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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 11:35:21 GMT -6
Hmmm. Yes. I believe my answer is yes, he speaks through everything. Please keep in mind, that Jesus even referred to the Book of Enoch as a source of information. But let me ask you this, have you ever been moved by a movie or song? I cry all the time, but some scenes in movies or parts of songs are so moving to me that I cry during them. For instance, Master and Commander has a scene where the Captain of the ship has stopped his mission - a mission that was critical to him with an overwhelming sense of duty - in order to save the life of a friend. I cannot watch that scene and hear the beautiful classical music playing without hearing the voice of God. Now, the musicians and composers are most likely not believers. The script writers and actors also unlikely know God. And the scene is certainly not included in the Cannon of scripture. But I assure you - that scene and the message contained within is as inspired as John 3:16. Certainly you have felt this same way during a sunset, or watching a child play, or dangling your feet in a cool lake during a summer afternoon. God is always speaking.
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bella
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Post by bella on Sept 7, 2017 11:42:30 GMT -6
Hmmm. Yes. I believe my answer is yes, he speaks through everything. Please keep in mind, that Jesus even referred to the Book of Enoch as a source of information. But let me ask you this, have you ever been moved by a movie or song? I cry all the time, but some scenes in movies or parts of songs are so moving to me that I cry during them. For instance, Master and Commander has a scene where the Captain of the ship has stopped his mission - a mission that was critical to him with an overwhelming sense of duty - in order to save the life of a friend. I cannot watch that scene and hear the beautiful classical music playing without hearing the voice of God. Now, the musicians and composers are most likely not believers. The script writers and actors also unlikely know God. And the scene is certainly not included in the Cannon of scripture. But I assure you - that scene and the message contained within is as inspired as John 3:16. Certainly you have felt this same way during a sunset, or watching a child play, or dangling your feet in a cool lake during a summer afternoon. God is always speaking. Where exactly does Jesus reference the book of Enoch?Do you not believe that the Bible is complete and perfect as is?
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Post by Natalie on Sept 7, 2017 11:43:32 GMT -6
I was one that said I shut it off. I will agree though that we could read it and possibly learn from it, but I don't see it as inspired and felt weird that it was being quoted like Scripture.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 11:44:39 GMT -6
One other thing I thought about was that so far 3 people have said they turned that video off without finishing it. That is the Holy Spirit speaking right there. I agree with this thought bella. What happened to me was that I started listening to a brother who's heart I have grown to love and loved what I was hearing. But then something started changing and I began to realize that what I was hearing had departed from the voice of God and was no longer truth. But I do believe the very beginning was the voice of God. Once the shift happened, I could tell it was no longer my Father speaking and I departed. So I guess I do agree with your spirit on the specific instance that you brought up in this thread. Perhaps, if we had finished the video, the gentleman would have commented about it in a way that would have made us more satisfied. I guess what I take away from this is, judge each word based on who you know God to be. Don't write off the source or the speaker. They both may have great things to say elsewhere or at a different time. love ya sister!
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Post by mike on Sept 7, 2017 11:46:53 GMT -6
Thanks SK see you soon to sharpen some more
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bella
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Post by bella on Sept 7, 2017 11:49:37 GMT -6
One other thing I thought about was that so far 3 people have said they turned that video off without finishing it. That is the Holy Spirit speaking right there. I agree with this thought bella. What happened to me was that I started listening to a brother who's heart I have grown to love and loved what I was hearing. But then something started changing and I began to realize that what I was hearing had departed from the voice of God and was no longer truth. But I do believe the very beginning was the voice of God. Once the shift happened, I could tell it was no longer my Father speaking and I departed. So I guess I do agree with your spirit on the specific instance that you brought up in this thread. Perhaps, if we had finished the video, the gentleman would have commented about it in a way that would have made us more satisfied. I guess what I take away from this is, judge each word based on who you know God to be. Don't write off the source or the speaker. They both may have great things to say elsewhere or at a different time. love ya sister! I respectfully disagree with you about writing off the source. We aren't going to see eye to eye on this. But I still love you as a brother in Christ.
