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Post by Gary on Nov 2, 2017 14:12:41 GMT -6
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Post by kjs on Nov 2, 2017 15:43:08 GMT -6
I have been very surprised recently by comments of some of the church members, that belong to the church -- that I go to.
It is a small Baptist church (it is independent and outside the Southern Baptist) and I would rate it as moderate conservative.
We have -- GASP -- a woman pastor and several woman deacons (we also have a male pastor, majority of deacons are male, and the Music Directory is male).
Any rate, I think that shows we are not your traditional baptist church....
Like I said recently some comments have been heard within the church -- that have me gasping ....
Things Like Jonah was not really swallowed by a fish -- it is just a story.
I was like WHAT ? Even Jesus made direct reference to Jonah being in the belly of the fish -- three days and three nights -- HOW can you claim it is Just a story?
Other areas of concern -- there was no "world wide flood" -- only a localized flood.....
People were not living 600, 700, 800 or more years -- it was simply how they counted the seasons.....
The walls of Jericho -- did not come tumbling down by the blast of horns
Sampson was a myth (the entire story)
I could go on about this, but the church doctrine statement is basically the same as the other Protestant churches
(sole faith, sole scripture...)
Now these "comments" have not come from church leadership .... but still the idea that some people in my church -- are distant themselves from the supernatural side of the bible is troubling to me......
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Post by kjs on Nov 2, 2017 15:57:59 GMT -6
Before someone accuse me of being off topic with my above post....
Let me just say the reformation started off as a few matters to reform within the C church....
From then -- practically every little change -- created another denomination ....
My point is -- seems these "changes are still going on".....
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Post by Natalie on Nov 2, 2017 16:37:01 GMT -6
I saw small changes taking place at our previous church, but it was taking place from the leadership down. Not good changes.
Then we started going to a small, very traditional and conservative church. We have seen changes there also, but those changes include starting 15 minutes earlier so there would be more time in service for prayer and studying what the Bible says about elders to discuss how our church is led.
Changes are still taking place. Because where we are in history, I think probably most change is not good.
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Post by Natalie on Nov 2, 2017 17:31:22 GMT -6
Oh, I just remembered...my pastor is going to take a break from working through Exodus to do a short series on the 5 Solas.
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Post by nana on Nov 2, 2017 17:42:06 GMT -6
We use to go to a Baptist Church.
Got a new preacher and he wouldn't live in the house on the property, he said the caretaker would.
It was decided to take on a huge debt to expand the Church to have a gym, a children's room and other stuff. The Church was debt free before this and was not small in area by any means to begin with. It had a school but was closed/killed.
Some deacons were masons, trunk or treat came in.
The music changed to contemporary.
To many changes for me and hubby, we left.
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Post by sawdy on Nov 2, 2017 18:11:48 GMT -6
I had mentioned to my Pastor about it being 500 years since the reformation and they highlighted that in the worship last Sunday. They also talked about it.
Sometimes my church feels too progressive in our music. I like a balance of both and sometimes there isn't many hymns sung anymore.
My pastor likes to give a message on a passage of scripture and usually we are working through a book of the Bible. Unfortunately, sometimes he doesn't do much research as he did say he wasn't sure why they were buying spices after Jesus died.
My friend has done a good job of invigorating our church through Ladies Bible studies. Attendance seems to be pretty steady and although we aren't attracting newcomers, we are strengthening the relationships of believers that are attending.
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Post by linda on Nov 2, 2017 23:33:42 GMT -6
I just started going to church again a year ago after spending most of my adult life doing my own thing. I think God whacked me upside the head with a 2X4 a few years ago when I suddenly realized that the elitists around the world are trying to form a one world government. That was a huge wake-up call. So after trying to get myself right with God again, I eventually started looking for a church. And I have to say that I was pretty shocked at what I found.
I grew up in a Conservative Baptist church, so that's what I looked for. There are several here where I live. But they had coffee bars and gyms and basketball leagues and other extraneous things. And the music was all new stuff with guitars and drums. And no hymn books, just a screen with the words. I read music, so if I don't know a song, at least I can sing it if I have the music. One church I went to they sang "Holy, Holy, Holy" one Sunday, and I was thrilled because it was an old hymn that I knew. But then they had loud electric guitars and after the first verse they had this interlude with "drums gone wild" and loud clashing cymbals. It just felt so disrespectful to such a reverent hymn that I just about walked out. And yet a part of me felt like I didn't have a right to complain, since I had stayed away for so very long.
I can't say there was anything wrong with the sermons. To my ear, at least, every church I went to was preaching from the Bible. But there was just a whole different feel to it and things felt missing. At the church I grew up in, there was always a gospel message, no matter what the sermon was about, and an altar call at the end of the service. But none of the churches I've been to have them. And they don't seem to have Wednesday night Bible studies anymore. And suddenly I really wanted a church that had them.
Finally, I found a nice small church that actually uses hymn books (and a screen as well) and seems to have a core of very committed Christians and was very welcoming. While they don't have a Wednesday night Bible study, they do have a women's Bible study every week that I'm enjoying.
