized by the open mouth of the "fish head hat" that the Pope wears. I think multiple beliefs were incorporated into the Catholic doctrine. They incorporated the sun god into their doctrine via worshiping on the first day of the week and naming it Sunday. The Hebrew days of the week are numbered 1-6 and the 7th is Shabbat. I think the Catholic church is a conglomeration of beliefs that satisfied the concerns of all the people of the Roman Empire, or at least gave the major beliefs a chair at the table so to say. |
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Post by venge on Apr 11, 2018 7:43:29 GMT -6
Boradict Why do you think it is the Vatican or Rome or Catholicism? Do you have scripture that makes you believe that or using descriptors from the Bible can you link your idea to it so I can understand Yes there is other evidence; however, I had worked on the riddle for about three weeks and multiple ideas before I discovered the Catholic website and that Francis was 266. Some of the other evidence is the fish god that existed prior to 325 AD that is symbolized by the open mouth of the "fish head hat" that the Pope wears. I think multiple beliefs were incorporated into the Catholic doctrine. They incorporated the sun god into their doctrine via worshiping on the first day of the week and naming it Sunday. The Hebrew days of the week are numbered 1-6 and the 7th is Shabbat. I think the Catholic church is a conglomeration of beliefs that satisfied the concerns of all the people of the Roman Empire, or at least gave the major beliefs a chair at the table so to say. But none of the is scripture. Do you have scripture to make the claim? Also, the oldest manuscripts show Sunday was the Lords day which Christians worshipped on. Not Shabbat. This is prior to Constantine. There is a verse, I don’t know the location off hand, but it says or eludes to Christ is our 24/7 sabbath. Sabbath was for man, not man for sabbath. |
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Post by venge on Apr 11, 2018 8:03:07 GMT -6
I should add: Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Eusebius and Ignatius and more. Some of them in the 1st century 120 years after Christ and none used the sabbath but chose the Lords day, The first day of the week.
Read Isaiah 58:13-14
The sabbath was meant to show your heart to God and not selfishness. To give up what you wanna do for him. When Sunday comes, and it’s the Super Bowl, do you stay home and do what you wanna do or do you worship God? Just an example. Christ is our sabbath every day. Always put God first in all things. Doesn’t mean u can’t do what you wanna do but don’t put things over him.
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Post by boraddict on Apr 11, 2018 9:01:48 GMT -6
Yes there is other evidence; however, I had worked on the riddle for about three weeks and multiple ideas before I discovered the Catholic website and that Francis was 266. Some of the other evidence is the fish god that existed prior to 325 AD that is symbolized by the open mouth of the "fish head hat" that the Pope wears. I think multiple beliefs were incorporated into the Catholic doctrine. They incorporated the sun god into their doctrine via worshiping on the first day of the week and naming it Sunday. The Hebrew days of the week are numbered 1-6 and the 7th is Shabbat. I think the Catholic church is a conglomeration of beliefs that satisfied the concerns of all the people of the Roman Empire, or at least gave the major beliefs a chair at the table so to say. But none of the is scripture. Do you have scripture to make the claim? Also, the oldest manuscripts show Sunday was the Lords day which Christians worshipped on. Not Shabbat. This is prior to Constantine. There is a verse, I don’t know the location off hand, but it says or eludes to Christ is our 24/7 sabbath. Sabbath was for man, not man for sabbath. Hi venge. I suppose in all fairness we both should provide scriptural proofs. I will devour to find where Francis is referenced in scripture and you devour to find where the sabbath day was changed from the 7th day to the 1st. Personally, I do not think either of us can find that proof. |
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Post by venge on Apr 11, 2018 10:04:11 GMT -6
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Post by boraddict on Apr 11, 2018 20:44:14 GMT -6
Hi venge. I suppose in all fairness we both should provide scriptural proofs. I will devour to find where Francis is referenced in scripture and you devour to find where the sabbath day was changed from the 7th day to the 1st. Personally, I do not think either of us can find that proof. Of course there is no verse that says to change the day. But, the verse I quoted in Isaiah shows what a sabbath is to be. Romans 5:8 even shows “do not walk according to the flesh but by the spirit” backing up what God said in Isaiah. We must ask then, if Saturday is a major law still observed, why was it not found in the New Testament? All the other commandments were. That presents a problem. When we look to Romans 14:5-6 it explains 1 day to one is special and another day to another is likewise. This is because some early Christians who were Jews wanted to know if they worship on the Lords day or Saturday or both days as some did. This was a contention between James and Paul. Paul had stated in those verses even eating food to God one day is special and not another day is also special. Thanks Venge. I am going to write the verses you quoted and see if they say as you have asserted. Isa. 58:13-14, "If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it."From what I see in Isa. 58:13-14 the Lord states: "If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath" meaning "from doing thy pleasure on my holy day"; Thus, if thou stop doing thy pleasure on my holy day, "and call the sabbath a delight," "the holy (sabbath) of the LORD, honorable (sabbath day); and shalt honor him not doing thine own ways (but honoring the LORDS sabbath day), nor finding thine own pleasure (on the sabbath day) nor speaking thine own words (on the sabbath day): Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD and (your reward will be) I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with he heritage of Jacob thy father for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it." Thus, as I understand Isa. 58:13-14: they are to God's servants the 144,000 and not to the general membership because it is the 144,000 that ride upon the high places of the earth and are fed with the heritage of Jacob. However, it would be wise for the general membership to also follow this council and honor the Lord's sabbath day; the 7th. Romans 5:8, "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." From what I see in Rom. 5:8 there is no reference to the Lord's sabbath day. Romans 14:5-6, "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks."From what I see in Rom. 14:5-6 the Lord states: "One man esteemeth one day (the sabbath) above another (the other days of the week): another (man) esteemeth every day (all seven days) alike (that there is no difference in the days of the week; no sabbath day). Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind (let everyone decide for themselves). He that regardeth the (sabbath) day, regardeth it (the sabbath day) unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the (sabbath) day, to the Lord he doth not regard it (the sabbath day). He that eateth (food on the sabbath day), eateth (food on the sabbath day) to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks (for the sabbath day); and he that eateth not (food on the sabbath day), to the Lord he eateth not (the food on the sabbath day), and giveth God thanks. Thus, as I understand Rom. 14:5-6: some people will eat the food (God's message) on the sabbath day and some will not. That is, some will eat the food on the 7th day and some will not. However, in both cases they give God thanks. That is, in the first case they give thanks on the sabbath day; the 7th, and in the second case they give thanks on the day that is not the sabbath; the 1st. They may call the first day the Lord's sabbath, but it is not. However, worshiping the Lord on the first day is worshiping the Lord. Yet, they are not worshiping on the Lord's sabbath; the 7th day of the week. Thus, by virtue of calling the first day the Lord's sabbath does not make it so. However, worshiping on the first day is a good thing to do; although, it is not the day prescribed by the Lord of the sabbath. His sabbath day is the 7th and any other day of the week is not the Lord's sabbath day. |
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The absurdity of that doctrine is over the top.