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Post by MissusMack08 on Aug 19, 2017 15:26:48 GMT -6
I agree with your issues here... 1- Nowhere in the bible do we find how to interpret this.... when does the pregnancy start and stop... lines... no lines... same with the birth..... looks like we just don't know for sure the day or hour... Hmmmn..... Great thinking here! Let me throw another wrench in the works here. This is just my own personal opinion, but I think there are 2 things going on here. one is the rapture, and the other is the emergence of the antichrist directly after the rapture. at the risk of being excommunicated for even suggesting this... I think it likely Jupiter is not what it first looks like... rather it's the Antichrist forming. Logically it would go like this. 1-February 5 2017, Jupiter starts retrograde low in the womb where normal pregnancies take place... conception day. 2- Just as the real anti-christ will mimic the real messiah... showing wonders etc... this will likely be the sign the antichrist will later show to prove he is the real deal... 3 exactly 280 days after conception, November 12, 2017, Jupiter has a conjunction with Venus just like the bethlehem star did.... again, mimicking the real deal. So where are we if Jupiter is the Antichrist?  ? Short answer (cause we are going to the Harvest Crusade soon)... I believe it is something not quite as easy to see... With a magnitude of 7.77....The Asteroid Vesta!.... More on this later, but it just always seems to show up at all the right times and places... On September 23, it is right at the Sun... (the Fiery red Dragon??? Standing ready to devour??? ( look closely at the picture... Vesta is in the red hash lines) Just an opinion of mine... not dogmatic about it... in fact I'm just getting excited that one way or another... we will find out soon! Congrats on the new Watcher Status!!!!! Thanks! Lol. That's very interesting! Is there a thread on the discussion board more about this? I'm having trouble reconciling the verse... "and her Child was caught up to God and His throne" if Jupiter is the Antichrist. Are you saying Jupiter would mean both? I looked a little into Vesta... interesting that it is named after the virgin Roman goddess of home and hearth. Maybe the comet will somehow overshadow the rest of the Sign at some point and produce its own little asteroid that hits the earth... It's just driving me crazy not knowing for sure about the Dragon sign when the Woman sign is so clear. I still don't understand the purpose of the Dragon sign if it's not visible yet. |
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Post by whatif on Aug 19, 2017 16:40:46 GMT -6
Yes. I think my point in general is there are some consistency problems here. Its need to be literal or not at all, not a mixture of both. If the retrograde is the start, then the comet meant nothing and there's no way to say when the exit occurs because the entrance was ambiguous. I'm having trouble with saying "if Jupiter crosses this certain line" then it means conception but "when it crosses that certain line" it means nothing, or vice versa. There are either lines or there are no lines. There are either specific dates or there are no specific dates. at the risk of being excommunicated for even suggesting this... I think it likely Jupiter is not what it first looks like... rather it's the Antichrist forming. No risk of excommunication here for that, brad! We want to learn, and if there are more things to consider about the sign, we definitely want to hear it so we can consider all angles! |
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Post by whatif on Aug 19, 2017 16:49:50 GMT -6
My husband mentioned something to me today that I'd never heard before. He said during total solar eclipses it is sometimes possible to see what are called "Shadow Snakes." Here is an article that describes them. I'm not sure they are related to the dragon, but snakes and serpents are certainly symbols of the Enemy.
Source: Rudi Keller, "During Eclipse, 'Shadow Snakes' May Slither," Columbia Daily Tribune, 15 August 2017, www.columbiatribune.com/news/20170815/during-eclipse-shadow-snakes-may-slither
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2017 16:56:17 GMT -6
My friend Daniel Matson has the same view, re Draco. The issue with Draco is how does it threaten the birth of the man-child? It is nowhere near the woman in labor.....in the north sky, and is always there, not unique in the normal sense...so, I am stumped as to how to connect Draco fall 2017 to the Woman in Labor and Birth fall 2017. I believe in one of the videos I posted earlier, maybe the second one, Daniel Valles addresses the nearness issue: that if you look at the whole picture of constellations and scale them down to human size, Draco appears to be only 8 feet away from the woman, proportionally. If the Dragon needs to appear to be threatening the woman, how does Serpens do that? If you address this in the video, I apologize. I intend to watch your video again after posting this reply. One issue I have with your dragon interpretation is that it doesn't occur until October, which implies the birth doesn't occur until Jupiter leaves Virgo, not just the womb area of Virgo. This would make the pregnancy last way beyond a normal pregnancy (44 weeks from menstrual period is the max and not considered safe beyond 42). If we hold to the pregnancy symbolism consistently: the conception occurred around November 18th (conception comet leaves Virgo womb and Jupiter enters); 38 weeks FROM CONCEPTION was last week—week of August 6-12 (note** normal pregnancy is 40 weeks from last menstrual period, 38 weeks from conception); 40 weeks from conception (42 weeks from period) is next week of Aug 20-26; and 42 weeks from conception (44 weeks from period) is week of Sept 3-9, when it appears Jupiter leaves Virgo's womb. September 