The Restoration of All Things

ok, I see I was confused by what the article was saying. I do have to admit that there may have been a little confusion by me in general. Following your case, point by point I do see the three harvest evidence, and the plan of restoration. Then I read into you personal opinions when you say "we need to understand with the great shaking about to come as there will be a lot of confusion as to what just happened..and then another time when you said it may be not the way we have expected it" I am totally paraphrasing. It made it seem as if the Spirit-filled living Christian may still be here after this great shaking. Then at the same time in reading to mom what you have posted, I was telling her that we will be "changed" but it is looking like we will be commissioned. So I was holding both a dead in Christ only barley rapture and a both go up barley rapture. Then thinking that those who "knew" Jesus but not following him were to experience the wheat or the grape harvest..

A little clarity


We’ll get to the explanation of some of this within the Kingdom of God thread, but I seems I may have left some confusing statements hanging around so I thought it might be helpful to add a little clarity. Please realize that by providing unproven answers for which I have not laid a solid foundation, you may be more inclined to dismiss them. The kingdom thread will help in this area fairly soon and some evidence may have to be provided in this thread. So, please see my explanation and then stay tuned for the “proof” of the concepts as they develop these two threads.

The confusion is caused by my cryptic comments about post-trib along with my statements about a coming shaking and tribulation not being what we expect, etc… This, combined with my teaching of the three harvests leaves some to wonder if certain believers will experience the “wrath of God.” Of course this doesn’t jive with our understanding that we are not appointed unto wrath and so - confusion results. I will try to de-confuse a bit, but some foundational stuff in the Kingdom thread will need to be completed before I can completely explain.

We are what we are, and part of what we are is what we know. The basic flow of end times events has been so embedded within us that even when we think that we are thinking outside the box, the box still defines the limits of our thought process. We have all been “programmed” (I know that is a harsh word - maybe “conditioned” would be better) to see a 7 year period of time that is full of horrible things happening on the earth. Some people divide this into two sections and say one part is the wrath of satan and other part is the wrath of God. Some will say the entire 7 years is the wrath of God. I think we are very far off in our understanding of this period of time.

So many movies, books, sermons, and conversations have shaped, in our minds, what we believe will happen and so this always forms our starting point when we consider the events about to befall the earth. Sadly, much of that mindset has been the result of the false teachings of dispensationalism, the disgusting doctrine of endless torment or Annihilation, a miscalculation of Daniel’s 70 weeks, misappropriation of pronouns in Daniel 9, a lack of differentiation between the physical and heavenly entities, a confusion of history, and attaching prophecies to the wrong group of people. All of this has prevented us from understanding the process and purpose of the day of the Lord.

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Kingdoms of Man lose authority
Soon, the kingdoms of man will lose their authority.  But they won't give it up without a fight. Like many of you, I am expecting some tumultuous events to occur in the near future. But, my expectation is that they will happen in a way that is totally different than what is expected by the Christian community. I am not just talking about rapture. I am referring to physical events on this earth and spiritual events in heaven. Because of the way things play out, Christianity will be confused about what is happening. As the events take place and do not look as expected, the Christian leaders (shepherds) will lose the confidence of the people in their “churches”. The Christian (flock) will leave the churches and scatter. This is not just a matter of people finding themselves on earth during the “tribulation." Or experience God's wrath.  Most Christians - including most watchers - will not even recognize that they are in the “tribulation”, because events will look so different than expected.

For several years now, God has been calling out a group of people who will be able to take on the role of shepherding this scattered flock. This “remnant’ will be able to explain what is happening to the many people who are confused and scared. Some of you are called to this ministry. Along with explaining the “real tribulation” situation, you will also be bringing the Gospel of Peace as taught in the Restoration thread (or similar), and the Gospel of the Kingdom as taught in the Kingdom thread (or similar). I say “or similar” because I am not insisting that every element of my understanding is correct - we will continue to learn in this area.

Sealing and Resurrection
Prior to these events taking place, there will be a sealing of the barley. And sometime later, we will experience the Barley harvest. This is the first resurrection, which will include the dead(barley) in Christ and those that are alive(barley) and remain. But it will not include the wheat or the grapes. This will confuse many more Christians when they see a resurrection that does not include them. Some will have been prepared by the barley before the event occurs. Until we change our perspective of God, we will see the tribulation as God punishing the inhabitants of the earth. And certainly, there will be massive judgements taking place. But God does not punish for the sake of destruction - but in order to turn people from their sin. Now, we see that people will not repent and so the judgment is fierce. The change of ownership of the kingdoms of man to the kingdoms of God is accompanied by great upheaval. But much of the physical events portrayed in today's prophecy teaching is incorrect and some of it is downright silly.

Kingdom grows
Christ will then establish the Kingdom on earth and it will be administered by the barley. This will start the 1000 year reign, during which many will be added to the barley number and many will come into the kingdom. After the 1000 years, the rest of the Wheat and Grapes will be harvested and the Great White Throne judgment will take place.

