Post by butterfly5777 on Nov 20, 2017 18:36:34 GMT -6
Hi All,
I wanted to write to share some information on Pleiades or the Seven Sisters, which will be present in the night sky on November 21st. But, first...
I realize everyone has been watching and studying the sky because of the Sept 23/24th Rev 12 sign; the appearance of the dragon; and the conjunction of Jupiter and Venus or the Bethlehem Star in Israel. I believe most are now awaiting the "rapture of the Man Child" - although I have not read or heard which stars this event actually corresponds to in the night sky or when they are to appear. If anyone has any information on this, please let me know. Thanks.
With all due respect to our brother, Scottie, I have some serious questions when it comes to ascribing the identity of the Man Child to the Church. This theory is very confusing to me and brings up a number of questions.
I am stumped by the following:
1.) My understanding is that this theory claims the church was only "conceived" at Pentecost and not yet "birthed". I ask how this can be possible when we have been "Born Again" for 2000 years? Mind you, I understand that this title refers to our spiritual rebirth as New Creations in Christ, but then again - doesn't spiritual re - "birth" mean we have been "born"? Why would we be birthed at the end of the "Church Age" when we are about to be taken to Heaven? What purpose would this serve in building His Kingdom? Doesn't that defeat the purpose?
2.) The original interpretation of Rev 12 has to do with the Virgin Mary giving birth to Jesus with Herod lying in wait to kill the Christ Child. This was later confirmed by Fred Larson in his research and work on The Bethlehem Star. Today, however, most prophecy experts who read Rev 12 believe the Virgin is Israel. Therefore, I ask how is it that Israel gives birth to the Church? Does "a body" of Unbelievers give birth to Believers? If they did, there would have been no reason for Christ to come in the first place as the Jews would have been doing the job they were called to do all along. Since they were not, the Person who birthed us was Christ. Not Israel. I guess, if Christ had been the constellation in the sky on Nov 23/24th I could then see the Man Child being us. But, since He was not, this makes me think there must be an alternative identity to the Man Child.
3.) When I think of someone being born, I think of two parents contributing their respective DNA. For this reason, it seems more likely to me that the Man Child being spoken of in Rev 12 is "the body" of the 144,000 Jewish MEN who will evangelize the Jews once we are gone. These have the DNA of being fully Jewish by blood, have a complete understanding of the Torah and OT Scriptures, and will be "Born" into the faith and given the Holy Spirit. Therefore, they will have the full "DNA" of both Israel and Christ, where the Church does not. (Remember the majority of us are Gentiles, who were "grafted in" and not of Jewish descent.) This makes more sense when I think of the "Conception Comet" traveling 2000 years and then emerging from the Lion of the Tribe of Judah (constellation Leo) as well as the planet Jupiter (The King Planet) in retrograde motion over the womb of the Virgin for 9 months prior to this sign's appearance. To me, this looks like Christ impregnating Israel with a "child" that has traits of both parents.
4.) The Rev 12 sign clearly seems to mark the beginning and end of the time in which Christians will be on the earth prior to the millenial reign. They appear to be book ends with the onset of Christ calling His Followers when He walked the planet, and the final ingathering of Christian martyrs who will be killed in the Tribulation at the end of the midpoint. I say this because the Rev 12 sign shows up in CHAPTER 12 of the Book. This means that either the reference to the Man Child is something other than the Church, or the Church goes through the Tribulation (which I do not believe it does), or the Book of Revelation is out of order (which brings up a host of issues when considering the accuracy and inerrancy of Scripture).
5.) Along with #4 the specific passage regarding the Man Child comes as the 3RD WOE and the time of His Wrath is beginning! Again, if we are the Man Child, I don't know how a "Pretribulation Rapture" is possible.
6.) The reference in the passage that refers to "ruling the nations with a rod of iron..." appears to refer back to the Church of Thyatira, not the Church of Philadelphia. Specifically,
"She gave birth to a Man Child who will rule every nation with a rod of iron, but her Child was caught up to God and to His throne." (Rev 12)
"Write these words in a letter and send it to the Minister of the Church of Thyatira: ... To the overcomer, who does My Father's will until the end, I will give power over the nations. Just as I received from My Father, he will rule the nations with a rod of iron. For as vessels these nations will be broken to pieces by the potter."