But I guess what I've been feeling, though, is that churches these days feel very diminished compared to how they felt when I was growing up. There seemed to be a lot more power in them back in the day. For me that was in the 50's and 60's. My mother is 86 and she feels the same way. I think this is a sign of the times we are living in. But it makes me really sad. And it makes me really sad that I waited so long to come back.
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Post by rt on Nov 3, 2017 8:37:23 GMT -6
Great article Jeff! I concur with others here that the church as we know it has reformed, but not in a positive direction.
The need to be "relevant" to the world has robbed many of the power that comes with following the Spirit and walking in Him. My husband and I could write a book about the many churches we have visited and attended over the years. We had a wonderful church back in the 1970's that preached and taught the word, we attended there for 30 years. Over that time poor leadership resulted in several splits, and diminishing power. It seemed that each successive pastor was less and less knowledgeable of the scriptures, relying more and more on the knowledge of men and their books rather than God's Book. We ended up leaving and began a search for a new place where we could use our gifts and talents to serve the body. Boy were we in for a rude awakening, first of all finding a church where we could use our gifts became nearly impossible. Most have hired staff that do everything, few had Sunday school anymore and both my husband and I are happy to teach. Some had small groups, but they were all addicted to "video" series. The preaching was very shallow and we rarely ever heard the gospel presented. There was also very little opportunity to "connect" as a body of believers, it was all very superficial.
In one church we attended I went to the pastor to offer to teach a ladies bible study, after reviewing my study he felt it was too "deep" and that he believed it was better to "keep the cookies on the bottom shelf", yes he actually said that. He also warned me not to encourage relationships among those who attend, which blew me away, his reason was that when people connect there is a greater risk of them bashing the Pastor. Sadly no one signed up to come because the pastor did not promote it. Later I discovered that this man purchased every sermon he preached from an online resource and did not spend time in the word studying himself. Needless to say we left. We finally found a small country church where at least the people were friendly and saw the need to connect with each other, the preaching was okay, but still not much power there. Things were going along okay until they started a building program and that became the focus and agenda of the sermons, so we left and went back to our original home church. We are there now and it is a sad state of affairs, a church that seats 400 has about 80 regular attenders. The preaching is biblical, but again lacking in power. There is such a lethargy and lack of enthusiasm. It is a sinking ship and we talk again about leaving before it goes under. But where to go? There are so few churches in the area that have the power of the Spirit working in them, it is very sad indeed.
I agree with what others have said, it is a sign of the times. The Letters to the churches in Revelation at least to me seem to loosely show a progression into rebellion and apostasy. Ephesus lost their first love, God says that as a result if they fail to repent that their lampstand will be removed, then we see Smyrna suffers persecution, is this God removing the lampstand? Then with Pergamum some who believe in false doctrine creep in, Thyatira shows that false teaching and immorality is tolerated and leads some astray, Sardis shows that the church is dead, it has lost its power and is spiritually asleep, Philidelphia is made up of those who stand firm amidst the degradation of the church, they still have power and keep God's word. These are promised to be kept from the hour of testing, IMO this represents the rapture. Then finally you have Laodicea, who receives no commendation but only condemnation and a call to repent when they are reproved and disciplined by God, this in my opinion represents a call to those tribulation saints.
Lack of love leads to the persecution and the removal of those who hold up the light of God's truth (Lampstand) which leads to false teachers coming in who are then tolerated, which in turn leads people astray into false beliefs and immorality which results in the spiritual death of the church. Those who remain steadfast will be kept from the hour of testing when it is about to come upon the earth, from among the remnant that is left some will overcome when they repent due to the discipline of God when He refines them in the fires of the 70th week.
We are of the same mind of the church at Philadelphia which means brotherly love. We need to hold fast so that we do not succumb to the path of rebellion. We need to persevere and continue to walk in God's word according to His Spirit, staying awake and alert and continue in our first love.
I think as Jeff pointed out that the church today has reached the point of Sardis on the path to rebellion. It has fallen asleep, it has become spiritually irrelevant, and is dying, there are a few left who have persevered who are still found worthy:
It demonstrates how close we are to that hour of testing that is about to come upon the earth, it truly is a sign of the times in which we live.
