|
|
Post by whatif on Aug 16, 2017 14:33:31 GMT -6
That is fascinating, barbiosheepgirl! Interesting that it was launched on Monday, 14 August, which was 7 days before the eclipse!
|
|
|
|
Post by barbiosheepgirl on Aug 16, 2017 15:15:51 GMT -6
Here is what I find in biblehub on the use of Behold. This is the Hebrew use of the word via Strong's number 2009, hinneh: lo! behold! (hebrew).
"very frequently in historical style, especially (but not exclusively) after verbs of seeing or discovering, making the narrative graphic and vivid, and enabling the reader to enter into the surprise or satisfaction of the speaker or actor concerned"
and this use, in reference to future events: Here it serves to introduce a solemn or important declaration...
Rev was written in Greek? The Greek word behold here in Rev 12:3 is horaó: to see, perceive, attend to, Strong's 3708, this is its description:
3708 horáō – properly, see, often with metaphorical meaning: "to see with the mind" (i.e. spiritually see), i.e. perceive (with inward spiritual perception).
I find it interesting that horao is see, with metaphorical meaning... hmmmm...
btw the english word Behold is not used in all the Bible translations out there.. it is in KJV..
|
|
|
|
Post by whatif on Aug 16, 2017 17:26:09 GMT -6
Awesome, barbiosheepgirl! I found the 2009 Hebrew word in Strong's Concordance, which is "Hinneh," but I think I'm seeing Strong's 2400 "idou" for "Behold" as it is found in Revelation 12:3. Maybe someone here can help us out with the Greek!
|
|
|
|
Post by MissusMack08 on Aug 16, 2017 17:50:51 GMT -6
Hi everyone. I posted these over on "Just One Thing Missing From Clarke's Interpretation of The Sign" thread but since Brad started this new thread to consolidate efforts, I'm reposting them here:
Hi guys. I've watched several videos by Daniel Valles on YouTube (his channel is called "informed christians"), and he has an interesting theory on the red dragon. He suggests that John, being a sailor/fisherman, would have known that the "great dragon" was Draco in the night sky and that 1/3 of the stars indicates a time lapse of Draco as it "swims" around the arctic circle, dragging it's tail and those stars that follow it. This dragging of the tail 1/3 of the night sky represents X amount of days before Draco comes to face the woman in September. Supposedly, we are right now in the time frame of the dragging (it would've begun sometime in the first week of august, I believe). He also uses many descriptions of the seasons and harvest found throughout rapture/2nd coming scripture to say that we are indeed in that season (for example, turtle dove migration, tender grapes, "untimely figs" etc etc). I would need to go back and view his videos again to be more specific and find the exact verses. It is quite intriguing and fits in with John describing the dragon not as a "great sign."
Here is his latest video:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=o0cMXiaRfdY
It spends a lot of time considering the coming eclipse in relation to the past two total eclipses and 4 blood moons, which is pretty intriguing in itself. Towards the end he goes back over the Draco sign and how he came to those conclusions. Of course you can always go to his channel and find his videos that are more specific to solving the dragon. I didn't have time this morning to do that, but just wanted to throw this possibility out there if it has not been considered before.
Hi guys again. I have a little time now to expound on the Fiery Dragon video done by Daniel Valles at the Informed Christians YouTube channel:
He begins pretty quickly in that video to cover why he believes the dragon is Draco. His main premise is this: the people of 1 AD would have immediately recognized John's vision of the dragon as being Draco because of a very popular poem that everyone knew and even Paul quotes in the Bible (Act 17:28). The poem is "Phenomena" by Aratus. The description of Draco in that poem gives him the characteristics described by John in his vision.
In later videos, Daniel begins to work out what the 1/3 of the stars means. He assumes John is seeing the vision from the ground. He tediously deals with the math to determine how much of the sky would be visible, what roughly 1/3 would mean and what dates that 1/3 would possibly be starting on to end up in front of the woman just before Sept 23.
It seems pretty logical and straightforward to me. I don't know if I agree with his interpretation of what it means: namely that the Rev 12 sign is the "sign of the son of man" and that travail will come BEFORE the sign (Matt 24:29-30) so we should be expecting the rapture anytime before the sign and before sudden destruction. It's possible but I'm not yet willing to accept that interpretation wholesale. (To me it doesn't really matter because I'm watching and I'm ready to go!) How can we know if the Rev 12 sign is the "sign of the son of man?" But it's not just that verse that he uses to back up the idea of the travail coming before Sept 23rd. I think he also equates it to the 6th seal description. Sorry I don't have this all down concretely. I'd need to go through hours and hours of his videos with a notebook to get it all and work it out. I just don't have that kind of time at the moment. So if anyone else feels intrigued and compelled... by all means go for it!
|
|
|
|
Post by whatif on Aug 16, 2017 17:52:41 GMT -6
Thank you, MissusMack08! Interesting information!
