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Post by witness1 on May 25, 2018 4:45:35 GMT -6
One argument that came up against a muslim as the man of sin: the man of sin declares himself to be God. No true muslim would do this, as belief in the one God Allah is primary to their faith. So whichever religion the man of sin belongs to, he must depart from the primary beliefs of that religion. If he is muslim, he would be departing from the belief that Allah is the only God. If he is Christian, he is obviously only one in pretense and not in truth. But the title "god of fortresses" belongs to Zeus, and we see a lot of Zeus worship in the secret societies and such. Both of these statues of Zeus are currently in the Vatican: Please check out the investigation into sufi Islam (linked above). This sect of islam most certainly would have an individual who would declare himself to be god, but not in the way that we would think. And who was Zeus a representation of? Trace his roots back from Greece, back through Phoenicia...back... I bet that almost all of it is obfuscated, but Satan likes his pride more than hiding himself, and I would also bet that you would find Zeus' roots in ancient Babylonia and Akkadia... derived from Satan himself (the lightning bolt motif). Which when combined with (spoiler alert) the sufi islam concept of emptying themselves (empty vessel for possession?)... hmmm... Oh, yeah, and I finally made it to 1000 posts, w00t... I had never heard of that sect of Islam before. Very interesting and worth watching out for. Thanks! So if Zeus derived from Satan himself... why are there statues of him in the Vatican?? Something just seems fishy. Congrats on 1000 posts!
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Post by venge on May 25, 2018 9:07:00 GMT -6
I think there is confusion. Does it say he declares himself God or does it say his doing X and Y is like he is calling himself God. Big difference.
I believe his doing things causes himself to set up himself as God but he never says I am God.
He sets it up in his heart.
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Post by stormyknight on May 25, 2018 13:32:06 GMT -6
"He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God." 2Thess. 2:4 Berean Study Bible
"He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." 2Thess. 2:4 NIV
"He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God." 2Thess. 2:4 New Living Trans.
"Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." 2Thess. 2:4 KJV
ἀποδείκνυμι = Definition: I show by proof, demonstrate, set forth, proclaim to an officer.
I guess just by seating himself in the Temple of God may be enough, but I'd say "proclaiming himself to be God" is the same as "I am God". But it could go either way.
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Post by stormyknight on May 25, 2018 14:00:13 GMT -6
Also, we have to remember it won't be just him, the man of perdition, there. He will have his staff/bodyguards/elite squad, whatever, around him. He is human, after all. And, obviously, by that verse, the power has gone to his head. Remember the assassination attempt on Pres. Ronald Reagan when Sec. of State Alexander Haig promptly pronounced he was 'in control'? "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men." Lord Acton 19th Century British Politician.
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Post by venge on May 25, 2018 17:10:52 GMT -6
"He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God." 2Thess. 2:4 Berean Study Bible
"He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." 2Thess. 2:4 NIV
"He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God." 2Thess. 2:4 New Living Trans.
"Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." 2Thess. 2:4 KJV
ἀποδείκνυμι = Definition: I show by proof, demonstrate, set forth, proclaim to an officer.
I guess just by seating himself in the Temple of God may be enough, but I'd say "proclaiming himself to be God" is the same as "I am God". But it could go either way.
As I stated prior, if you look at the NIV, he opposes everything that is called God. He also exalts himself over everything that is called God. He does this so that because he sets himself up spiritually infallible (though he’s not) and righteous...it’s as if he was like God who sits on his throne in his temple. It’s very symbolic but the text does not say a new built temple. It doesn’t say he will say he is God. The text shows how he carries himself, he elevated himself as if he were God. The things he does shows how he proclaims he is God. Edit: In Isa 14, do you remember reading how Satan was? I imagine the Man of sin will be the same. This man of sin will say in his heart that he is the one over all things. He will say in his heart, he did all this. It was cause of him! He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped,
WHY?
so that he sets himself up in God's temple [in his own heart], proclaiming himself to be God.
