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Post by brad on Aug 20, 2017 11:47:53 GMT -6
Ok, maybe I will be mixing metaphor with literal here, but what about this: I just checked stelarium. Virgo is in the sky during the day right now. She is not visible to us at night, unlike Draco, of which people here tell me it is always visible in the sky (I am assuming, both day and night sky, rotating around like north star).... Perhaps the Birth is being confirmed to be a fall event when the Sun is where it is and the Moon, and Draco which is always there in the night sky means just that: ready to devour as we leave this planet, but the key is the Birth sign.. We will be launched straight up into the Heavens (where this Draco cluster is) and not toward the East or West wherever Virgo happens to be... Love the way you put it... We will be launched straight up into the Heavens
Got me going on that one! I live in southern California, and Virgo is still visible in the early night sky... and it will be for a few more weeks.... Not sure about Draco.... but if that's where we are being launched to...
I'm ready for launch!
Got to go to work.... Thanks for giving me something great to think about while I'm working! |
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Post by gary777 on Aug 20, 2017 11:57:05 GMT -6
Ok, maybe I will be mixing metaphor with literal here, but what about this: I just checked stelarium. Virgo is in the sky during the day right now. She is not visible to us at night, unlike Draco, of which people here tell me it is always visible in the sky (I am assuming, both day and night sky, rotating around like north star).... Perhaps the Birth is being confirmed to be a fall event when the Sun is where it is and the Moon, and Draco which is always there in the night sky means just that: ready to devour as we leave this planet, but the key is the Birth sign.. We will be launched straight up into the Heavens (where this Draco cluster is) and not toward the East or West wherever Virgo happens to be... You have to be looking just after sundown and the first "star/wandering star" visible is always Jupiter/Zedek then as it gets dark enough to see Spica Virgo moves toward the horizon and below. This summer I remember watching Orion "peek" up from the East and then Leo and finally Virgo and now on 8/20/2017 they are all headed to Jerusalem for "The Great Sign in Heaven." I count myself blessed to be on this journey. I wasn't the first to discover the sign, I didn't seek fame or fortune but to do the will of my Father in Heaven. As we experience the eclipse tomorrow, I feel that it will be a turning point. It feels to me in my limited human vision that what we have discovered was the Most High God giving us a peek into the events about to unfold. If we were supposed to know fully every detail we would by now, collectively imagine how much time we have dedicated to understanding the meaning of this sign and in the process getting to know our Creator and His ways so much better. I personally see the dragon as the G-7 and the dragon in the sky "To me" is still invisible to human vision. "To me" meaning IDK even after thousands of hours researching the whole story. Again "To me" until the 7 Thunders of Revelation chapter 10 sound and break the 7 seals, "To me" it is still cryptic by design. Remember the 1/3 fallen angels are trying their hardest to figure this cryptic puzzle out and only the Most High God knows the beginning from the end. |
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Post by mike on Aug 20, 2017 12:24:22 GMT -6
Even tho Yardstick shot my theory full of holes a few pages back, I still wouldn't rule out this being a "supernatural event" (not arguing this one, in fact at first I was like "what the #@$& 'heck' no way I'm wrong! My pride was quickly checked and I thank my brother for caring enough to research and organize a response based on truth!)
Just throwing this out there and if it makes zero sense, I'm 100% ok with it, just give me a quick (Mike you're way off) 🙂 Is it possible John did see the Dragon in the stars, meaning Satan? But if it was in the same vain as Yardstick notes that John was saying "stars" could it be those stars were some UFO type of thing where John didn't fully understand how to explain them? I mean he does clearly call the demons or fallen angels stars too and we know they aren't literal stars.