23 is beyond safe human gestation. Keeping with the pregnancy symbolism, I cannot see anything occurring in regards to either these signs occurring after Sept 23. If it does, then we need to scrap the whole pregnancy concept because it's not consistent. Or the comet doesn't mean anything and a different date is needed for conception. But it you are correct in the time will tell us. Either God will give us further revelation, the signs will come and go, or something will happen. Hi MissusMack, thanks for commenting! In the video of the Dragon of Revelation 12, the tail of Cauda Serpens is extended by 5 moving objects to make a large Drakon, or snake, which is right at Zedek as it leaves Virgo on 15 October, and so it is exactly present to threaten Zedek as it leaves the womb. I believe the "womb" area of Virgo is subjective, in other words there are numerous drawings of where the womb is imagined to be. Classical stick figures such as that first published by Alexandre Ruelle date back to the 1700's, and there is less subjectivity, which is why I favor using the crossing of the line from Spica to Kappa Virginis to represent the birth of Zedek. Conception per se is not mentioned in Rev 12, and is not a part of the Heavenly Sign itself. That said, many have defined conception by Zedek entering the Woman using Stellarium. Stellarium leaves out Theta Viriginis however, and this leads to an earlier "conception". The classic stick figure of Alexandre Ruelle includes Theta Virginis, as does the online planetarium at Neave.com. If Theta Virginis is included in the stick figure, then Zedek does not enter the Woman until December 17,18 which leads to an exact gestational period of 280 days to labor on 23 September. The fact that Zedek is birthed 3 weeks after labor on 15 October is not an issue for me as John does not indicate the length of time from labor to birth.....I don't make too much of the idea of conception and gestation as John mentions neither, and I don't think his description is obligated to exactly match what happens in a normal pregnancy. It is interesting that UNSC 2334 occurred on 23 December 2016, exactly 9 months prior to labor, and Amona was evacuated on 18 December, in the window 9 months prior to "labor", and the French 70 nation peace initiative was on 15 January, exactly 9 months prior to Zedek leaving Virgo on 15 October. The comet may or may not represent conception.....I used the entry of Zedek crossing into the classical stick figure of Virgo by crossing the line from Spica to Theta Virginis. That said, I am focused on the signs mentioned by John, and avoid the speculative issues of conception and gestation. If we accept the use of the classical stick figure of Virgo, then the sign of the Dragon could very well be represented by an extended tail of Cauda Serpens which is only present for 4 days right at the time that Zedek is leaving Virgo. The extended tail is likely not unique, but the timing is what is important here as I mentioned in a previous post... Just my thoughts, they could be completely wrong! But if we get an agreement to divide the Land around October 15th, then I believe the Dragon will be validated! |
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Post by gary777 on Aug 19, 2017 23:32:18 GMT -6
Worth watching for sure
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Post by socalexile on Aug 19, 2017 23:57:30 GMT -6
One of the core problems in his theory is that he shows the heads and horns all as certain stars, while ignoring others (he even counts one that is a part of Virgo), and without any real pattern differentiating each other than it makes a line. It seems stretched IMO. Heads are heads, horns are horns, and diadems are diadems (which the text days are on the heads), they're differentiated by John for a reason. Other than that, what he points out as far as the symmetry of the feast days between 2017 and 2024 is interesting. He's still wrong on Post-trib though.  |
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Post by socalexile on Aug 20, 2017 1:09:12 GMT -6
After looking at the text, the word ἰδού, often translated as "behold!" is the key to this I think. Going back to Thayer's lexicon at BLB, it can be used to draw attention to something in general, but also to indicate "something sure yet unexpected....when a thing that is specified seems impossible yet occurs", Since it doesn't occur in the first two verses, I think it's likely that this is indeed drawing us to something unexpected or seemingly impossible that isn't there yet. This word is used quite a bit on the New Testament any times to draw attention to a important or amazing thing. I take it that it is used in much of the same way as " look, what happened was..." as a way of telling you to pay attention. Check out it's uses here. This lexicon's definition: "look!, suddenly, now; here, there; this particle is used to enliven a Hebrew narrative style, by marking the change of a scene, or emphasize some detail or idea, and is not always translated" Biblehub Again, if John was simply saying "look!" then it should occur in verse 1, like it does many times in Revelation, yet John excluded it there. Instead he calls it a "great sign"; where the Dragon is simply called a sign. There's some other nuances with v.3 that I'm looking at, but the heads, horns and diadems may not be part of the heavenly display, only that the Dragon in the heavens possesses them in the sense of ownership in general (like how I own my car). And no, I see no evidence for Planet X being a part of this - especially since some people expect it. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 5:21:55 GMT -6
Don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility, that the sign of the dragon is a direct manifestation of the enemy in the sky.
Especially because no celestial bodies are mentioned in Rev 12 in conjunction with the dragon.
