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Post by disciple4life on Aug 31, 2017 5:34:44 GMT -6
As I have said more than once before, it is not difficult for me to imagine that there will be some folks who, if possible, will be clinging to their mantra of "No man knows the day or the hour" even as they are being lifted from the earth to meet the Lord in the air...  Just came across this Barry Scarborough video on YouTube, which I thought was very good in making the case against the traditionally accepted interpretation of "no man knows the day or the hour." However, the one thing that Barry neglected to include in his presentation is the fact that both the church and the rapture are, at the time of Matthew 24, unrevealed mysteries that the disciples knew nothing about. They did not know about either of these concepts until AFTER Jesus had been resurrected and ascended. Context...context...context. Jewish Messiah speaking to Jewish disciples who, at the time of the conversation, knew nothing about either the church or the rapture. Makes it more than a little difficult to make a convincing case that Jesus was referring to the rapture when He said, "No man knows the day or the hour." Just sayin'. Anyway, I found this message from Barry to be very worthwhile listening to. Yes, I agree it was interesting -- One thing was that he kept saying over and over, that the Matt 24 passage does not refer to the rapture - passage is clearly telling about the heavens and earth passing away. However, he failed to mention that Matthew 25 (Parable of the Wise and Foolish virgins) positively IS referring to the rapture. It's a celebration, - those found faithful and watching were rewarded - taken into the wedding. Those not watching, not ready, were kept out/ the door was shut. ** Very interesting that they knew the season. If it were a random, surprise, unknown event, you would have to pull a wagon with oil everywhere. |
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Post by disciple4life on Aug 31, 2017 5:41:57 GMT -6
I have asked all my 4 chlldren, now with children of their own, what it might mean if I said "Let's split the scene!".........not a single one knew what I was talking about....we lost the meaning of an idiom of the 60's and 70's in English in one generation. If we can lose the meaning of an idiom in American English in one generation, how much more so can we lose meaning from a Jewish idiom in Aramaic referring to Yom Teruah translated to the king's English today? Sam, I've lived in 12 states, - North, South, East, West and Central, and 3 countries. I've never heard that phrase in my life, in any context. Perhaps it's regional, or specific to theatre?? I don't think that's a good comparison. Another example is "get the cart before the horse" or don't count your chickens ..." or something else rooted in the fabric of American culture. If my understanding is correct, this idiom was inseparably connected to Hebrew culture and the feasts. -- namely Yom Teruah, - it would be more like "Turkey Day" or a Day of Great Independence" or Day of Love." What I'm hoping is that some of these great prophecy gurus and teachers, like Scott Clarke, Amir Tsarfati, Perry Stone, Gary, and rabbi Mark Biltz, or others can confirm this idiom with some non-Christian, non-messianic Jewish sources.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2017 19:00:14 GMT -6
I understand that others may not have heard of an idiom that may have been peculiar to our geographic area of the gulf coast of texas in the 1970's......but, that is not the point I was making. The point I was making is that it is easy to lose the meaning of an idiom, any idiom, in one generation of the native language. Then comparing how much more easy it would be to lose the meaning of an idiom separated by centuries, in a different culture, in a different language, and different religion. The point is that when people today say "no one knows the day or hour", they may not really understand what was being said, since it is an idiom for the Feast of Trumpets, "The Day that no one knows", which has been understood by the Jewish people for centuries.....there are plenty of references, maybe predominantly by Messianic believers which are available online, yet I do not believe that renders them any less authoritative. I have several American and Israeli Jews that I have asked about this very question, and was in fact told by one American Jew of a conservative synagogue that the phrase "the day that no one knows" is used not just for Yom Teruah, but for all Rosh Chodesh dates, or head of the month. This link I thought was particularly insightful: doubleportioninheritance.blogspot.com/2011/05/yom-teruah-day-that-no-man-knows_3315.htmlI suppose as an edit that it is sufficient for me, from the personal conversations I have had with American and Israeli Jews, non-messianic, that there is an alternate explanation for the meaning of the phrase "no man knows the day or hour" as we normally understand it in 2017 American English....and believe it behooves anyone to personally investigate whether or not the "regular" meaning is true or not, regardless of what any other teacher says, or doesn't say.....we should all be Bereans. |
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Post by nana on Sept 11, 2017 12:18:45 GMT -6
The heavens are God's time piece, they declare the Glory of God. 1 Corinthians 15:52-In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. in the twinkling of an eye Jerusalem, Israel — Sunrise, Sunset, and Daylength, September 2017 www.timeanddate.com/sun/israel/jerusalem?month=9 |
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Post by watchman35 on Sept 11, 2017 17:23:42 GMT -6
Welcome aboard nana. I have looked at the table you linked more than once myself. If, and I know it is an IF, the Lord is pointing us to a specific hour, I too am of the opinion that such an hour would be measured by and calibrated to Jerusalem's time. Assuming we are still here on the morning of Saturday, September 23rd, my plan, Deo Volente, is to be sure to be out on the street with my sign that morning up to and including the latest times listed for Israel's twilight ending. Not sure if the Lord would honor astronomical, nautical, or civil twilight? Based on my reading of the chart, the latest range of twilight-ending times would range from 6:58 to 7:55 PM Israeli time, which would translate into 10:58 to 11:55 AM where I live in the US Central time zone. I imagine it would be more than a little shock for someone to be reading the sign I carry precisely at the moment when the harpazo occurs and I am caught away...