We all seem to want to know where the red dragon is, so this came to mind. Similarly I often wonder what John tried to explain in Rev 9:7 describing the locusts, looking like horses with faces of men. I mean what did he really see? Are these demonic entities, nephilim, or did he really see giant locusts that looked like horses, etc.? (<<Rhetorical) Similarly Did he really see a constellation, stars or was he "doing his best to describe something for our time that he'd never seen or could imagine
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Post by gary777 on Aug 20, 2017 12:33:31 GMT -6
Even tho Yardstick shot my theory full of holes a few pages back, I still wouldn't rule out this being a "supernatural event" (not arguing this one, in fact at first I was like "what the #@$& 'heck' no way I'm wrong! My pride was quickly checked and I thank my brother for caring enough to research and organize a response based on truth!) Just throwing this out there and if it makes zero sense, I'm 100% ok with it, just give me a quick (Mike you're way off) 🙂 Is it possible John did see the Dragon in the stars, meaning Satan? But if it was in the same vain as Yardstick notes that John was saying "stars" could it be those stars were some UFO type of thing where John didn't fully understand how to explain them? I mean he does clearly call the demons or fallen angels stars too and we know they aren't literal stars. We all seem to want to know where the red dragon is, so this came to mind. Similarly I often wonder what John tried to explain in Rev 9:7 describing the locusts, looking like horses with faces of men. I mean what did he really see? Are these demonic entities, nephilim, or did he really see giant locusts that looked like horses, etc.? (<<Rhetorical) Similarly Did he really see a constellation, stars or was he "doing his best to describe something for our time that he'd never seen or could imagine I think John saw things that mankind has yet to invent words for. I also think mankind is about to see some creatures that will need new names to describe them. We will soon see. |
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Post by MissusMack08 on Aug 20, 2017 12:41:45 GMT -6
This may be it!! Makes soooo much sense to me. Latest video from Daniel Valles. Watch from beginning to about 32 minutes when he starts preaching (not that I'm discouraging the preaching part, but that's when the new info stops).
Red Dragon Eclipse
This explains the "Behold! a great red dragon...!" IT'S THE ECLIPSE!!! He explains how it historically was viewed as a dragon eating the sun and other historical aspects. As well as how Draco, Serpens, and Hydra are all the dragon as well, just different aspects. Before watching this video I was considering Serpens again and wondering if somehow Draco and Serpens could both be part of the Sign just different aspects. Like Draco represents the 1/3 stars but Serpens represents the dragon lying in wait for the child.
I'm so pumped!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 13:49:32 GMT -6
This may be it!! Makes soooo much sense to me. Latest video from Daniel Valles. Watch from beginning to about 32 minutes when he starts preaching (not that I'm discouraging the preaching part, but that's when the new info stops). Red Dragon Eclipse This explains the "Behold! a great red dragon...!" IT'S THE ECLIPSE!!! He explains how it historically was viewed as a dragon eating the sun and other historical aspects. As well as how Draco, Serpens, and Hydra are all the dragon as well, just different aspects. Before watching this video I was considering Serpens again and wondering if somehow Draco and Serpens could both be part of the Sign just different aspects. Like Draco represents the 1/3 stars but Serpens represents the dragon lying in wait for the child. I'm so pumped! Just watched it. Makes VERY MUCH sense IMO! We can hear the footsteps of our Messiah..... |
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Post by MissusMack08 on Aug 20, 2017 15:52:16 GMT -6
My husband mentioned something to me today that I'd never heard before. He said during total solar eclipses it is sometimes possible to see what are called "Shadow Snakes." Here is an article that describes them. I'm not sure they are related to the dragon, but snakes and serpents are certainly symbols of the Enemy.