Remember Dan 4?
Again, pride of the heart like Satan in God's temple corrupts them. Even Nebuchadnezzar " exalted himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped" so that he sets himself up in God's temple [in his own heart], proclaiming himself to be God. The angel then said WHY he was punished. Nebuchadnezzar wasn't ruler over all. God was. And in verse 37 he said, Pride of the heart sets up one in God's temple as proclaiming yourself to be God. Especially when one elevates himself over all that is God, called God or worshipped to God. The man of sin will remove worship and prayer. Doing so says he has control. He knows what is right to do and what is wrong. His law is superior to Gods law. Doing so justifies his pride and sets himself as if he is God in the temple of God.
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Post by fitz on May 25, 2018 18:15:54 GMT -6
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Post by sog on May 25, 2018 21:04:12 GMT -6
www.markbeast.org/mark-beast-666.htmlAnother good site that explains this very well. Lot’s of information. The real deception is explained here. The real enemy is explained here. Pray for discernment.
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Post by venge on May 26, 2018 5:05:31 GMT -6
Hello fitz, I think Joel does that because: There are verses that mention the Assyrian Verses that mention coming from the north of Israel Verses mentioning Gog and Magog as northern to Israel Verses mentioning the man of sin dominates west, south and east (towards the pleasant land). It leaves out north cause he comes from the north. Verses that mention bear, lion and leopard which were middle eastern kingdoms. A lot of info points that way. That’s not to say his bloodline is not there yet he could live in Europe but if he is the Assyrian, it would make sense calling him northern, gog and Magog, and bear, lion and leopard because all of those rest on each other
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Post by venge on May 26, 2018 5:23:45 GMT -6
www.markbeast.org/mark-beast-666.htmlAnother good site that explains this very well. Lot’s of information. The real deception is explained here. The real enemy is explained here. Pray for discernment. Sog The website gives off an eerie look of science fiction with a graphic of a man made demon on its main page. Not warming or Christian. I read some of it but in his opening paragraphs the writer said “God calls the Catholic Church Babylon”. No where in the Bible does God say this. When talking about the number 666, the writer says “the Bible says it is a number of a man and this man is from the beast power , or in other words from the Roman Catholic Church.” He is inserting his own belief as biblical facts without any proof, scripture verses to back up said view. If someone holds this view, that’s fine. But it needs to be sound doctrine. What he is putting forth right away is a view based on opinion. No fact with nothing to support an opening statement. God never said what he stated. He goes into the origin of 666 and makes the statement of it came from Babylonians. None of that is scriptural. Now, I realize sometimes we need to look at things outside scripture to understand meaning, but scripture does not point us to Babylonian unit of measurement. The only possible thing he could say was Daniels statue being 60 by 6. Still leaves out 600....but it was Babylonian.
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Post by stormyknight on Jun 1, 2018 7:58:52 GMT -6
Some of you may be familiar with the website Reddit. It might be the largest community of 'regular' people on the internet. Having many different sub-reddits, or specific forums, makes it quite the useful reference for research. In the sub ELI5 or Explain it Like I'm Five, someone asked about the 666 in the Book of Revelations. If you read it, be warned, this is a public forum. There will be foul language and such.
https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/8np6hz/eli5_whats_the_reason_behind_of_666_being_the/
It is really interesting to read what the world thinks as this is as close of a cross-section of the general public as you can get. Some people are quite knowledgeable and others are completely clueless:
kutuup1989 posted "There was an Israel when the Bible was written? Did not know that."
One of the nice things about Reddit is that it is anonymous, so people aren't afraid to divulge their knowledge or lack thereof. Which, if you think about it, is similar to here with the exception that we are all expecting to see/meet each other some day soon which essentially is a huge difference.