Victory
Over the following ages, the kingdom of God will continue to grow and grow until it covers the whole earth.

- - -

We may want to keep in mind that the most learned bible teachers of the first century lacked in their understanding of what the coming of the Messiah looked like. Today, we assume we have it figured out, and many will not move forward with Christ as they insist on the paradigm that is firmly seated in their minds rather than the Kingdom sitting right in front of them.

Until we wash our minds of the old ideas and replace them with solid understandings in the areas of Restoration, Wrath, Tribulation, Rapture, Salvation, and the Kingdom, we simply cannot correctly process the scriptures in these areas. I like to build the foundation first so that you can see the scriptural proof yourself instead of just hearing me tell you. But, I also want to ease the minds of some of you who are concerned about the order to some of this stuff and whether we will be around during the “wrath” of God.

Wrath
I would encourage us to not think about things this way. Many Christians have lived during times of judgement and have had evil wreaked upon them by man and beast and natural disaster. Many have been called to glorious lives and many others have been called to sacrificial deaths. God is glorified in both. We must walk in the faith that God provides to us through the hearing of his voice and submission to it. Be not concerned about tomorrow or what fate might befall you. Today, you could be called to an action that changes your entire life. Today is the day! Live one moment at a time.  Die to self always.  God is able to preserve his people amidst the wrath.  But many, even while being preserved, will be overcome - and thus achieve victory.

The Cost
I mentioned in one recent post that one must really consider the cost of being barley. This is a servant work. It means giving all! I can't oversell that.

We have - especially lately - all pondered the rapture and the heavenly destination and resultant peaceful tranquility that will surround us in the presence of the Lord. But my friends - that is the cart before the horse. We need to be transformed in our mind.

Rom 12:1  Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.
Rom 12:2  And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

Those who are looking forward to escaping tribulation and sitting by while the earth burns below for 7 years have not yet developed the mind of the barley. It is understandable, but it is also time to change that mindset.

Those who have been part of the threads, Hearing God, The Restoration of all Things, and now, The Kingdom of God, are beginning to gain a new understanding that will shape a new hope in the Lord. If the Lord is calling you to these things, then He may be calling you out of your old mindset and into a remnant. If you read these threads and it doesn’t change your heart or move you in a new way - then you may not have that calling. Each of us is called to our own purpose. And each purpose has a place in the plan of God.  And, you may have noticed that with over 400 members, only a small handful have resonated with the message in these threads.  If you see the truth in these threads then you also see that you are in a small company.  This message is for the barley and it does not resonate well with the wheat and the grapes. The ministry is to make the call and to provide understanding. We will not know who the barley are until they are revealed. No one knows.

But, rest assured, if you are called out and harvested as the barley - then you are called to a sacrificial service.  

Joh 15:20  "Remember the word that I said to you, 'A slave is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also.

2Ti 2:11 It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him;
2Ti 2:12 If we endure, we will also reign with Him; ….

For some, this alone will make them discard the message. So attached are they to the hope of “going up as the missiles come down.” That is one way I have heard it expressed. No, brothers and sisters - if you have come to know God in a new way - then you must, in your spirit, also know that we must serve to the end. But we will be sealed. We will endure. We will overcome - by being overcome. Just as Christ overcame, by being led as a sheep to the slaughter.

Is this too much to bare? Can one not digest this? This is not the message of today’s Christianity. Many will not be able to receive this. They will dismiss it under their false understanding of “we are not appointed unto wrath” and other passages. They will hide behind their hope which they confuse with correct teaching. But the fact of the matter is - some are called to death and others are called to life and each must walk according to the faith given them as they hear the word of God. And even now, are we not called to die to ourselves and live for Christ?  This is done one moment at a time as we submit to his Word.  This is training for a greater calling soon to come.

Hopefully, this clears some things up a little - or did I make things worse? Please stay tuned to the Kingdom thread as we continue to shape this understanding.



SK

One key point in this thread was that the Covenant has been assumed to be a peace treaty. My mom's close friend has always agreed or asserted that it is not stated that it is specifically a peace treaty...funny, I seem to have come away with the idea that it was peace treaty (prior to Sk's threads). Have no idea who told me or taught me.

Clears it up SK, but I am gonna have to really sit down and wait on your Kingdom of God thread to see the last 2 harvest AFTER the milleniel reign. No one around me is ready to receive that idea. 3 harvests maybe, but 1000 years until it can be so? I guess man has been this stubborn all along that it just may well take 1000 more years to restore to that point. Restoring makes all the sense in the world.

Gonna see if my local kinko place can take the pdf and print it for me. Gonna give it as a gift to a few brothers and sisters...

Left Behind series did not do us any help then really, except it gave me urgency then to want to understand the Bible more, so that is a good thing.