Just a thought...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 5:59:55 GMT -6
One of the core problems in his theory is that he shows the heads and horns all as certain stars, while ignoring others (he even counts one that is a part of Virgo), and without any real pattern differentiating each other than it makes a line. It seems stretched IMO. Heads are heads, horns are horns, and diadems are diadems (which the text days are on the heads), they're differentiated by John for a reason. Other than that, what he points out as far as the symmetry of the feast days between 2017 and 2024 is interesting. He's still wrong on Post-trib though. Actually the heads and diadems are the stars of Caput Serpens, head of the serpent, and Corona Borealis, Northern Crown. The Drakon, or Dragon, is the stars of the tail, Cauda Serpens, and an extension joined by 5 moving objects in a line, Saturn, Mercury, Sun, Venus and Mars,........there are no stars of Virgo at all, I am not sure where you get that from the video! I have a pre-wrath outlook, not post-trib, but do not debate it on this site, however if you email me am happy to discuss it! Shalom! |
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Post by socalexile on Aug 20, 2017 7:15:52 GMT -6
One of the core problems in his theory is that he shows the heads and horns all as certain stars, while ignoring others (he even counts one that is a part of Virgo), and without any real pattern differentiating each other than it makes a line. It seems stretched IMO. Heads are heads, horns are horns, and diadems are diadems (which the text days are on the heads), they're differentiated by John for a reason. Other than that, what he points out as far as the symmetry of the feast days between 2017 and 2024 is interesting. He's still wrong on Post-trib though. Actually the heads and diadems are the stars of Caput Serpens, head of the serpent, and Corona Borealis, Northern Crown. The Drakon, or Dragon, is the stars of the tail, Cauda Serpens, and an extension joined by 5 moving objects in a line, Saturn, Mercury, Sun, Venus and Mars,........there are no stars of Virgo at all, I am not sure where you get that from the video! I have a pre-wrath outlook, not post-trib, but do not debate it on this site, however if you email me am happy to discuss it! Shalom! Sorry I got Venus and Virgo confused. Edit: Also, some stars are counted and others ignored in these constellations. The head of Serpens has only 4 stars, not 7. It doesn't quite fit. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 7:55:52 GMT -6
It all depends on how one looks at it, and I readily admit it could be wrong! I am not worked up about it, but at the moment it makes the most sense to me as compared to Planet X, Niburu, or other theories. Stars are referred to as angels throughout Scripture, and are used interchangeably at times, so it is not that much of a stretch for me to consider an individual star to be a "head", hence the 7 stars of Caput Serpens could possibly be representative of the 7 "heads" in my mind. Caput Serpens has 7 stars, not 4........I am only putting it out there, for interest, not to necessarily convince!
There are no stars "ignored" in the arrangement or constellation as far as I can tell....I used all 7 of Caput Serpens, all 5 of Cauda Serpens, and all 7 of Corona Borealis. If you mean Ophiuchus, Libra, Scorpio, et al, then they are left out because they are not part of Cauda Serpens. The moving planetary objects are used to complete the tail to make 10, to extend Cauda Serpens......Libra, Scorpio, Ophiuchus have nothing to do with Cauda Serpens, and are always present in any case, which does not allow for unique arrangements...
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Post by socalexile on Aug 20, 2017 8:09:15 GMT -6
It all depends on how one looks at it, and I readily admit it could be wrong! I am not worked up about it, but at the moment it makes the most sense to me as compared to Planet X, Niburu, or other theories. Stars are referred to as angels throughout Scripture, and are used interchangeably at times, so it is not that much of a stretch for me to consider an individual star to be a "head", hence the 7 stars of Caput Serpens could possibly be representative of the 7 "heads" in my mind. I am only putting it out there, for interest, not to necessarily convince! There are no stars "ignored" in the arrangement as far as I can tell....I used all 7 of Caput Serpens, all 5 of Cauda Serpens, and all 7 of Corona Borealis. If you mean Ophiuchus, Libra, Scorpio, et al, then they are left out because they are not part of Cauda Serpens. The moving planetary objects are used to complete the tail to make 10, to extend Cauda Serpens......Libra, Scorpio, Ophiuchus have nothing to do with Cauda Serpens, and are always present in any case, which does not allow for unique arrangements... I'm still of the view that it is something unexpected or unique. Maybe Antares goes supernova or something. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 8:10:30 GMT -6
Could very well be! We are all going to find out very soon! Shalom!
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Aug 20, 2017 8:25:09 GMT -6
Ok, maybe I will be mixing metaphor with literal here, but what about this:
I just checked stelarium. Virgo is in the sky during the day right now. She is not visible to us at night, unlike Draco, of which people here tell me it is always visible in the sky (I am assuming, both day and night sky, rotating around like north star).... Perhaps the Birth is being confirmed to be a fall event when the Sun is where it is and the Moon, and Draco which is always there in the night sky means just that: ready to devour as we leave this planet, but the key is the Birth sign.. We will be launched straight up into the Heavens (where this Draco cluster is) and not toward the East or West wherever Virgo happens to be...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 8:43:04 GMT -6
Jupiter, Virgo, and Spica are visible around 8 to 10 pm in the Southern sky shown here: 1drv.ms/i/s!Ar-LtMQCo5Dii2CmLStRxU5Ur1sj Jupiter is "chasing the sun" though, and is getting closer by the day.....when it leaves Virgo on 15 October, it "may" be visible just above the horizon as the sun sets: 1drv.ms/i/s!Ar-LtMQCo5Dii2IAsc_BURRgwN0Z |
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