Source: Rudi Keller, "During Eclipse, 'Shadow Snakes' May Slither," Columbia Daily Tribune, 15 August 2017, www.columbiatribune.com/news/20170815/during-eclipse-shadow-snakes-may-slither
Weird! Hopefully someone gets them on camera. |
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Post by MissusMack08 on Aug 20, 2017 16:26:21 GMT -6
Hi MissusMack, thanks for commenting! In the video of the Dragon of Revelation 12, the tail of Cauda Serpens is extended by 5 moving objects to make a large Drakon, or snake, which is right at Zedek as it leaves Virgo on 15 October, and so it is exactly present to threaten Zedek as it leaves the womb. I believe the "womb" area of Virgo is subjective, in other words there are numerous drawings of where the womb is imagined to be. Classical stick figures such as that first published by Alexandre Ruelle date back to the 1700's, and there is less subjectivity, which is why I favor using the crossing of the line from Spica to Kappa Virginis to represent the birth of Zedek. Conception per se is not mentioned in Rev 12, and is not a part of the Heavenly Sign itself. That said, many have defined conception by Zedek entering the Woman using Stellarium. Stellarium leaves out Theta Viriginis however, and this leads to an earlier "conception". The classic stick figure of Alexandre Ruelle includes Theta Virginis, as does the online planetarium at Neave.com. If Theta Virginis is included in the stick figure, then Zedek does not enter the Woman until December 17,18 which leads to an exact gestational period of 280 days to labor on 23 September. The fact that Zedek is birthed 3 weeks after labor on 15 October is not an issue for me as John does not indicate the length of time from labor to birth.....I don't make too much of the idea of conception and gestation as John mentions neither, and I don't think his description is obligated to exactly match what happens in a normal pregnancy. It is interesting that UNSC 2334 occurred on 23 December 2016, exactly 9 months prior to labor, and Amona was evacuated on 18 December, in the window 9 months prior to "labor", and the French 70 nation peace initiative was on 15 January, exactly 9 months prior to Zedek leaving Virgo on 15 October. The comet may or may not represent conception.....I used the entry of Zedek crossing into the classical stick figure of Virgo by crossing the line from Spica to Theta Virginis. That said, I am focused on the signs mentioned by John, and avoid the speculative issues of conception and gestation. If we accept the use of the classical stick figure of Virgo, then the sign of the Dragon could very well be represented by an extended tail of Cauda Serpens which is only present for 4 days right at the time that Zedek is leaving Virgo. The extended tail is likely not unique, but the timing is what is important here as I mentioned in a previous post... Just my thoughts, they could be completely wrong! But if we get an agreement to divide the Land around October 15th, then I believe the Dragon will be validated! I don't have any astronomy software (I'm on an iPad and what I found online was difficult to use) so I'll take your word for it with the various lines that could be drawn from different stars. Good work putting it all together! I'm just trying to understand everything as a whole picture. And a consistent whole picture. So in this case, we have two different "whole" pictures. But yes, the conception and gestation are speculative. I'm still having trouble with Serpens being the Sign with the addition of the five horns in October. This being with the sign itself. Serpens is part of Ophiuchus but the added horns are in Virgo. With the woman sign, the wandering stars must be in Virgo near her head to be counted. And they are specifically called stars; the moon and sun are not counted. It seems inconsistent to me that then all of these planets plus the moon and sun would then become the horns missing from Serpens. It it seems more straightforward to me that Bootes is the 10 horns. However, I think its possible that all three serpent constellations are depicted in the Rev 12 text: Draco: Great red dragon, tails sweeps 1/3 of stars Hydra: having 7 heads Serpens: fights with Michael since Corona Borealis and Bootes are near both Draco and caput Serpens, they could be the 7 crowns and 10 horns for both. Hydra was known as a multi-headed serpent and is found along the equatorial ecliptic (is that what it's called?) and perhaps those crazy serpent lines that Whatif pointed out being seen on the ground is why ancients believed that a dragon (in this case a multi-headed dragon) ate the sun during an eclipse. where specifically the 7 heads are, if they are represented in the sky, I'm not sure, other than according to Daniel Valles, there are 7 stars in Draco's head. Though this is not what is traditionally depicted. I think some of the stars are binary, but that wouldn't be visible from the ground. Again, I don't have a way to really confirm that apart from going outside and looking for Draco to see how many stars I can see around his head. |
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Post by brad on Aug 20, 2017 17:14:40 GMT -6
More great thinking here missus! All three... serpins,Hydra,Draco... Hmnnn...wow!
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Post by Connie on Aug 20, 2017 18:05:25 GMT -6
I've read through most of this thread and there are some awesome theories. But--
Woke this morning with this thought-- would the baby see the dragon? (if you go with the idea that the body of Christ is the child about to be born)
If the baby is all safe and warm and about to be birthed out of here right up to the throne, would the baby inside the womb know or understand or see a red dragon standing around licking it's chops?
