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Post by bondservant on Sept 10, 2019 12:53:38 GMT -6
Is it just me, or is this a prophecy that looks like the events of Revelation 12:12 and 20:10? Rev 12 and 20 are specifically speaking of the devil. This passage in Ezekiel is not. This is the King of Tyre, not Satan. Can see HERE for commentary on it showing so for other interpretations. Personally, I do not see it as a future prophecy, but one that has already been fulfilled. Do you not believe that scripture often has dual prophetic nature? Do you believe that the King of Tyre was: In the garden of Eden? An anointed guardian cherub? Wore a breast plate with 9 Stones? Ezekiel 28:12-16 “You were the signet of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
every precious stone was your covering, sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle; and crafted in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared. 14 You were an anointed guardian cherub. I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. 15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till unrighteousness was found in you. 16 In the abundance of your trade you were filled with violence in your midst, and you sinned; so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God, and I destroyed you, O guardian cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. |
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Post by venge on Sept 10, 2019 13:20:55 GMT -6
Rev 12 and 20 are specifically speaking of the devil. This passage in Ezekiel is not. This is the King of Tyre, not Satan. Can see HERE for commentary on it showing so for other interpretations. Personally, I do not see it as a future prophecy, but one that has already been fulfilled. Do you not believe that scripture often has dual prophetic nature? Do you believe that the King of Tyre was: In the garden of Eden? An anointed guardian cherub? Wore a breast plate with 9 Stones? Ezekiel 28:12-16 “You were the signet of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
every precious stone was your covering, sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle; and crafted in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared. 14 You were an anointed guardian cherub. I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. 15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till unrighteousness was found in you. 16 In the abundance of your trade you were filled with violence in your midst, and you sinned; so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God, and I destroyed you, O guardian cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Some scripture can have dual prophetic tendencies. But, I don’t see this particular scripture having any and the preceding verse to the garden of Eden identifies who God is speaking to: 12Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; The King of Tyre. Most of the chapter is on him and God identifies this king as a man that thru pride exalted himself as he was among the heavenlies and sat as God. That he in this self exalted position magnified his heart as if he walked in Eden as God had. This is a typical example of the OT language used throughout scripture. I recognize you don’t see it, but many do. Hence why I linked commentaries from those explaining this better than I can. There is zero mention of: 1. Devil 2.Satan 3. Any wicked name Zero mention of Satan in the text. There is only the King of Tyre as a man who exalts himself and him being referred as a lucifer or a shining one as one example is. He lifted up himself as a bright light (Lucifer) and was cast down by God. |
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Post by bondservant on Sept 10, 2019 14:14:16 GMT -6
Do you not believe that scripture often has dual prophetic nature? Do you believe that the King of Tyre was: In the garden of Eden? An anointed guardian cherub? Wore a breast plate with 9 Stones? Ezekiel 28:12-16 “You were the signet of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
every precious stone was your covering, sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle; and crafted in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared. 14 You were an anointed guardian cherub. I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. 15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till unrighteousness was found in you. 16 In the abundance of your trade you were filled with violence in your midst, and you sinned; so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God, and I destroyed you, O guardian cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Some scripture can have dual prophetic tendencies. But, I don’t see this particular scripture having any and the preceding verse to the garden of Eden identifies who God is speaking to: 12Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; The King of Tyre. Most of the chapter is on him and God identifies this king as a man that thru pride exalted himself as he was among the heavenlies and sat as God. That he in this self exalted position magnified his heart as if he walked in Eden as God had. This is a typical example of the OT language used throughout scripture. I recognize you don’t see it, but many do. Hence why I linked commentaries from those explaining this better than I can. There is zero mention of: 1. Devil 2.Satan 3. Any wicked name Zero mention of Satan in the text. There is only the King of Tyre as a man who exalts himself and him being referred as a lucifer or a shining one as one example is. He lifted up himself as a bright light (Lucifer) and was cast down by God. guardian cherub and King of Tyre are mentioned twice. 1 ... prince of Tyre14 ... You were an anointed guardian cherub. 11 ... king of Tyre16... and I destroyed you, O guardian cherub, |
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Post by venge on Sept 11, 2019 7:49:03 GMT -6
bondservantYes, I understand the text. I’m not sure what you’re trying to explain though. Do you understand that the use of the garden of Eden doesn’t always mean literally Eden? Eden is delight. The king being in the garden is his being in prosperity just as the garden was. The king as a Cherub reflects the light he gave off and his elevated heart as “the anointed” that “covereth”. God is the one who covers the land with a cloud. But this self exalted man made himself like a high one upon the stars. And anyone that exalts himself will be abased and cast down says the almighty. When reading the chapter, look at who God is addressing. Name all the people. Then look at why God is addressing this man. The reason. Next look at his punishment. Lastly, look at “why” God described him in such a colorful way. Does the description match his pride and uplifted heart and the reason for his fall? Does the description or similar descriptions happen with others such as Edom, Babylon, Assyria, Egypt etc... What does the correct exegesis say? The KJV used the Latin vulgate for Lucifer in the one text. What do other scripts say? Google “is Lucifer Satan” and look for in depth studies from well known writers and see if they address it in a way better than I. I can only offer suggestions. And ask you to pray about it as anything we look into. All our positions we hold need to be held but we still need to be open to can it be wrong. Scripture will show what’s wrong based on scripture, not gut feeling. There are many great articles on this subject that go into depth of the history and writing style to say it refers to a man. Either way, I ask God to show to us both the truth.
