New to the board. Learning lots. Do have a question on Revelation 12:1-6 sequence. I know it has been mentioned as a possiblity of verse 4 happening after the 9/23/17 event, but in just a plain reading of those verses it appears that the third of the stars of heaven to be cast down to earth should have occurred while the woman was pregnant. Is there a reason to put it after the 9/23 event? Sorry if this was asked or answered elsewhere.
Hi Monk, I spent a lot of time here learning about the Sign before and after the event. I cant recall if I posted this as a consideration, but here is something that I observed using Stellarium.
First of all, the Sign was not visible in its entirety as it was a day time event. However, The Crown made of Leo and 3 wandering stars was seen at sunrise and the Woman having given birth to Jupiter King star was seen as the sun set. We all here had a variety of thoughts on the whole verse/actual event etc. No doubt it was intense discussions.
One thing that occurred to me (and probably others) was WHICH wandering stars made up the Sign of Rev 12:1. All but one of the 5 "visible with naked eye" stars made up verse one.
That one star not in Virgo/Leo was Saturn. Ironically, according to Stellarium, Saturn rose above the horizon at about 3 pm that day, Sept 23, 2107 (recall the hour that Christ died) Saturn was in the 'shroud' of the milkyway. It actually added to the constellation Ophiochus (the Serpent Wrestler). I used wikipedia to see what Ophiochus was about. Low and behold it has 7 stars in the Serpens head and the tail is difficult to "see" as it is in a swirling dust of a multitude of star forming activity of the milky way.
What was interesting to me were the surrounding constellations around Serpens. Serpens being in two halves, it has supporting structures and there are "9" of them. It says 10 in wikipedia, but one is repeated. Where Saturn was located, one could consider that it "added" to the picture of Ophicochus and Serpens. For my heart this said to me that the "red dragon" was wondering star Saturn. Saturn of lore matches much of this. Saturn "mocks" Jupiter according to lore..its like an "antichrist. In a controversial way (depending on how one reads the star lore and star alignment) Saturn completed this snapshot:
3And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads.
Verse three is a description of what was in the Heavens starting at about 3 pm 9/23/17. The reason for mentioning the seven diadems (corona borealis) was to identify that it is SERPENS and not Draco that John was seeing.
So then I took the verses and set them like this to view the TWO signs of Rev 12:
1Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. This is in the Heavens 9/23/2017 extremely rare, if ever at all.
3And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. This is Saturn at the feet of Ophiochus that same day at 3 pm. EW Bullinger has a great write up on the constellation Scorpio and Ophiochus and it is interesting that Saturn, a "red" star, was at the heel of Ophiochus.
Bullinger writes regarding this area of the heavens: "The real wounding in the heel was received at the Cross. It was there the scorpion struck the woman's seed. He died, but was raised again from the dead 'to destroy the works of the devil.'"
7 stars make up the "head" of Serpens, there is the "corona borealis" is always at the head of serpens, C.B. is one of the "9" supporting star arrangements surrounding Serpens, and Ophiochus is counted twice when including the indeterminant Tail portion of Serpens. Saturn completes this "10th" horn... IMHO
What about verses 2 & 4?
2Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth. 4His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born.
One could say the picture of Rev 12:1 was the reminder of Emmanuel, God with Us, the first Advent, and one could also say, we are in the birth pangs as described in prophecy before the 2nd Coming, Sion to birth the Sons of God (glorified believers, 1Cor 15:52-54, Romans 8:21-23, Col 3:4, Gal 3:26-29). The tail of Serpens could be portrayed as "sweeping" a third of the stars in how one looks at the "dust cloud" of activity of the milky way on a dark night (or the daylight removed in the Stellarium app). The "dragon" being the only wandering star NOT part of Rev 12:1, and that being Saturn. Just like Jupiter is the King star being "birthed", so to Saturn is the "dragon" standing before the woman as to devour her child.
Fast forward to Dec 21, 2020.... one of the rarest conjunctions of Jupiter/Saturn occurred. Saturn does not travel very fast around the skies, but Jupiter does one completion every 12 years. The rarity of Saturn where it was on Sep 23 and where it was when Jupiter intercepted it on 12/21/20 to me tells me we are being foretold in the heavens the 2nd Coming is very near.
There is another Sign too... just to get you thinking, See Rev 15:1. Every 8 years Venus will rise up to the 7 stars of the Plaeides. It happened April of 2020 and will again happen April of 2028.. We should talk about the Rev 15 sign some day. This one was described as Great and Marvelous... if something occurs regularly, why would it be great and marvelous? hmmm...
EnochWalked: It does feel like the very notion of time is being messed with, like there's a battle between the days being shortened and the days being lengthened. Perhaps Covid lockdowns have changed weather patterns? Very coincidental timing otherwise.
Aug 7, 2022 12:39:18 GMT -6
EnochWalked: www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-62150163 A bizarre tale that includes a Scottish island micronation (the "republic of Lamb") owned by Uri Geller, "the pyramids of Giza", "the infamous North Berwick witchcraft trials in the 1590s", and much more.
Aug 7, 2022 16:30:15 GMT -6
EnochWalked: "the current Baron of Dirleton - an Orthodox Jewish Portuguese-Brazilian entrepreneur", "a purported burial place of the legendary King Arthur", "the prophet Jeremiah & the daughter of the last king of Judah", "King Solomon's temple", "the Scotichronicon"
Aug 7, 2022 16:33:30 GMT -6
EnochWalked: It's really difficult to define a "neutral" stance, because children don't need to know that their teacher has a homosexual partner, but should be able to hear that a teacher believes in Jesus. Silence is itself a religious/political position.
Aug 7, 2022 18:52:17 GMT -6
EnochWalked: www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/08/8/7362406/ "Russia withdraws its nuclear weapons from US inspections". What don't they want NATO to know? Perhaps some weapons have gone missing, or are beyond repair.
Aug 8, 2022 17:23:32 GMT -6
SeekerofTruth: Gary, I don't use google so I'm not sure how to post here. You might want to check John 19:31 as he does mention that crucifixion day was a high day.
Aug 9, 2022 16:51:30 GMT -6
Hischild: Encoh Walked, I am in customer service and when I tell people the date, they say, already? Time is going so fast. My standard reply is to smile and say, Yes, it is because we are getting close to the end of time/this age and Jesus is coming back soon.
Aug 10, 2022 20:38:40 GMT -6