In other words, perhaps those who are still here on this earth after the baby departs will get the full understanding of the sign of the red dragon.
Just a thought but it could explain why there's no clear understanding of this next sign just yet.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 18:49:16 GMT -6
Hi MissusMack, thanks for commenting! In the video of the Dragon of Revelation 12, the tail of Cauda Serpens is extended by 5 moving objects to make a large Drakon, or snake, which is right at Zedek as it leaves Virgo on 15 October, and so it is exactly present to threaten Zedek as it leaves the womb. I believe the "womb" area of Virgo is subjective, in other words there are numerous drawings of where the womb is imagined to be. Classical stick figures such as that first published by Alexandre Ruelle date back to the 1700's, and there is less subjectivity, which is why I favor using the crossing of the line from Spica to Kappa Virginis to represent the birth of Zedek. Conception per se is not mentioned in Rev 12, and is not a part of the Heavenly Sign itself. That said, many have defined conception by Zedek entering the Woman using Stellarium. Stellarium leaves out Theta Viriginis however, and this leads to an earlier "conception". The classic stick figure of Alexandre Ruelle includes Theta Virginis, as does the online planetarium at Neave.com. If Theta Virginis is included in the stick figure, then Zedek does not enter the Woman until December 17,18 which leads to an exact gestational period of 280 days to labor on 23 September. The fact that Zedek is birthed 3 weeks after labor on 15 October is not an issue for me as John does not indicate the length of time from labor to birth.....I don't make too much of the idea of conception and gestation as John mentions neither, and I don't think his description is obligated to exactly match what happens in a normal pregnancy. It is interesting that UNSC 2334 occurred on 23 December 2016, exactly 9 months prior to labor, and Amona was evacuated on 18 December, in the window 9 months prior to "labor", and the French 70 nation peace initiative was on 15 January, exactly 9 months prior to Zedek leaving Virgo on 15 October. The comet may or may not represent conception.....I used the entry of Zedek crossing into the classical stick figure of Virgo by crossing the line from Spica to Theta Virginis. That said, I am focused on the signs mentioned by John, and avoid the speculative issues of conception and gestation. If we accept the use of the classical stick figure of Virgo, then the sign of the Dragon could very well be represented by an extended tail of Cauda Serpens which is only present for 4 days right at the time that Zedek is leaving Virgo. The extended tail is likely not unique, but the timing is what is important here as I mentioned in a previous post... Just my thoughts, they could be completely wrong! But if we get an agreement to divide the Land around October 15th, then I believe the Dragon will be validated! I don't have any astronomy software (I'm on an iPad and what I found online was difficult to use) so I'll take your word for it with the various lines that could be drawn from different stars. Good work putting it all together! I'm just trying to understand everything as a whole picture. And a consistent whole picture. So in this case, we have two different "whole" pictures. But yes, the conception and gestation are speculative. I'm still having trouble with Serpens being the Sign with the addition of the five horns in October. This being with the sign itself. Serpens is part of Ophiuchus but the added horns are in Virgo. With the woman sign, the wandering stars must be in Virgo near her head to be counted. And they are specifically called stars; the moon and sun are not counted. It seems inconsistent to me that then all of these planets plus the moon and sun would then become the horns missing from Serpens. It it seems more straightforward to me that Bootes is the 10 horns. However, I think its possible that all three serpent constellations are depicted in the Rev 12 text: Draco: Great red dragon, tails sweeps 1/3 of stars Hydra: having 7 heads Serpens: fights with Michael since Corona Borealis and Bootes are near both Draco and caput Serpens, they could be the 7 crowns and 10 horns for both. Hydra was known as a multi-headed serpent and is found along the equatorial ecliptic (is that what it's called?) and perhaps those crazy serpent lines that Whatif pointed out being seen on the ground is why ancients believed that a dragon (in this case a multi-headed dragon) ate the sun during an eclipse. where specifically the 7 heads are, if they are represented in the sky, I'm not sure, other than according to Daniel Valles, there are 7 stars in Draco's head. Though this is not what is traditionally depicted. I think some of the stars are binary, but