Since Philadelphia is the only church that's spared the "hour of tribulation that's to come upon the earth," one can surmise that Thyatira goes through the tribulation and this is the reason the Remnant of new Messianic Believers are admonished to continue to do His Father's will until the end (the end of the tribulation, prior to the great tribulation beginning).
Frankly, I see no way the Rev 12 sign can be pointing to the Church of Philadelphia (Born Again believers) that's no longer on earth, having been raptured before the Tribulation begins, when the Rev 12 sign shows up at the 3rd Woe.
7.) Are we currently at the 3rd Woe in 2017? I don't think so. There are many, many events that have to happen before this occurs.
Given all of this, in my opinion, making the claim that the identity of the Man Child is the Church seems to be fraught with a number of issues and problems. (Of course, if anyone has logical and Biblical reasons to refute this, I'm open to hearing them, and discussing the possibility. But so far, I have serious reservations about this.)
There is, however, a little known constellation called Pleiades that's coming in the night sky that has some potential, that perhaps we should consider.
As legend has it, many ancient cultures have associated Pleiades, also called THE SEVEN STARS, or the Seven Sisters, with the 7 CHURCHES OF REVELATION. (The "Seven Stars" you saw in My right hand are the Ministers of the Seven Churches.")
According to NASA, Stellarium, EarthSky, and many other astronomy sites, Pleiades is a cluster of 7 stars - 6 of which are very bright and can be seen with the naked eye against a black sky, and 1 of which is "HIDDEN" or "MISSING." (This matches the idea of 6 churches still present against the backdrop of the blackness of sin, while the Church of Philadelphia is spared or "Hidden" from "the hour of wrath that's about to come upon the earth.")
Some old Greek legends even consider the missing Sister to be "THE LOST PLEIAD". ("I once was lost but now am found.")
The 6 stars that are visible are often mistaken for the Little Dipper or a "SICKLE." (Coinciding with the Tribulation Saints being martyred by beheading.)
They are a cluster of stars that typically appear in the Heavens in NOVEMBER - with the ancients using them to mark "THE END OF THE HARVEST" by "THE CROSS" with the winter season beginning in the top right quadrant (Dec, Jan, Feb); the spring season (Mar, Apr, May) in the bottom right quadrant; the summer season (Jun, Jul, Aug) in the lower left quadrant; and the autumn season in the upper left quadrant (Sep, Oct, Nov). This places the month of NOVEMBER squarely in THE 11TH HOUR if you were to position these around the circle of a clock. The brightest appearance of the Pleiades is said to be at "MIDNIGHT" or the end of the month of November. ("At MIDNIGHT the cry rang out: The Bridegroom is here! Come out to meet Him!" Matt 25:6)
The timing of Pleiades is considered a "SEASON OF AWAKENING" agriculturally in the Southern hemisphere, where the spring flowers are in bloom, and the stars are considered "HOEING STARS". (Confirmation of the barley harvest? "As it was in the Days of Noah... two men will be in the field, one will be taken, the other will be left. Two women will be grinding at the mill. One will be taken, the other left." Matt 24:40)
Some saw them as "SEED STARS"... as the seeds that were planted in hopes of "A BOUNTIFUL CROP". (Parable of the Sower?)
Other ancient peoples, such as the Celts and Druids, considered them to coincide with the original date of Halloween or All Hallows' Eve in the 11th and 12th centuries, where the celebration of "Samhain" - the early forebearer of Halloween - took place, marking the event with the appearance of the Pleiades "climbing to HIGHEST POINT at MIDNIGHT" in the night sky. At the time, the Julian calendar was not in use and the event fell on the date we now know as Halloween - October 31st. However, had the Cross Quarter celebration calendar still been in use today, the emergence of Pleaides would have originated in the night sky on November 7th (1st day of Tabernacles) and culminated on or near November 21st at MIDNIGHT.
