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Post by witness1 on May 13, 2018 16:24:49 GMT -6
One argument that came up against a muslim as the man of sin: the man of sin declares himself to be God. No true muslim would do this, as belief in the one God Allah is primary to their faith. So whichever religion the man of sin belongs to, he must depart from the primary beliefs of that religion. If he is muslim, he would be departing from the belief that Allah is the only God. If he is Christian, he is obviously only one in pretense and not in truth. But the title "god of fortresses" belongs to Zeus, and we see a lot of Zeus worship in the secret societies and such. Both of these statues of Zeus are currently in the Vatican:
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Post by witness1 on May 13, 2018 16:26:04 GMT -6
I like learning about the OT way of thinking and what things represent. Maybe start a separate thread with all of these so they don't get lost? Would be useful for reference later.
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Post by Natalie on May 13, 2018 18:01:43 GMT -6
Yes and yes!!!!! seas and waves roaring is possibly very well upheavals of nations, religions, races, peoples against people's. We are certainly seeing that now. Pestilence (sin?) and famines (lack of the word of God or seeing/seeking it?) in various places. Just thoughts 💭 Yes, the verse with "the sea and waves roaring" I believe is actually not typhoons and such but actually nations of the earth and many peoples roaring for what will be going on in the earth. Could it very well be physical and spiritual things? Real earthquakes, but also upheavals among nations?
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Post by mike on May 13, 2018 18:23:55 GMT -6
Absolutely Natalie! Why wouldn't the natural be a reflection of the spiritual. It could reflect exactly what is going on "behind the scenes"
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Post by venge on May 13, 2018 19:09:26 GMT -6
One argument that came up against a muslim as the man of sin: the man of sin declares himself to be God. No true muslim would do this, as belief in the one God Allah is primary to their faith. So whichever religion the man of sin belongs to, he must depart from the primary beliefs of that religion. If he is muslim, he would be departing from the belief that Allah is the only God. If he is Christian, he is obviously only one in pretense and not in truth. But the title "god of fortresses" belongs to Zeus, and we see a lot of Zeus worship in the secret societies and such. Both of these statues of Zeus are currently in the Vatican: You’re referring to 2 Thessalonians 3:4 In that verse, the man of sin sits in the temple of God therefore showing that he is acting like he’s God himself. It doesn’t say he says he’s God or calls himself God. A Muslim sitting in the temple of God could in fact do that. Also, it’s a known fact that their mah’di will claim to be Allah or some Allah inspired person. If a person were to do this, they could claim this is what Allah wants and he’s be called the mah’di. Muslim messiah. Not Isa which interpreted is Jesus which they believe will back up the Mah’di.
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Post by witness1 on May 14, 2018 3:54:21 GMT -6
3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. - 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
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Post by venge on May 14, 2018 5:16:30 GMT -6
3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. - 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 Sitting in the temple is his proclamation! Read the 2....SO that he takes....proclaiming he IS... Perhaps we understand it differently but I interpret it as doing X is the result Y.
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Post by mike on May 14, 2018 5:55:03 GMT -6
The YLT version
3 let not any one deceive you in any manner, because — if the falling away may not come first, and the man of sin be revealed — the son of the destruction, 4 who is opposing and is raising himself up above all called God or worshipped, so that he in the sanctuary of God as God hath sat down, shewing himself off that he is God — [the day doth not come].
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Post by venge on May 14, 2018 6:01:47 GMT -6
The YLT version 3 let not any one deceive you in any manner, because — if the falling away may not come first, and the man of sin be revealed — the son of the destruction, 4 who is opposing and is raising himself up above all called God or worshipped, so that he in the sanctuary of God as God hath sat down, shewing himself off that he is God — [the day doth not come]. I should add that the text is not stating imo that he sits or he says.... Opposing and raising himself above all that is God is the sitting in the temple showing to himself that he is like God. It is a metaphor. He is full of pride. Satan did the same lifting himself up. It doesn’t mean he sits in a literal way or says he’s God literally. His actions are what causes the “sit” and “showing” by his pride and arrogance. This is my interpretation The idea is that God alone is worthy of praise and worship. But the man of sin removes all worship from other religions other then his own therefore proclaiming he is god. He sets the tone where only God can set therefore he is God in his heart.
