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Post by grandpaskitzo on Mar 19, 2018 8:52:46 GMT -6
Those who bless Israel will be blessed and those who curse Israel will be cursed. Why are we so sure this is physical Israel? Yes we see things in the physical, but it happens in the spiritual first and that’s what Christ was getting us to understand, the spiritual elements. It’s about the true spiritual body of Christ, spiritual Israel in which Jesus grafts us into.
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Post by mike on Mar 19, 2018 9:47:18 GMT -6
I am no scholar grandpaskitzo and am writing this very brief question to you. Not to be combative but a sincere question about your above post. If we take Israel to be spiritual and not physical how do we explain Damascus becoming utterly destroyed/ruinous heap? How do we delineate things written as physical and spiritual when translating? Again please excuse my brevity and lack of development of the topical question, hopefully you understand it. |
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Post by grandpaskitzo on Mar 19, 2018 12:10:50 GMT -6
I dont believe it’s only a spiritual fulfillment, I do agree there’s a physical fulfillment too. I just don’t see it happening at all how were all expecting it to, and truly think we’ve put way too much focus on the physical aspects and have missed the main point of the spiritual. Yes, I still think Damascus is going to be destroyed. The difference in how we look at what is being talked about is to read carefully and see how all scripture applies to the spiritual. It does on some level. God’s word is infinite in depth. Ultimately, we have to be in prayer and asking God to show us the deeper implications or meanings of His word, and I mean every single word. Nothing is by accident and every word holds deep and important meaning. Try it with names whenever they’re mentioned. Check out Daniel 9:1 and look at the meaning of the names. Those first couple verses are important to what follows. Thanks for asking. I’m never offended by discussion or anything like this. I love the conversations that happen on this site.  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2018 12:16:40 GMT -6
God used physical Israel as a template and example throughout history.
Israel was a real physical nation with physical people and is again today.
The scriptures in Ezekiel (and in other places) speak volumes of the restoration of Israel as a physical nation with physical people.
This does not rule out a spiritual meaning, but why should God now (in the NT) switch to a sole spiritual interpretation of the prophetic word?
I think, God does not change his mind regarding Israel, though we as heathen are now part of (spiritual) Israel and I am pretty sure, we may see dual fulfilment of the prophetic words.
God today still uses the same principles as he did in the past.
Just my 0.015$
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Post by peoplegetready on Mar 19, 2018 12:55:14 GMT -6
More on my case for Uranus representing the Philadelphia Church---
URANUS IN TAURUS AS PERTAINS TO U.S. HISTORY - IMPORTANT DATES
(Remember, Uranus is only in Taurus every 84 years)
IN TAURUS
May 14, 1607 Jamestown Uranus, Mars, Mercury, Venus
April 19, 1775 Lexington/Concord Uranus, Mars
Beginning of Revolutionary War
July 4, 1776 Independence Day Uranus, Mars
March 13, 1781 Uranus discovered by Herschel Uranus
April 12, 1861 Civil War begins Uranus, Mars
December 7, 1941 Pearl Harbor Uranus, Jupiter, Saturn
(Mercury in foot of Ophiucus)
June 6, 1944 D-Day Uranus/Venus conjunction
August 6, 1945 Hiroshima Uranus, Mars
FUTURE--
May 2024 the last and most severe Uranus, Jupiter and Venus conjunctions.
judgments begin? Venus moves on. Mars has a conjunction
with Saturn in Aquarius (in the stream
flowing) on April 10, 2024, and moves across
to Taurus and conjuncts with Uranus on
July 15, 2024. Solar eclipse in U.S. on
April 8, 2024.
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Post by peoplegetready on Mar 19, 2018 14:24:31 GMT -6
Hi again,
If it's ok to do this, could someone put on the beautiful song, PEOPLE GET READY, written by Curtis Mayfield and sung with the
Impressions? It was #14 on the Top Forty back in February 1965. It was on the charts for 8 weeks. My how times have
changed!!!
If anyone reading this thread isn't saved yet, it's a song for them.
Thanks
p.s. It's because of this song I've been writing my little articles here--you know--one of those God things that happens to you
sometimes.