At this time, it was believed that "THE VEIL" dividing "THE LIVING" and "THE DEAD" was at it's thinnest point - and that "THE DEAD" could be "CALLED UP" and brought to life again. (Of course, this would be a satanic imitation of God's Word and His true plan for the Church. But, is it a possible reference to The Dead in Christ rising and the remaining Christians meeting the Lord in the air - the thinnest point?)
The Greek name "Pleiades" means "TO SAIL AWAY". (RAPTURE?)
God spoke to Job stating, "Can you bind the sweet influences of the Pleiades or loose the cords of Orion?" (KJV) Since Pleiades is known to be rising in the Spring, they poetically illustrate God's gift of grace through the Church and loosening of the cords (removal of the Restrainer - HS filled Believers) unleashing stormy weather of adversity (Tribulation) on the earth.
Finally, Pleiades is considered to shine hundreds of times more brightly than our sun. (Jesus said, "Greater works will you do than I have done.")
I'm not saying November 21st at Midnight is the rapture. LET ME BE CLEAR ON THIS POINT. I just think it's interesting that all of this is playing out in the night sky at the exact correct time. Plus, if I'm not mistaken, the month of Cheshvan will end on the 21st/22nd and the Days of Noah for 2017 will be over. (He who made the Pleiades and Orion and changes deep darkness into morning, who also darkens the day into night, who calls the waters of the sea and pours them out on the surface of the earth... the Lord is His Name." Amos 5:8)
It seems like a high watch time, if nothing else - especially since we are quickly coming to the end point of Nov 29, 2017 when the anniversary of the UN Declaration allowing Israel to become a nation will occur. This will bring the 70 year generation to a close and it seems highly unlikely it will be an 80 year generation "as if by strength" for the church, as God must allow 7 years for the time of "Jacob's Trouble." (Unless of course, by this calculation, He comes three years from now - which doesn't seem to make sense or match with any of the major signs we are seeing in 2017.)
Whatever the case, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.
Here's to hoping He's coming soon! Maranatha!
I wanted to write to share some information on Pleiades or the Seven Sisters, which will be present in the night sky on November 21st. But, first...
I realize everyone has been watching and studying the sky because of the Sept 23/24th Rev 12 sign; the appearance of the dragon; and the conjunction of Jupiter and Venus or the Bethlehem Star in Israel. I believe most are now awaiting the "rapture of the Man Child" - although I have not read or heard which stars this event actually corresponds to in the night sky or when they are to appear. If anyone has any information on this, please let me know. Thanks.
With all due respect to our brother, Scottie, I have some serious questions when it comes to ascribing the identity of the Man Child to the Church. This theory is very confusing to me and brings up a number of questions.
I am stumped by the following:
1.) My understanding is that this theory claims the church was only "conceived" at Pentecost and not yet "birthed". I ask how this can be possible when we have been "Born Again" for 2000 years? Mind you, I understand that this title refers to our spiritual rebirth as New Creations in Christ, but then again - doesn't spiritual re - "birth" mean we have been "born"? Why would we be birthed at the end of the "Church Age" when we are about to be taken to Heaven? What purpose would this serve in building His Kingdom? Doesn't that defeat the purpose?
2.) The original interpretation of Rev 12 has to do with the Virgin Mary giving birth to Jesus with Herod lying in wait to kill the Christ Child. This was later confirmed by Fred Larson in his research and work on The Bethlehem Star. Today, however, most prophecy experts who read Rev 12 believe the Virgin is Israel. Therefore, I ask how is it that Israel gives birth to the Church? Does "a body" of Unbelievers give birth to Believers? If they did, there would have been no reason for Christ to come in the first place as the Jews would have been doing the job they were called to do all along. Since they were not, the Person who birthed us was Christ. Not Israel. I guess, if Christ had been the constellation in the sky on Nov 23/24th I could then see the Man Child being us. But, since He was not, this makes me think there must be an alternative identity to the Man Child.