that wouldn't be visible from the ground. Again, I don't have a way to really confirm that apart from going outside and looking for Draco to see how many stars I can see around his head. The good thing is that there are some good theories out there, and we each favor one or the other for good reasons! The Dragon sign is not a deal breaker in the sense that the Woman in Labor is.....we are looking at the same place at the same time roughly....it is a confirming sign. I think it is John's way of telling us that we are indeed looking in the right place at the right time....he is directing us to look at a specific section of the heavens at a specific time, and so with a good Dragon, whichever one it is, we can be assured that yes, we are not off our rockers. |
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Post by MissusMack08 on Aug 20, 2017 19:37:00 GMT -6
I've read through most of this thread and there are some awesome theories. But-- Woke this morning with this thought-- would the baby see the dragon? (if you go with the idea that the body of Christ is the child about to be born) If the baby is all safe and warm and about to be birthed out of here right up to the throne, would the baby inside the womb know or understand or see a red dragon standing around licking it's chops? In other words, perhaps those who are still here on this earth after the baby departs will get the full understanding of the sign of the red dragon. Just a thought but it could explain why there's no clear understanding of this next sign just yet. That's entirely possible since we have yet to really confirm the dragon. As many others have speculated before, I suspect we will see the literal dragon in heaven just as the war is starting. But as far as the astronomical sign, we will have to just wait for it, if we get to see it at all. I have a feeling everything is going to become very clear over the next month (assuming the rapture doesn't occur tomorrow!). |
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Post by MissusMack08 on Aug 20, 2017 19:40:29 GMT -6
The good thing is that there are some good theories out there, and we each favor one or the other for good reasons! The Dragon sign is not a deal breaker in the sense that the Woman in Labor is.....we are looking at the same place at the same time roughly....it is a confirming sign. I think it is John's way of telling us that we are indeed looking in the right place at the right time....he is directly us to look at a specific section of the heavens at a specific time, and so with a good Dragon, whichever one it is, we can be assured that yes, we are not off our rockers. Thank you, Sam for being so gracious! I hope I have come across gracious and not as a pushy, know-it-all as I sometimes do... I have tried not be, but I tend to get a little excited... Forgive me if it was not a good effort. |
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Post by socalexile on Aug 20, 2017 19:41:49 GMT -6
This may be it!! Makes soooo much sense to me. Latest video from Daniel Valles. Watch from beginning to about 32 minutes when he starts preaching (not that I'm discouraging the preaching part, but that's when the new info stops). Red Dragon Eclipse This explains the "Behold! a great red dragon...!" IT'S THE ECLIPSE!!! He explains how it historically was viewed as a dragon eating the sun and other historical aspects. As well as how Draco, Serpens, and Hydra are all the dragon as well, just different aspects. Before watching this video I was considering Serpens again and wondering if somehow Draco and Serpens could both be part of the Sign just different aspects. Like Draco represents the 1/3 stars but Serpens represents the dragon lying in wait for the child. I'm so pumped! No time to watch it tonight, does he at least cite a source for this? Revelation 12 doesn't mention the Dragon eating the sun. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 19:47:27 GMT -6
The good thing is that there are some good theories out there, and we each favor one or the other for good reasons! The Dragon sign is not a deal breaker in the sense that the Woman in Labor is.....we are looking at the same place at the same time roughly....it is a confirming sign. I think it is John's way of telling us that we are indeed looking in the right place at the right time....he is directly us to look at a specific section of the heavens at a specific time, and so with a good Dragon, whichever one it is, we can be assured that yes, we are not off our rockers. Thank you, Sam for being so gracious! I hope I have come across gracious and not as a pushy, know-it-all as I sometimes do... I have tried not be, but I tend to get a little excited... Forgive me if it was not a good effort. You are perfectly gracious, this is a "discussion" board after all  |
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