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Post by mike on Sept 7, 2017 11:51:26 GMT -6
bella - I didnt see the video. My personal recommendation is that if it was not bearing witness with you (and apparently @natalie) then you did the right thing. As I wrote earlier I wouldnt quote Enoch like I would Genesis, but I would quote Genesis then suggest there is evidence to support through historical writings of the Babylonians, Enoch as well as finding skeletal remains of giants. FWIW
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 11:54:45 GMT -6
Hmmm. Yes. I believe my answer is yes, he speaks through everything. Please keep in mind, that Jesus even referred to the Book of Enoch as a source of information. But let me ask you this, have you ever been moved by a movie or song? I cry all the time, but some scenes in movies or parts of songs are so moving to me that I cry during them. For instance, Master and Commander has a scene where the Captain of the ship has stopped his mission - a mission that was critical to him with an overwhelming sense of duty - in order to save the life of a friend. I cannot watch that scene and hear the beautiful classical music playing without hearing the voice of God. Now, the musicians and composers are most likely not believers. The script writers and actors also unlikely know God. And the scene is certainly not included in the Cannon of scripture. But I assure you - that scene and the message contained within is as inspired as John 3:16. Certainly you have felt this same way during a sunset, or watching a child play, or dangling your feet in a cool lake during a summer afternoon. God is always speaking. Where exactly does Jesus reference the book of Enoch?Do you not believe that the Bible is complete and perfect as is? I'm sorry, in a quick check I cannot confirm what I just said and may have remembered incorrectly. However, if we believe that God was Jesus and God inspired all scripture, then indirectly Jesus, through Jude does reference the prophecies of Enoch: Jude 1:14-15, quoting Enoch 1:9 {2:1} [1] "And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, "To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches, which ungodly sinners have spoken against him." Also, some of Jesus' quotes of "scripture" are not found in scripture, but are found in The Book of Enoch. But I am put in a position here of defending the Book of Enoch - which is not where I intended to be. I emphatically do not defend the Book of Enoch. I defend the ability of God to speak through any book. I will continue the other thought in the next post....
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Post by whatif on Sept 7, 2017 12:04:24 GMT -6
Hmmm. Yes. I believe my answer is yes, he speaks through everything. Please keep in mind, that Jesus even referred to the Book of Enoch as a source of information. But let me ask you this, have you ever been moved by a movie or song? I cry all the time, but some scenes in movies or parts of songs are so moving to me that I cry during them. For instance, Master and Commander has a scene where the Captain of the ship has stopped his mission - a mission that was critical to him with an overwhelming sense of duty - in order to save the life of a friend. I cannot watch that scene and hear the beautiful classical music playing without hearing the voice of God. Now, the musicians and composers are most likely not believers. The script writers and actors also unlikely know God. And the scene is certainly not included in the Cannon of scripture. But I assure you - that scene and the message contained within is as inspired as John 3:16. Certainly you have felt this same way during a sunset, or watching a child play, or dangling your feet in a cool lake during a summer afternoon. God is always speaking. Where exactly does Jesus reference the book of Enoch? I find the book of Enoch quite fascinating myself, bella, but I do remain cautious about it even as I say that. It is quoted in the Bible. Here is the verse:
Jude 1:14-15, Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones 15to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”
The note that accompanies this passage says, "From the Jewish First Book of Enoch (approximately the first century b.c.)." More specifically, it is a quote from Enoch 1:9.
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Post by whatif on Sept 7, 2017 12:08:26 GMT -6
LOL! I didn't see your post in which you already quoted this verse before I posted, silentknight!