3.) When I think of someone being born, I think of two parents contributing their respective DNA. For this reason, it seems more likely to me that the Man Child being spoken of in Rev 12 is "the body" of the 144,000 Jewish MEN who will evangelize the Jews once we are gone. These have the DNA of being fully Jewish by blood, have a complete understanding of the Torah and OT Scriptures, and will be "Born" into the faith and given the Holy Spirit. Therefore, they will have the full "DNA" of both Israel and Christ, where the Church does not. (Remember the majority of us are Gentiles, who were "grafted in" and not of Jewish descent.) This makes more sense when I think of the "Conception Comet" traveling 2000 years and then emerging from the Lion of the Tribe of Judah (constellation Leo) as well as the planet Jupiter (The King Planet) in retrograde motion over the womb of the Virgin for 9 months prior to this sign's appearance. To me, this looks like Christ impregnating Israel with a "child" that has traits of both parents.
4.) The Rev 12 sign clearly seems to mark the beginning and end of the time in which Christians will be on the earth prior to the millenial reign. They appear to be book ends with the onset of Christ calling His Followers when He walked the planet, and the final ingathering of Christian martyrs who will be killed in the Tribulation at the end of the midpoint. I say this because the Rev 12 sign shows up in CHAPTER 12 of the Book. This means that either the reference to the Man Child is something other than the Church, or the Church goes through the Tribulation (which I do not believe it does), or the Book of Revelation is out of order (which brings up a host of issues when considering the accuracy and inerrancy of Scripture).
5.) Along with #4 the specific passage regarding the Man Child comes as the 3RD WOE and the time of His Wrath is beginning! Again, if we are the Man Child, I don't know how a "Pretribulation Rapture" is possible.
6.) The reference in the passage that refers to "ruling the nations with a rod of iron..." appears to refer back to the Church of Thyatira, not the Church of Philadelphia. Specifically,
"She gave birth to a Man Child who will rule every nation with a rod of iron, but her Child was caught up to God and to His throne." (Rev 12)
"Write these words in a letter and send it to the Minister of the Church of Thyatira: ... To the overcomer, who does My Father's will until the end, I will give power over the nations. Just as I received from My Father, he will rule the nations with a rod of iron. For as vessels these nations will be broken to pieces by the potter."
Since Philadelphia is the only church that's spared the "hour of tribulation that's to come upon the earth," one can surmise that Thyatira goes through the tribulation and this is the reason the Remnant of new Messianic Believers are admonished to continue to do His Father's will until the end (the end of the tribulation, prior to the great tribulation beginning).
Frankly, I see no way the Rev 12 sign can be pointing to the Church of Philadelphia (Born Again believers) that's no longer on earth, having been raptured before the Tribulation begins, when the Rev 12 sign shows up at the 3rd Woe.
7.) Are we currently at the 3rd Woe in 2017? I don't think so. There are many, many events that have to happen before this occurs.
Given all of this, in my opinion, making the claim that the identity of the Man Child is the Church seems to be fraught with a number of issues and problems. (Of course, if anyone has logical and Biblical reasons to refute this, I'm open to hearing them, and discussing the possibility. But so far, I have serious reservations about this.)
There is, however, a little known constellation called Pleiades that's coming in the night sky that has some potential, that perhaps we should consider.
As legend has it, many ancient cultures have associated Pleiades, also called THE SEVEN STARS, or the Seven Sisters, with the 7 CHURCHES OF REVELATION. (The "Seven Stars" you saw in My right hand are the Ministers of the Seven Churches.")
According to NASA, Stellarium, EarthSky, and many other astronomy sites, Pleiades is a cluster of 7 stars - 6 of which are very bright and can be seen with the naked eye against a black sky, and 1 of which is "HIDDEN" or "MISSING." (This matches the idea of 6 churches still present against the backdrop of the blackness of sin, while the Church of Philadelphia is spared or "Hidden" from "the hour of wrath that's about to come upon the earth.")
Some old Greek legends even consider the missing Sister to be "THE LOST PLEIAD". ("I once was lost but now am found.")