|
|
|
|
Post by MissusMack08 on Aug 16, 2017 17:59:07 GMT -6
I went back to Daniel Valles' first video post. It's all the way back in Oct 2013, but doesn't deal with Draco. I'll have to keep searching through to find where he starts developing his theory. But I've got a notebook. I'm ready! Lol. Supposedly he has a website, www.informedchristians.com, but when I go there I only get the google drive stuff. I don't see articles only the charts etc, but maybe that's just how he offers the information. Maybe he changed it over time from a website to just a google drive account. He does have A LOT of charts and things. |
|
|
|
Post by MissusMack08 on Aug 16, 2017 19:34:15 GMT -6
In Acts 17:28 Paul quotes a line from Aratus' "Phaenomena" written in 2 BC: “for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’ The quote is in the beginning of the poem: "From Zeus let us begin; him do we mortals never leave unnamed;full of Zeus are all the streets and all the market-places of men; full is the sea and the havens thereof; always we all have need of Zeus. For we are also his offspring; and he in his kindness unto men giveth favourable signs and wakeneth the people to work, reminding them of livelihood..." Lines 45-62 are about Draco: "Between them, as it were the branch of a river, circles in wondrous way the Dragon [Draco], winding infinite around and about; on either side of his coil are borne along the Bears, that shun evermore the blue sea. Now towards the one he stretches the end of his tail, but with the coil he intercepts the Lesser Bear. The tip of his tail ends by the head of Helice, but in the coil Cynosura has her head. For his coiled circles past her very head and comes near her feet, but again, turning back, runs upward. Not one lone star shines on his head, but on his brows are two stars lit, and two in his eyes, and one beneath is set upon the chin-point of the dread monster. Aslant is his head, and he seems most like as if he were nodding to the tip of the tail of Helice; his mouth and right temple straight confront the end of her tail. That head wheels near where the limits of setting and rising blend." What I see from the above description that seems pertinent and may support the idea that the dragon John saw was Draco are: it's called "Dragon;" it's huge with lots of coils; and he's called "dread monster." I don't know how the 7 heads, crowns and 10 horns are answered from this alone. I don't know what the other names are referring to apart from the bears. Here is the link for the poem where I retrieved the above quotes: www.theoi.com/Text/AratusPhaenomena.htmlAgain, this was Daniel Valles' argument that the culture of 1 A.D. knew this poem very well and knew the constellations well. So when John wrote about another sign in the heavens and described it as a dragon, they would have recognized it as Draco. The issues I see or questions I have and need to look into are: is Draco fiery in some way? Does it have multiple heads, crowns and thorns? I'll see if I can find this out. |
|
|
|
Post by socalexile on Aug 16, 2017 19:37:44 GMT -6
Here is what I find in biblehub on the use of Behold. This is the Hebrew use of the word via Strong's number 2009, hinneh: lo! behold! (hebrew). "very frequently in historical style, especially (but not exclusively) after verbs of seeing or discovering, making the narrative graphic and vivid, and enabling the reader to enter into the surprise or satisfaction of the speaker or actor concerned" and this use, in reference to future events: Here it serves to introduce a solemn or important declaration... Rev was written in Greek? The Greek word behold here in Rev 12:3 is horaó: to see, perceive, attend to, Strong's 3708, this is its description: 3708 horáō – properly, see, often with metaphorical meaning: "to see with the mind" (i.e. spiritually see), i.e. perceive (with inward spiritual perception). I find it interesting that horao is see, with metaphorical meaning... hmmmm... btw the english word Behold is not used in all the Bible translations out there.. it is in KJV.. "Behold" is in the NASB and ESV also. I find that the Thayer's Greek Lexicon entry at BLB often sheds more light:   |
|
|
|
Post by socalexile on Aug 16, 2017 19:59:47 GMT -6
Hi everyone. I posted these over on "Just One Thing Missing From Clarke's Interpretation of The Sign" thread but since Brad started this new thread to consolidate efforts, I'm reposting them here: Hi guys. I've watched several videos by Daniel Valles on YouTube (his channel is called "informed christians"), and he has an interesting theory on the red dragon. He suggests that John, being a sailor/fisherman, would have known that the "great dragon" was Draco in the night sky and that 1/3 of the stars indicates a time lapse of Draco as it "swims" around the arctic circle, dragging it's tail and those stars that follow it. This dragging of the tail 1/3 of the night sky represents X amount of days before Draco comes to face the woman in September. Supposedly, we are right now in the time frame of the dragging (it would've begun sometime in the first week of august, I believe). He also uses many descriptions of the seasons and harvest found throughout rapture/2nd coming scripture to say that we are indeed in that season (for example, turtle dove migration, tender grapes, "untimely figs" etc etc). I would need to go back and view his videos again to be more specific and find the exact verses. It is quite intriguing and fits in with John describing the dragon not as a "great sign." Here is his latest video: m.youtube.com/watch?v=o0cMXiaRfdY It spends a lot of time considering the coming eclipse in relation to the past two total eclipses and 4 blood moons, which