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Post by mike on May 14, 2018 6:38:53 GMT -6
Venge - I can see where you are coming from with the dissection of the text and do not wholeheartedly disagree with you. I believe that its possible for a literal/physical 'man of sin' sit down somewhere and make claims of being God or godlike, no doubt in our day. I do want to point out to you that in some of your posts you vehemently have stated that the text says what the text says and we shouldnt read into it or interpret things that arent there. Yet it would seem to me that here that you do not have the same stance on these verses.
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Post by venge on May 14, 2018 10:13:47 GMT -6
Venge - I can see where you are coming from with the dissection of the text and do not wholeheartedly disagree with you. I believe that its possible for a literal/physical 'man of sin' sit down somewhere and make claims of being God or godlike, no doubt in our day. I do want to point out to you that in some of your posts you vehemently have stated that the text says what the text says and we shouldnt read into it or interpret things that arent there. Yet it would seem to me that here that you do not have the same stance on these verses. Possibly I didn’t explain myself well. My position is he does not literally sit nor am I an advocate that the third temple must be built. It can be built, very possible but I’m not sure it’s has to in order to fulfill the events. I think in the past I was asking what it is meant to sit and does he sit. I may also have said that one is not the other. Forgive me, so hard to type a better meaning on a phone. I think the text shows his personality. Because he does things and says things (not saying I am God but saying things against what God holds dear) that he raises himself in such esteem like he is sitting in the temple as God. Only God can sit there and he makes the rules. So if someone came to change the rules, they’d be like God sitting in the temple ruling as him. I want to add, I think people, including myself in the past, take much of Revelation to almost sound mystical, supernatural.... But it isn’t at all. It’s basic stuff. Just getting around the terminology is TUFF!!!!
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Post by sog on May 24, 2018 14:16:45 GMT -6
www.markofbeast.net/666-number-of-the-beast.htmlThis site explains it very well, going all the way back to the Babylonian system of worship, up until today having the Mark Of The Beast means that you revere/worship (mark on your forehead) the antichrist Papal church, and that you obey (mark on your right hand) it's commands.
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Post by yardstick on May 24, 2018 17:15:40 GMT -6
The YLT version 3 let not any one deceive you in any manner, because — if the falling away may not come first, and the man of sin be revealed — the son of the destruction, 4 who is opposing and is raising himself up above all called God or worshipped, so that he in the sanctuary of God as God hath sat down, shewing himself off that he is God — [the day doth not come]. I should add that the text is not stating imo that he sits or he says.... Opposing and raising himself above all that is God is the sitting in the temple showing to himself that he is like God. It is a metaphor. He is full of pride. Satan did the same lifting himself up. It doesn’t mean he sits in a literal way or says he’s God literally. His actions are what causes the “sit” and “showing” by his pride and arrogance. This is my interpretation The idea is that God alone is worthy of praise and worship. But the man of sin removes all worship from other religions other then his own therefore proclaiming he is god. He sets the tone where only God can set therefore he is God in his heart. venge, given what you posted above, have you seen this yet? unsealed.boards.net/post/15076/threadspecifically, the information on sufi islam?
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Post by yardstick on May 24, 2018 17:27:38 GMT -6
One argument that came up against a muslim as the man of sin: the man of sin declares himself to be God. No true muslim would do this, as belief in the one God Allah is primary to their faith. So whichever religion the man of sin belongs to, he must depart from the primary beliefs of that religion. If he is muslim, he would be departing from the belief that Allah is the only God. If he is Christian, he is obviously only one in pretense and not in truth. But the title "god of fortresses" belongs to Zeus, and we see a lot of Zeus worship in the secret societies and such. Both of these statues of Zeus are currently in the Vatican: Please check out the investigation into sufi Islam (linked above). This sect of islam most certainly would have an individual who would declare himself to be god, but not in the way that we would think. And who was Zeus a representation of? Trace his roots back from Greece, back through Phoenicia...back... I bet that almost all of it is obfuscated, but Satan likes his pride more than hiding himself, and I would also bet that you would find Zeus' roots in ancient Babylonia and Akkadia... derived from Satan himself (the lightning bolt motif). Which when combined with (spoiler alert) the sufi islam concept of emptying themselves (empty vessel for possession?)... hmmm... Oh, yeah, and I finally made it to 1000 posts, w00t...
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Post by sog on May 24, 2018 18:38:30 GMT -6
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