I've sent it to several family members, and brothers in my Men's group. As you said this is something that most Christians can't chew as they hold onto their own understanding with a death grip, and not allowing God's understanding to shape and conform their minds. My younger brother has been very open to Restoration, others I can see the struggle. I only pray that the Lord prepares me and takes me through the fire, purifying me for service to Him. I've still got a lot of rough edges to burn off and I can only hope that the impossible will be done by God before things change soon.

What I have to say is controversial enough, I want to make sure that what people claim or imply I say is actually what I say, so to clear things up:😀

* I do not teach or believe that we can choose to be the barley or the wheat. We do not even choose to be the grapes.  It is ET and annihilation that claim we can choose these things. 

* I go through great lengths in all my threads to teach:  He is the author and perfecter of our faith. 

* I put in the thread to count the cost because I wanted to express the seriousness of the barley ministry and as soon as people think there may be a distinction in the body of Christ, we start to compare who is who. We start to ask, who am I? But the point was not to say, count the cost and decide. My point was to say, there is a cost and you should realize this before you start saying, I want to be this or that.

* Restoration does not depend on my view of the three harvests.  So, if someone wants to believe differently about the harvests they may certainly do so and still accept restoration. Of course, if they accept that there are three harvests, then they will need to distinguish them somehow.  And if they go down the genetic Israel route - we know they are wrong.

* I do believe in a rapture.  I'm not sure why some people keep implying that I don't believe in a rapture.

* I can't really think of a more encouraging end time message then the salvation of all and the reconciliation of everything back into God. What could be better than that?

* I do trust Jesus to come back for us.


As I have said all along - we must all walk in the faith that is provided to us.

I am so sorry to misrepresent you! I think my tone was harsher than I intended. I had a few minutes to type a quick phone message while people were impatiently waiting for me to finish, and I didn’t go to my usual lengths to make sure things came off nicely. Please forgive me. I was wrong to say I don’t want to debate. I don’t want to and can’t spend much time here, but you’re right that I was unfair to suggest you couldn’t respond. I’m sorry.

I agree that you have said that He is the author and perfecter of our faith and that not everyone should want to be barley. But at the same time, I am reading it as “only the barley are the sons of God”. Did I miss something there? That creation groans for the barley to be revealed so restoration can begin? I am reading these things and thinking that many will read that and be quite discouraged. Yes, God restoring all things is a very encouraging end time message! But... I did understand you to be saying that the rapture is not what we think and we are about to be very confused, that the barley will be sealed and then begin ministry to restore everything else? I guess that’s why I thought you are saying there isn’t a rapture. Could you explain how you see the encouragement of our redemption drawing near?

I see your points witness1 and will try to address them here:

I do believe that the official Sons of God are the barley and that not all believers fall into this category. I make a distinction between the children of God in general and the Official Sons of God. So the children of God certainly includes sons and daughters. Think of Sons of God as a title not a relationship.

However, I do believe that Romans is talking about the revealing of the barley - not the wheat. There are several, perhaps even many, passages that differentiate these groups. And of course, we have three harvests, which represent something. I am open to hearing alternatives. But any alternative that holds genetic Israel or Judah as a special entity would automatically be untrue in my mind - due to everything I discuss in the Kingdom of God thread.

I see your point that people will find this discouraging if they see themselves as the wheat. I’m sure the unbelievers see it as discouraging that they are not the Sons of God either. I don’t want to sound cold and unfeeling, but truth is truth even if it doesn’t make people feel good. I mean this with a soft heart. I think we want people to know truth. Certainly, the message of scripture is one that lifts us up while at the same time inspires us to walk by faith in the spirit. And certainly you can see that much of Christian does not do this. We are saved by grace - but we have different callings. This is not about salvation.

As to the rapture, I say it is different then what many people expect because I think that it is not an instant event. I think the dead rise first and then a little later the alive are changed and join the dead. I explain this all in detail in one of the posts close to the end if the harvest section. Most people think it all happens at once. Also, I think the events leading up to the rapture are very different than people expect and so they may think they have missed a rapture when they have not. But I do believe there will be a rapture. The barley being sealed ahead of time does not preclude the rapture taking place later.

Explaining how I see the encouragement of our redemption drawing near? I think that God expects us all to walk as Paul walked, aspiring to a better resurrection. I find it sad that people would simply settle for being in the wheat. So for me, it is encouraging. To those who don’t care about such things, they also are unlikely to care if they are wheat or barley and they may be glad that they aren’t barley.

I don’t know what I am - and yet I am encouraged about the day approaching. How do we explain that? I might not be in the barley and yet I am still anxious, with the rest of creation, for their revealing - because I know that will begin the process of Christ’s reign and the reverse of the curse!

Does this help?

I can spend more time later - and I know you don’t want to debate - so I am not trying to make you answer questions. I am just providing answers to the questions you asked of me.

Also - don’t worry at all about your earlier post. I can see you didn’t mean to imply anything and I need to learn to be more thick skinned!

love ya, sister.