BTW: My sign reads, "Warning. Rapture Soon. Then Judgment. Please trust in Jesus now!"
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Post by katmak on Sept 11, 2017 19:46:01 GMT -6
Watchman35, Just for giggles: now, I have to wonder if we'll be snatched via time zones at sunset. That'd be interesting and neat, and maybe a further 'no one knows the day, nor the hour'. Just imagine the Facebook and Twitter feeds! It might allow me some time to wash and blowout the family's hair to meet y'all in the clouds Sorry for hijacking, I got a bit whimsical. As you were. |
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Post by watchmanjim on Sept 13, 2017 21:27:11 GMT -6
Watchman35, Just for giggles: now, I have to wonder if we'll be snatched via time zones at sunset. That'd be interesting and neat, and maybe a further 'no one knows the day, nor the hour'. Just imagine the Facebook and Twitter feeds! It might allow me some time to wash and blowout the family's hair to meet y'all in the clouds Sorry for hijacking, I got a bit whimsical. As you were. 
LOL |
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Post by hillary on Sept 14, 2017 9:50:19 GMT -6
"...If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." Rev. 3:3 --Jesus said this! <3
Let's paraphrase it: [paraphrase] "...if therefore thou shalt watch, I will not come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt know what hour I will come upon thee." [/paraphrase]
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Post by watchman35 on Sept 14, 2017 12:04:32 GMT -6
"...If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." Rev. 3:3 --Jesus said this! <3
Let's paraphrase it: [paraphrase] "...if therefore thou shalt watch, I will not come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt know what hour I will come upon thee." [/paraphrase]That would indeed be a perfectly logical inference! |
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Sept 17, 2017 23:07:09 GMT -6
This occurred to me tonight. I agree FoT time would be to look at the timetable from Israel's night/day calculations, BUT, I ask...could the rapture be the twilight time at the 33rd parallel in Salem Oregon? That is where the solar eclipse made landfall 33 days prior. We are the predominate Christian nation...
I will edit: Forgive me all members and guests who are reading from other countries...my predominant Christian nation comment was not meant to offend. I am thinking of our founding fathers for the USA, et al... and, sadly, and ironically based on Pew research the US has fewer people claiming to be Christian than in all years past...someone has a thread on this here somewhere. sorry, it is late and I am typing in the dark..
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Post by whatif on Sept 18, 2017 22:45:20 GMT -6
This occurred to me tonight. I agree FoT time would be to look at the timetable from Israel's night/day calculations, BUT, I ask...could the rapture be the twilight time at the 33rd parallel in Salem Oregon? That is where the solar eclipse made landfall 33 days prior. That would be awesome, barbiosheepgirl! |
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Post by yardstick on Sept 22, 2017 8:40:41 GMT -6
The heavens are God's time piece, they declare the Glory of God. 1 Corinthians 15:52-In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. in the twinkling of an eye Jerusalem, Israel — Sunrise, Sunset, and Daylength, September 2017 www.timeanddate.com/sun/israel/jerusalem?month=9We had a discussion on this at this link, when I realized the Solar system, and the universe... and even every single atom in existence are all 'gears' in a clock: unsealed.boards.net/thread/411/clock |
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Post by yardstick on Sept 22, 2017 8:44:01 GMT -6
Watchman35, Just for giggles: now, I have to wonder if we'll be snatched via time zones at sunset. That'd be interesting and neat, and maybe a further 'no one knows the day, nor the hour'. Just imagine the Facebook and Twitter feeds! It might allow me some time to wash and blowout the family's hair to meet y'all in the clouds Sorry for hijacking, I got a bit whimsical. As you were. That's a nifty thought. With social media and modern communications the way it is, I would have to wonder... |
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Post by yardstick on Sept 22, 2017 8:46:04 GMT -6
This occurred to me tonight. I agree FoT time would be to look at the timetable from Israel's night/day calculations, BUT, I ask...could the rapture be the twilight time at the 33rd parallel in Salem Oregon? That is where the solar eclipse made landfall 33 days prior. That would be awesome, barbiosheepgirl! I agree! |
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