is pretty intriguing in itself. Towards the end he goes back over the Draco sign and how he came to those conclusions. Of course you can always go to his channel and find his videos that are more specific to solving the dragon. I didn't have time this morning to do that, but just wanted to throw this possibility out there if it has not been considered before. Hi guys again. I have a little time now to expound on the Fiery Dragon video done by Daniel Valles at the Informed Christians YouTube channel: He begins pretty quickly in that video to cover why he believes the dragon is Draco. His main premise is this: the people of 1 AD would have immediately recognized John's vision of the dragon as being Draco because of a very popular poem that everyone knew and even Paul quotes in the Bible (Act 17:28). The poem is "Phenomena" by Aratus. The description of Draco in that poem gives him the characteristics described by John in his vision. In later videos, Daniel begins to work out what the 1/3 of the stars means. He assumes John is seeing the vision from the ground. He tediously deals with the math to determine how much of the sky would be visible, what roughly 1/3 would mean and what dates that 1/3 would possibly be starting on to end up in front of the woman just before Sept 23. It seems pretty logical and straightforward to me. I don't know if I agree with his interpretation of what it means: namely that the Rev 12 sign is the "sign of the son of man" and that travail will come BEFORE the sign (Matt 24:29-30) so we should be expecting the rapture anytime before the sign and before sudden destruction. It's possible but I'm not yet willing to accept that interpretation wholesale. (To me it doesn't really matter because I'm watching and I'm ready to go!) How can we know if the Rev 12 sign is the "sign of the son of man?" But it's not just that verse that he uses to back up the idea of the travail coming before Sept 23rd. I think he also equates it to the 6th seal description. Sorry I don't have this all down concretely. I'd need to go through hours and hours of his videos with a notebook to get it all and work it out. I just don't have that kind of time at the moment. So if anyone else feels intrigued and compelled... by all means go for it! Draco is constantly twirling around in the northern sky. A 1/3 rotation simply indicates a 3-4 month period, if we interpret this as referring to the rotation of Draco. Also, I take it Daniel Valles believes in a partial rapture? That if you don't "sanctify yourself" you won't be raptured? He needs to read the change in the Greek word for "sleep" in 1 Thess 5. Also read Hebrews 10:10-18. I take it he doesn't believe in imputed righteousness either. Who then is he trusting to save him? Sorry these things drive me nuts because it distracts the focus of one's salvation from Jesus to oneself, which only leads to fear, doubt, and failing to rest in Jesus Christ. |
|
|
|
Post by gcdc9233 on Aug 16, 2017 20:08:46 GMT -6
Is there a connection to Space X recent launch of sataellite......called the Dragon?
|
|
|
|
Post by socalexile on Aug 16, 2017 20:14:32 GMT -6
Is there a connection to Space X recent launch of sataellite......called the Dragon? What's the trajectory? The symbol of the dragon on the rocket is blue though.  |
|
|
|
Post by whatif on Aug 16, 2017 20:55:25 GMT -6
Welcome to the forum, gcdc9233! Great question! I can hardly wait to find out!
|
|
|
|
Post by whatif on Aug 16, 2017 20:57:34 GMT -6
Is there a connection to Space X recent launch of sataellite......called the Dragon? What's the trajectory? The symbol of the dragon on the rocket is blue though. Did you get a chance to check out the link barbiosheepgirl shared to the fox news video and article, socalexile? It's on page 3 of this thread. The video shows an interesting picture of the Dragon with a great fiery looking something--I don't know what to call it. It's at about timemark 01:18 on the video. |
|
|
|
Post by barbiosheepgirl on Aug 16, 2017 21:53:42 GMT -6
socal, thanks for showing me this site. This will be helpful to me. it is hard to read the numbering system in the text there, but I did find where Rev 12 was mentioned, and BLB notes "an explanation of one pointing out something." And, in the opening of this text, states it is imitating the hebrew word that means to add vivacity to the style by bidding the reader to attend to what is said.
I still find it interesting. John emphasizes this sign with the word Behold, but did not when seeing the Great Sign...
Later in this chapter the Red dragon is identified though. So it can't be Draco..can it? Rev 12 cont... at vs 7...And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
I am just a simple person, not schooled in theology at all. Line up verses 1 and 3 word by word and the style becomes different to me from celestial to danielesque. Based on greek interpretation of the word behold, I think that opens up verses 3 and 4 to metaphorical interpretation of what he was seeing.
kinda like when we go to Rev 17, starting in vs 7..
And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
8The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. 12And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
so sorry if this has all been talked about. but we are so much closer now...I do not think we need to see the dragon sign until right before the rapture. and perhaps, only those of us looking will see it..
|
|
|
|
Post by socalexile on Aug 16, 2017 22:07:34 GMT -6
I think the sign in Rev12:3-4 refers to a literal sign in the heavens that may or may not exist there now. After that, what it refers to by "Dragon" is Satan himself, and as a representation of the world system itself.
|
|