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Post by breathoflife on Sept 12, 2019 18:44:55 GMT -6
Who is Satan, the anti-Christ and the false prophet and how are they related to each other?is Satan omnipresent? What does it mean that he’ll was created for the Satan and the fallen angels.when are the first men thrown into the lake or fire. Where are Satan, the anti-Christ and the false all presently at?
what does it mean when we are told anti-christ “was, is not now and will be again.’ Of the Christ we are told He ‘was, is and will be again.’ If antChrist is not the guardian cherub from Eden per ez. 28 when and where was he?
what is the least and worst known topic in Scripture? Satan, anti-christ the false prophet and their roles throughout Scriptue and especially in prophecy.
i fell on my face four days ago or as I like to say”I fought the floor and the floor won. Found some unknown heart issues which were seeking to remedy with a split lip and some broken ribs. May not be able to respond quickly and if not at all I will taken the road to Emmaus bible study the Lord offers just waiting for the rest of our family coming up when He is ready to bring us. We really don’t have to mourn like no hopers.
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Post by venge on Sept 13, 2019 10:04:15 GMT -6
breathoflifeYou said: what does it mean when we are told anti-christ “was, is not now and will be again.’ Of the Christ we are told He ‘was, is and will be again.’ If antChrist is not the guardian cherub from Eden per ez. 28 when and where was he? The antichrist is never shown to have been, is not and will be my friend. The text you described is referring to the beast of the sea. That beast, is identified by Daniel as the 4th kingdom. Kingdoms do die and can come back. People do not. Christ was the first, then at his coming, those that belong to him at the first resurrection. Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. This follows Rev 13 where this 4th beast kingdom comes out of the sea. Daniel 7:3 shows all 4 beasts are kingdoms 3And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another They come from the sea where the sea is the nations of the world. Literally kingdoms. Men come from the earth as Adam. The leaders of these kingdoms are also beast but they come from the earth per Daniel 7:17 17These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth. Beast of the sea =kingdoms Beast of the earth=men that rule the kingdom The antichrist is not was, but will be. That is a kingdom
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Post by breathoflife on Sept 13, 2019 11:10:06 GMT -6
Some scripture can have dual prophetic tendencies. But, I don’t see this particular scripture having any and the preceding verse to the garden of Eden identifies who God is speaking to: 12Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; The King of Tyre. Most of the chapter is on him and God identifies this king as a man that thru pride exalted himself as he was among the heavenlies and sat as God. That he in this self exalted position magnified his heart as if he walked in Eden as God had. This is a typical example of the OT language used throughout scripture. I recognize you don’t see it, but many do. Hence why I linked commentaries from those explaining this better than I can. There is zero mention of: 1. Devil 2.Satan 3. Any wicked name Zero mention of Satan in the text. There is only the King of Tyre as a man who exalts himself and him being referred as a lucifer or a shining one as one example is. He lifted up himself as a bright light (Lucifer) and was cast down by God. guardian cherub and King of Tyre are mentioned twice. 1 ... prince of Tyre14 ... You were an anointed guardian cherub. 11 ... king of Tyre16... and I destroyed you, O guardian cherub, there is little it seems in-depth study on anti-Christ. Without our understanding of these beings we will remain at a disadvantage. It has always been o tenet of warfare to not know your enemy is to be at a disadvantage. Let’s ask a few basic questions. Who are Satan, anti-Christ and the false prophet? What is their relationship to each other? Where are they presently located? first, related or unrelated? Satan is shown in Scripture as a trinity. Unlike the God-head who are Holy the trinity who opposes God is evil. In each trinity there is father, son and spirit. We know and understand the Holy Trinity but the trinity of evil not so much. As we know God is God and the rest aren’t. Only God has certain traits such as omnipresent. Being God He is everywhere at once Satan can’t pull off that same feat.satan like men is only were he is not all over. So when we are told Satan is in heaven day and night accussing the brethren he must be there. Then we are told anti-christ is in the Bottomless pit and nowhere else. Lastly we are told the false prophet is at work in the air. Three but one one but three. In the re. We are told of the unclean spirit is at work in the world. None of these three can be present except where they are at present. AntChrist and the false prophet will in the time just before the return of the Lord with the fallen angel armies that come up from the Bootomless Pit come before the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord. On the Day of the Lord those two will be defeated and thrown into LOF. At that time Scripture shows us Satan be led down from heaven and locked in the Abyss for. Thousand years. Then He is defeated and thrown into LOF where anti-christ false prophet have been held for 1,000 years. |
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Post by venge on Sept 13, 2019 19:20:15 GMT -6
The unholy trinity is an unbiblical assertion not found in scripture. It is used in many Churches to support the idea of Satan, Antichrist and false prophet trio. But even that is incorrect. The 3 thrown into the LoF are Satan, the False prophet and the beast of the sea. No Antichrist and why is that? The beast of the sea is a kingdom. So, who is the antichrist then? I’ll let you look into that.