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Post by mike on Mar 19, 2018 14:31:54 GMT -6
Thanks grandpaskitzo & @stephan - As I noted I knew I didnt phrase the question well. I do believe their is some facet of duality. I would not rule out physical Israel as I would not spiritual. it seems clear to me that the signs of physical Israel play out in the news almost daily. The alliance of Iran, Turkey & Russia surrounding them, along with lebanon & Syria to name a few, all are unfolding right before our eyes. But as you apply that GPS I wonder what it means in the spirit? I mean (for example) what powers and principalities are represented by this alliance and how do they affect the situation at large (rhetorical)? What other applications belong to spiritual things rather than physical or even vice versa perhaps even both. Again rhetorically speaking |
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Post by disciple4life on Mar 20, 2018 1:42:24 GMT -6
Those who bless Israel will be blessed and those who curse Israel will be cursed. Why are we so sure this is physical Israel? Yes we see things in the physical, but it happens in the spiritual first and that’s what Christ was getting us to understand, the spiritual elements. It’s about the true spiritual body of Christ, spiritual Israel in which Jesus grafts us into. Hello my fellowwatchman.
@gps, Can you clarify what you mean by "this" - in the above statement. "Why are we so sure this is physical Israel." ? I lost track of which question or post this statement was connected with.
I just want to understand and not 'react'. ;-)
I think my initial thought might be pre-mature -because I don't understand your statement or where it belongs in the thread.
Disciple4life.
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Post by mike on Mar 20, 2018 11:24:01 GMT -6
A short video on this topic of physical Israel and the promises of God to them. Something I am reminded (not necessarily from the video) is that Paul and the other NT writers only had the OT writings to learn from and teach from. We have the benefit of those epistles and the gospels to learn all the more.
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Post by grandpaskitzo on Mar 20, 2018 11:37:21 GMT -6
Those who bless Israel will be blessed and those who curse Israel will be cursed. Why are we so sure this is physical Israel? Yes we see things in the physical, but it happens in the spiritual first and that’s what Christ was getting us to understand, the spiritual elements. It’s about the true spiritual body of Christ, spiritual Israel in which Jesus grafts us into. Hello my fellowwatchman.
@gps, Can you clarify what you mean by "this" - in the above statement. "Why are we so sure this is physical Israel." ? I lost track of which question or post this statement was connected with.
I just want to understand and not 'react'. ;-)
I think my initial thought might be pre-mature -because I don't understand your statement or where it belongs in the thread.
Disciple4life.
This - Israel. I meant why do we assume that verse is talking about physical Israel? |
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Post by mike on Mar 20, 2018 12:21:54 GMT -6
grandpaskitzo - watch the first 5 or so mins of the video I posted. God tells Abram this, reiterates to Isaac & Jacob, reminds Moses of his promise. The video then explains further Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit [is there] of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be TRUE, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
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Post by disciple4life on Mar 21, 2018 12:57:28 GMT -6
Hello my fellowwatchman.
@gps, Can you clarify what you mean by "this" - in the above statement. "Why are we so sure this is physical Israel." ? I lost track of which question or post this statement was connected with.
I just want to understand and not 'react'. ;-)
I think my initial thought might be pre-mature -because I don't understand your statement or where it belongs in the thread.
Disciple4life.
This - Israel. I meant why do we assume that verse is talking about physical Israel? Thanks, @gps. I think it's clear that it is NOT implying a physical geographical country of Israel, (Just to be clear - it seems like this is what you mean, and I would agree 100%) It's not about a land territory marked by a border with a sign, but the 'Nation of Israel - or more precisely the people of Israel, - Jews, which are all over the world. Think about it. The tribulation is for Jewish people - all over the world - and all those who have rejected the Messiah. It is the time of Jacob's Trouble. -- Remember Jacob - who had the dream and who wrestled with the angel - his new name was Israel. hmmmm. ;-) I think it's like Corrie Ten Boom said - You can't love God and not love his people.
Disciple4life
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Post by mike on Mar 21, 2018 13:22:04 GMT -6
@d4l His genealogical people as well as spiritual people (me, you, GPS, etc)?