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Post by mike on Sept 7, 2017 12:34:23 GMT -6
I think one thing to remember SK is that God can speak through anything, but we have discernment and non-believers not so much. How many times have I heard "god told me..." (to jump off a bridge, kill someone...) When God says something it has to line up with the Word. If it contradicts, then it wasnt Him.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 12:42:56 GMT -6
...Do you not believe that the Bible is complete and perfect as is? Interesting question. It is tempting to just answer with yes, I do see it as complete and perfect as is. But I feel that would not do justice to the conversation. At the same time, I am a bit concerned that we are approaching conflict and I do not want to do that either. It is so hard to tell over written communication vs sitting across a campfire. So... The bible is complete and perfect for what it is intended to be. But I do not believe that means we cannot learn about God through other means, as I have written in this thread. My point has been that God speaks through much more than just the 66 books of the bible. I am looking out my window at blue sky for the first time in several days. God is speaking through that. I have a soccer game tonight, God will speak through that. And I do not mean a vague message like - "love". I mean words of truth. Enoch - a man so close to God that God took him alive, wrote a book about things he understood. I believe God speaks through that as well. If you think about it - if we say "All of the Book of Enoch is not the word of God." Then aren't we saying that Jude 14, 15 is wrong? If we say that, then aren't we saying that the Bible is not the word of God? This is why I say, do not throw out the source - test each word. Jude, as led by the Holy Spirit, felt that at least that portion of the Book of Enoch was the word of God. God chooses the methods to reveal himself. God speaks through whatever he wants - including stones and donkeys. If scriptures was sufficient, He would not have needed to use a donkey to get his message across. Or, when the donkey did talk, the animal could have said - "Hey, Balaam, read your bible." Now, I will say, that I am, perhaps being particular about a detail. Because, I do agree that some do take the entire Book of Enoch to be equivalent with scripture and I, with you, do not support that. Does the help?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 12:46:19 GMT -6
I think one thing to remember SK is that God can speak through anything, but we have discernment and non-believers not so much. How many times have I heard "god told me..." (to jump off a bridge, kill someone...) When God says something it has to line up with the Word. If it contradicts, then it wasnt Him. A good point, mike. God speaking, and our ability to hear, translate, interpret, and apply are very different things. I have actually written a whole essay on this topic that I could dig up if anyone is interested in seeing it. I am only dealing with the God speaking part in this entire conversation....
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bella
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Post by bella on Sept 7, 2017 15:19:56 GMT -6
...Do you not believe that the Bible is complete and perfect as is? Interesting question. It is tempting to just answer with yes, I do see it as complete and perfect as is. But I feel that would not do justice to the conversation. At the same time, I am a bit concerned that we are approaching conflict and I do not want to do that either. It is so hard to tell over written communication vs sitting across a campfire. So... The bible is complete and perfect for what it is intended to be. But I do not believe that means we cannot learn about God through other means, as I have written in this thread. My point has been that God speaks through much more than just the 66 books of the bible. I am looking out my window at blue sky for the first time in several days. God is speaking through that. I have a soccer game tonight, God will speak through that. And I do not mean a vague message like - "love". I mean words of truth. Enoch - a man so close to God that God took him alive, wrote a book about things he understood. I believe God speaks through that as well. If you think about it - if we say "All of the Book of Enoch is not the word of God." Then aren't we saying that Jude 14, 15 is wrong? If we say that, then aren't we saying that the Bible is not the word of God? This is why I say, do not throw out the source - test each word. Jude, as led by the Holy Spirit, felt that at least that portion of the Book of Enoch was the word of God. God chooses the methods to reveal himself. God speaks through whatever he wants - including stones and donkeys. If scriptures was sufficient, He would not have needed to use a donkey to get his message across. Or, when the donkey did talk, the animal could have said - "Hey, Balaam, read your bible." Now, I will say, that I am, perhaps being particular about a detail. Because, I do agree that some do take the entire Book of Enoch to be equivalent with scripture and I, with you, do not support that. Does the help? [ It is heresy but you keep defending it, and you keep bullying me to accept your position. I do not and I will not accept it. The evil spirits on this board are strong, and I am not going to continue with this.
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Post by whatif on Sept 7, 2017 16:37:17 GMT -6
Bella, there has been no bullying here--only sharing of opinions. There will always be times when some will agree and times when some will disagree. Please don't feel that anyone here has been trying to force you to any opinion. We respect your opinion, and so far as I have seen, the conversation here has only been in the nature of sharing other opinions.
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