In each kingdom, of the 4, 1 is a king. Only one, not 2 per Daniel 7.
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Post by breathoflife on Sept 15, 2019 4:47:21 GMT -6
The Judgment of Satan
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Satan is about to be judged do you agree? When Satan has been judged where is he sent? Who has been imprisoned in the LOF for a thousand years. You claim the Beast is a nation where in Scripture does a kingdom get thrown into the LOF? Scripture tells us the Hell was not created for men it was created for satan and his fallen angels. You are correct in saying Scripture does not come right out and say the Beast is Anti-Christ it is assumed that you will figure out his satanic identity and apply all Scripture says how he counterfeits the True Christ and claiming His throne as the promised Messiah. Would anti-Messiah be a better term to use for him? Satan is released from his prison which is the same Bottomless pit anti-Messiah and the false prophet had been held in a thousand years earlier. At this point there are no men in hell or the LOF. Only Satan and his fallen angels are thrown into the LOF. Then after them death and hades is thrown in and its time for the first resurrection.
The Judgment of the Dead
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Human men are now going to be judged and then thrown into the LOF where Satan, anti-Messiah and the false prophet are being tormented day and night. Again please establish from Scripture how Satan, anti- messiah and the false prophet were thrown before the Great White Thrown Judgment took place. These three are not normal men, not nation are anything hell was not created for Satan and his fallen angels. If you wish to be technical an anti-Christ is anyone who denies the Christ are they not? This anti-Christ denies Christ and everything else that is God. How much leeway do we need to call this satanic fallen angel anti-Christ if he meets the biblical criteria that identifies who an anti-Christ is or isn't can we not know he is at the very least an anti-Christ. But he must be more than that because he is a charter member in hell and no man is judged for life or hell until the GWTJ.
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Post by breathoflife on Sept 15, 2019 5:23:01 GMT -6
guardian cherub and King of Tyre are mentioned twice. 1 ... prince of Tyre14 ... You were an anointed guardian cherub. 11 ... king of Tyre16... and I destroyed you, O guardian cherub, does Scripture tell who was in the Garden? It tells of only four beings in the Garden, The Lord, Adam and Eve. The fourth member is identified by who translated the original and said this being was a Serpent but the same word he translated as serpent also has a meaning of a Bright and shining one the description of angels when they were sent by the Lord to minister to Man and ever since then He sends them where and when they are to go but they are described as ministers of fire. The angels, fallen and unfallen are said to be stars does that mean they are humongous balls of fire? Also if this guardian cherub was in the Garden when else was it? The Garden was created by the Lord for Adam was Satan there before Adam? I always believed that Adam was the first resident of Eden. The Serpent/ fallen angels can no more pass the sword of flashing fire than anyone else so it could no be after the Lord closed the way. Nothing He closes can anyone open He closes and no way to close what He has opened. The Christ came as the Good Shepherd seeking His lost sheep. We are told that the destroyer of the sheep known as The Evil Shepherd and the guardian cherub anti-Christ came and denied not that God is God no he deceived the flock by denying what God spoke. He was a murderer and a robber from his creation and here was the first murders he recorded while robbing the Lord's sheep. The Lord spoke of Man as the pinnacle of His creation but He also promised to gain the knowledge of good and evil that dying you will die. Two deaths one physical which see play out in each of our lives. The other is the death of spiritually. The spiritual died that day and if left to rot and fester, a way to describe what we can not see or touch and all the rotting of that dead spirit leeches its poison every minute of every day pumping spiritual poison into us. The flesh could not and cannot be redeemed the Lord allowing us to die was one of His greatest gifts to us because those who have been spiritually reborn Is spiritually a New Man and the dead spirit in us continues to destroy itself and never touches what is born of the second breathing life in us as he imparts part of Himself with this breath the Holy Spirit. Satan has many names and in Scripture King of Tyre is an interesting name to be sure. If I am not mistaken in the