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Post by davewatchman on Mar 24, 2018 17:56:50 GMT -6
Thank you douwant2go2heaven. Your post had a lot of good information to think about. Here's my 2 cents. We were warned by the solar eclipse on 8-21-17. (To whom much is given, much is required.) The U.S. is hit with nukes from the North (over the north pole) sent by the Lord. Many in the U.S. are destroyed, but many are left. The children of Israel and Judah are to return to Israel. Jeremiah also says many will go back to their own country (the immigration problem solved). It will be hell on earth for the U.S. from then on. It will be invaded by foreigners--Chinese, Russians and many others. The traitors in this country have let many of them in just waiting for the day. They also have the concentration camps ready to go. Death, destruction, famine, and pestilence will reign. There will be many tribulation saints martyred. Revelation 18:2 says Babylon the Great is fallen, is fallen. To me, it means twice. The second eclipse on April 8, 2024, is the other warning. This is the final destruction of the U.S. or what's left of it. One more thought--Isaiah 17, is Damascus (imminent in my opinion). I've been taught by J.R. Church and Southwest Radio Church and others that Isaiah 18 is the U.S. Isaiah 18:5 says: For afore the harvest when the bud is perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the flower, He shall cut off the sprigs with pruning hooks and take away and cut down the branches. I think the grape harvest in California is towards the end of August/September. July seems about right to me--Mars brightest and the Lunar eclipse on July 27, 2018. Like I said--just my 2 cents. I agree August 21 was a warning, more of an indicator of the end. But it's not what most people think. In 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue, there were four blood moons and God was opening up a new continent. A flood was spewing forth from the dragon's mouth but with the help of men like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson a holy place, the earth, would be made ready to help the woman after 1260 years of papal persecution came to an end in 1798. The first nation on the planet complete with a "Bible belt" was to be born when it was previously illegal to be caught with one. In 1776 America was founded and would become a safe place for God's People to own, print and study their Bibles. Prior to this in the dark ages of Europe, entire villages of Christian men, women and children had none of these religious freedoms and were burnt at the stake more often than not for reading or owning their own Bibles. The Great American eclipse in August appeared to draw an X in a geographical population timeline, marking out a specific time zone in the country where a place of safety, a place prepared by God, may have come to it's end. I don't think that we will do any worse than any other nation, there are wilderness locations to flee the cities from wherever you live. Take note where the approximate area in the country where the X marks the spot here:  When God does a thing, it becomes holy. Not that the thing is holy, therefore God does it. The ground became holy for Moses and Joshua. And a place prepared by God is a holy place. These two solar eclipses are marking out an "X" in a geological point in time. Now look to where this Mean center of the United States population graph starts at, and then points to:  The timeline begins in "DC" in 1798, after 1260 years of PayPal persecution came to an end during the Foxe Book days, and ends around 2015 somewhere in Western Missouri. Times up, gotta head for the hills. It's not too hard to figure out, knowledge has been increased. Get your google out and search for "X marks the spot eclipse", and "United States mean census time line". My favorite, with Jeff Beck on guitar: People get ready, there's a train a-comin' You don't need no baggage, you just get on board All you need is faith to hear the diesels hummin' Don't need no ticket, you just thank the Lord So people get ready for the train to Jordan Picking up passengers from coast to coast Faith is the key, open the doors and board them There's room for all among the loved the most There ain't no room for the hopeless sinner Who would hurt all mankind just to save his own Have pity on those whose chances grow thinner But there's no hiding place from this kingdom's throne So people get ready, there's a train a-comin' You don't need no baggage, you just get on board All you need is faith to hear the diesels hummin' You don't need no ticket, you just thank the Lord Thank the Lord. |
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Post by peoplegetready on Mar 25, 2018 15:44:53 GMT -6
davewatchman--Excellent post! The Census Line was interesting, and I really liked how you put it all together with
the history of the Church and the United States Bible Belt. Isn't the "X" where the New Madrid seismic zone is?
Thanks for putting on the songs and the words too. You rescued me again.
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