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Post by venge on Jun 1, 2018 9:54:59 GMT -6
Some of you may be familiar with the website Reddit. It might be the largest community of 'regular' people on the internet. Having many different sub-reddits, or specific forums, makes it quite the useful reference for research. In the sub ELI5 or Explain it Like I'm Five, someone asked about the 666 in the Book of Revelations. If you read it, be warned, this is a public forum. There will be foul language and such.
https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/8np6hz/eli5_whats_the_reason_behind_of_666_being_the/
It is really interesting to read what the world thinks as this is as close of a cross-section of the general public as you can get. Some people are quite knowledgeable and others are completely clueless:
kutuup1989 posted "There was an Israel when the Bible was written? Did not know that."
One of the nice things about Reddit is that it is anonymous, so people aren't afraid to divulge their knowledge or lack thereof. Which, if you think about it, is similar to here with the exception that we are all expecting to see/meet each other some day soon which essentially is a huge difference.
Was reading it. A lot of Nero Caesar, gementia, and random stuff. The blind will not know, the drunk will swallow and drink more! It is not meet for those who seek not the kingdom of God. They will drink of the bitterness and poison of wormwood and it will suffice them
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Post by stormyknight on Jun 1, 2018 11:13:10 GMT -6
venge, haha, so true. I tried posting in the "AcademicalBiblical" sub once in a "suppose for a minute that the bible were true" kind of way and WOW, the backlash was incredible. I was pretty much told 'There will be NO PROSELYTIZING on the premises!' That really made me step back for a moment. I was thinking, 'so what your saying is this place is for discussing how the bible was written but belief is of no consideration? Then why isn't there an "Academical Moby Dick" sub?'. I joke, but it really blows my mind that people will discuss the bible to great lengths but if you bring up that it just might be true, you'll find yourself kicked to the street. I find that I can somewhat hold my own in discussions in places like this where there is a great amount of tolerance and consideration, the user 'dent' being a prime example, but when I get in the general public I find myself barraged by statements that I don't have the wit and speed to back myself up. Pray as I might for Spiritual help, I don't think the Father cut me from that cloth.
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Post by mike on Jun 1, 2018 12:08:31 GMT -6
stormyknight - we know the end of the story. We are on the winning team! I know some of us differ on how the "game" may play out but we all agree we are on the right team. Continue to ask the Holy Spirit for words you'll need when you need them. I was just outside watering new planted bushes. While I know that watering them all is necessary, one of them is struggling and nearly dead. The others all seem to be flourishing. You never know who you'll reach with what you say. Just like the bushes drinking the water, you dont know what will reach someones heart and have affect.
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Post by venge on Jun 1, 2018 13:35:09 GMT -6
venge, haha, so true. I tried posting in the "AcademicalBiblical" sub once in a "suppose for a minute that the bible were true" kind of way and WOW, the backlash was incredible. I was pretty much told 'There will be NO PROSELYTIZING on the premises!' That really made me step back for a moment. I was thinking, 'so what your saying is this place is for discussing how the bible was written but belief is of no consideration? Then why isn't there an "Academical Moby Dick" sub?'. I joke, but it really blows my mind that people will discuss the bible to great lengths but if you bring up that it just might be true, you'll find yourself kicked to the street. I find that I can somewhat hold my own in discussions in places like this where there is a great amount of tolerance and consideration, the user 'dent' being a prime example, but when I get in the general public I find myself barraged by statements that I don't have the wit and speed to back myself up. Pray as I might for Spiritual help, I don't think the Father cut me from that cloth. Sadly, they will talk about the Bible is fake history and inaccurate but refuse the truth. God said I will send them a strong delusion so they would not believe the truth but the lie. If a Christian ask an atheist, if creation was random...what did I lose being a Christian? But if creation was by God. I lose nothing and gain everything. The atheist loses everything. His life and his soul. Christians don’t lose either way. Just the non believers
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jun 1, 2018 13:41:25 GMT -6
Nice venge you must have heard or read Frank Turek..
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