The 6 stars that are visible are often mistaken for the Little Dipper or a "SICKLE." (Coinciding with the Tribulation Saints being martyred by beheading.)
They are a cluster of stars that typically appear in the Heavens in NOVEMBER - with the ancients using them to mark "THE END OF THE HARVEST" by "THE CROSS" with the winter season beginning in the top right quadrant (Dec, Jan, Feb); the spring season (Mar, Apr, May) in the bottom right quadrant; the summer season (Jun, Jul, Aug) in the lower left quadrant; and the autumn season in the upper left quadrant (Sep, Oct, Nov). This places the month of NOVEMBER squarely in THE 11TH HOUR if you were to position these around the circle of a clock. The brightest appearance of the Pleiades is said to be at "MIDNIGHT" or the end of the month of November. ("At MIDNIGHT the cry rang out: The Bridegroom is here! Come out to meet Him!" Matt 25:6)
The timing of Pleiades is considered a "SEASON OF AWAKENING" agriculturally in the Southern hemisphere, where the spring flowers are in bloom, and the stars are considered "HOEING STARS". (Confirmation of the barley harvest? "As it was in the Days of Noah... two men will be in the field, one will be taken, the other will be left. Two women will be grinding at the mill. One will be taken, the other left." Matt 24:40)
Some saw them as "SEED STARS"... as the seeds that were planted in hopes of "A BOUNTIFUL CROP". (Parable of the Sower?)
Other ancient peoples, such as the Celts and Druids, considered them to coincide with the original date of Halloween or All Hallows' Eve in the 11th and 12th centuries, where the celebration of "Samhain" - the early forebearer of Halloween - took place, marking the event with the appearance of the Pleiades "climbing to HIGHEST POINT at MIDNIGHT" in the night sky. At the time, the Julian calendar was not in use and the event fell on the date we now know as Halloween - October 31st. However, had the Cross Quarter celebration calendar still been in use today, the emergence of Pleaides would have originated in the night sky on November 7th (1st day of Tabernacles) and culminated on or near November 21st at MIDNIGHT.
At this time, it was believed that "THE VEIL" dividing "THE LIVING" and "THE DEAD" was at it's thinnest point - and that "THE DEAD" could be "CALLED UP" and brought to life again. (Of course, this would be a satanic imitation of God's Word and His true plan for the Church. But, is it a possible reference to The Dead in Christ rising and the remaining Christians meeting the Lord in the air - the thinnest point?)
The Greek name "Pleiades" means "TO SAIL AWAY". (RAPTURE?)
God spoke to Job stating, "Can you bind the sweet influences of the Pleiades or loose the cords of Orion?" (KJV) Since Pleiades is known to be rising in the Spring, they poetically illustrate God's gift of grace through the Church and loosening of the cords (removal of the Restrainer - HS filled Believers) unleashing stormy weather of adversity (Tribulation) on the earth.
Finally, Pleiades is considered to shine hundreds of times more brightly than our sun. (Jesus said, "Greater works will you do than I have done.")
I'm not saying November 21st at Midnight is the rapture. LET ME BE CLEAR ON THIS POINT. I just think it's interesting that all of this is playing out in the night sky at the exact correct time. Plus, if I'm not mistaken, the month of Cheshvan will end on the 21st/22nd and the Days of Noah for 2017 will be over. (He who made the Pleiades and Orion and changes deep darkness into morning, who also darkens the day into night, who calls the waters of the sea and pours them out on the surface of the earth... the Lord is His Name." Amos 5:8)
It seems like a high watch time, if nothing else - especially since we are quickly coming to the end point of Nov 29, 2017 when the anniversary of the UN Declaration allowing Israel to become a nation will occur. This will bring the 70 year generation to a close and it seems highly unlikely it will be an 80 year generation "as if by strength" for the church, as God must allow 7 years for the time of "Jacob's Trouble." (Unless of course, by this calculation, He comes three years from now - which doesn't seem to make sense or match with any of the major signs we are seeing in 2017.)
Whatever the case, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.
Here's to hoping He's coming soon! Maranatha!