And it all begins with a loss of our first love, the Love of Christ, our love for Him and His word and for fellow believers .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 14:04:44 GMT -6
I mentioned this document in the Hearing God thread. I would not normally have posted it here, but with this thread and the way some of you are responding, I thought, perhaps it is safe to do so. I will say, this is a difficult document to digest and those who are easily offended should perhaps just skip it. I explained the document in this post (http://unsealed.boards.net/post/15245) if you want some background. The short story is I wrote this in 2004 according to instructions from the Lord, but you should read the longer story in the linked post to get a better feel for it. At the time I wrote it, I sent it to 4000 churches in America. Not a single church responded. Some of you, after reading it, may say you understand why. Please read it knowing my heart from the other posts you have seen from me. You may disagree with some particulars, but see if the message within says something to you. My daughter recently asked if I could send her a copy of this. So when I was digging it up today to send it to her and also noticing this reformation thread and the content of the thread, I thought, Ok, Father, let's give it another go. I then realized, wait a minute - It is my birthday today, [ that's right 53  ) ], It is exactly 13 years to the day when I first sent this message to the 4000 churches. Here is the document: This is My House - Last Call to the Church.pdf (211.75 KB) |
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Post by rt on Nov 3, 2017 14:49:52 GMT -6
I mentioned this document in the Hearing God thread. I would not normally have posted it here, but with this thread and the way some of you are responding, I thought, perhaps it is safe to do so. I will say, this is a difficult document to digest and those who are easily offended should perhaps just skip it. I explained the document in this post (http://unsealed.boards.net/post/15245) if you want some background. The short story is I wrote this in 2004 according to instructions from the Lord, but you should read the longer story in the linked post to get a better feel for it. At the time I wrote it, I sent it to 4000 churches in America. Not a single church responded. Some of you, after reading it, may say you understand why. Please read it knowing my heart from the other posts you have seen from me. You may disagree with some particulars, but see if the message within says something to you. My daughter recently asked if I could send her a copy of this. So when I was digging it up today to send it to her and also noticing this reformation thread and the content of the thread, I thought, Ok, Father, let's give it another go. I then realized, wait a minute - It is my birthday today, [ that's right 53 ) ], It is exactly 13 years to the day when I first sent this message to the 4000 churches. Here is the document: This part is so true: I would agree that Christianity has become "religion" to many people today. You are not the first to warn about this, I have a book that was written by a former Pastor of the church I now attend, and he accurately predicted in astounding detail what we are seeing now in the church back in the 1979. Thanks for sharing your essay. |
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Post by linda on Nov 3, 2017 16:19:42 GMT -6
silentknight, I was a little startled to have the church equated with Mystery Babylon. Maybe the catholic church. But then, there are a lot of denominations now embracing the catholic church.
But what do I know? I just know that 40 years ago, in my small church in a small town, you could feel the Spirit moving. Nowadays, maybe not so much. It feels like the power is gone. Maybe if I had been going to church all those years, it would have been so gradual that I wouldn't even have noticed it. But it seems really stark to me. And I'm hearing others say the same thing.
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Post by Natalie on Nov 3, 2017 16:22:00 GMT -6
Most of the time it is gradual.
And you are told, "If you don't like it, then you can go somewhere else."
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 16:48:08 GMT -6
silentknight, I was a little startled to have the church equated with Mystery Babylon. Maybe the catholic church. But then, there are a lot of denominations now embracing the catholic church. But what do I know? I just know that 40 years ago, in my small church in a small town, you could feel the Spirit moving. Nowadays, maybe not so much. It feels like the power is gone. Maybe if I had been going to church all those years, it would have been so gradual that I wouldn't even have noticed it. But it seems really stark to me. And I'm hearing others say the same thing. Thanks for your comment linda. I can offer some comfort by saying it is the religion of Christianity to which I am referring. Not the church. That is why this is a call for the true church to come out of the religion. Does that help? I believe the word of Christ in that the church built upon the rock (Jesus) will withstand the gates of hell. But it I understand that it can be hard to differentiate. Wheat and tares I expect. |
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karen
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Post by karen on Nov 3, 2017 20:48:30 GMT -6
Thank you @silentknight for your document: This is My House - Last Call to the Church.pdf It is very thought provoking. This particular statement has really challenged me: "Once interpreted, the word is then sent on to the body where it is applied. That is, the word is acted (or not acted) upon. We preach a message, teach a lesson, do something, or do nothing, but we act upon the heard, translated, and interpreted word. Of course, the body has its own problems. There are issues of self-control, temptation, laziness, and gluttony. To mention a few."
There is no doubt that we are called to pray for and share the gospel with unbelievers. In the past I believed that I needed to cultivate a relationship over a long period of time with an unsaved person, let Jesus 'shine through' me so to speak, and be prepared with an answer for the 'hope within'. I always thought I had time on my side. However these days, I feel a broken heart for the lost and an urgency to share the gospel. I really believe I am hearing God tell me to act...open my mouth and share! I recently joined advocate681 for a 3 day fasting and prayer time for specific unsaved people in our lives. God is very faithful and the very next day 2 of the people I was praying for, came over to my house for lunch, (at their request!  ), sadly however, I didn't get up the nerve to talk about the gospel. I failed to allow what I knew to do in my spirit to take action in my body, I gave in to fear. Your statement above, really made that clear to me, and I am asking our Father for forgiveness, more opportunities and courage to use my mouth to share His beautiful gospel. |
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) ], It is exactly 13 years to the day when I first sent this message to the 4000 churches.
), sadly however, I didn't get up the nerve to talk about the gospel. I failed to allow what I knew to do in my spirit to take action in my body, I gave in to fear. Your statement above, really made that clear to me, and I am asking our Father for forgiveness, more opportunities and courage to use my mouth to share His beautiful gospel.