original boundries God set forth the area of Tyre was part of that land. When Abram and Sarai believed in the Promised Son He breathed outwardly as He did when breathing life into Adam and part of Him became part of us and Abram became Abraham and Sarai became Sarah with this addition to there names when they believed it is a soft breathing out. Every time they would hear or think of their names they had a reminder of that great work He has done. Each of has aname only God knows and I believe that name will have had His breath, Holy Spirit, that will have part of Him who has given us new birth and the Holy Spirit. One day if you believe He is returning for His Bride, He will call each of us by that new name and we will only have eternity to marvel Him and sing His praises forever. The real problem with translating it as serpent is when the Israelites have the snakes set upon them and the only thing that can save is to look in faith on Him who hung on His cross is set to be a serpent. The Lord does not mix up illustrations, a translator can. Instead of looking up to the Bright Shining One the Angel of the Lord they are supposed to look to the same being, the Serpent, who caused the Fall to begin with. Everything that God undertook from the slaying of the Lamb before the foundations were set in place to do what John the Immerser would openly declare, "Behold the Lamb." Everything pointed to the Lamb and His cross not the serpent on the cross. imho |
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Post by venge on Sept 15, 2019 11:23:53 GMT -6
The Judgment of Satan 7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Satan is about to be judged do you agree? When Satan has been judged where is he sent? Who has been imprisoned in the LOF for a thousand years. You claim the Beast is a nation where in Scripture does a kingdom get thrown into the LOF? Scripture tells us the Hell was not created for men it was created for satan and his fallen angels. You are correct in saying Scripture does not come right out and say the Beast is Anti-Christ it is assumed that you will figure out his satanic identity and apply all Scripture says how he counterfeits the True Christ and claiming His throne as the promised Messiah. Would anti-Messiah be a better term to use for him? Satan is released from his prison which is the same Bottomless pit anti-Messiah and the false prophet had been held in a thousand years earlier. At this point there are no men in hell or the LOF. Only Satan and his fallen angels are thrown into the LOF. Then after them death and hades is thrown in and its time for the first resurrection. The Judgment of the Dead 11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. Human men are now going to be judged and then thrown into the LOF where Satan, anti-Messiah and the false prophet are being tormented day and night. Again please establish from Scripture how Satan, anti- messiah and the false prophet were thrown before the Great White Thrown Judgment took place. These three are not normal men, not nation are anything hell was not created for Satan and his fallen angels. If you wish to be technical an anti-Christ is anyone who denies the Christ are they not? This anti-Christ denies Christ and everything else that is God. How much leeway do we need to call this satanic fallen angel anti-Christ if he meets the biblical criteria that identifies who an anti-Christ is or isn't can we not know he is at the very least an anti-Christ. But he must be more than that because he is a charter member in hell and no man is judged for life or hell until the GWTJ. You said: Rev 20:10 state the following: So, we can agree the beast and the false prophet are in the LoF at this time. First, lets look at the False prophet. Rev 13:11 says, So, we now have a better description showing the beast and the false prophet (beast of the earth) are the ones in the LoF. One is a beast and one is a beast of the earth. So, if there are 2 beasts, what is the first one? Rev 13:1 says, So let me start again. Now we have 2 beasts that are thrown into the LoF. 1. a beast of the sea 2. a beast of the earth Now, I will take you back to Daniel 7 as I stated earlier. Four beasts come out of the sea. Verse 4 describes Babylon. Verse 5 describes Media-Persia. Verse 6 describes Grecian and the 4th is Unknown. The Daniel asks the angel in Rev 7:19 about the last unknown beast that comes out of the sea. The angel grants him and answers it: So each Beast from the sea is a Kingdom. Each Kingdom is ruled by a King. These Kings come from the earth. So Kings come out of the earth and they rule Kingdoms that come out of the sea. And the sea is all the nations of the world filled by waters that are peoples, tongues, tribes...they all form the great sea. The First Beast of the sea was Babylon as shown in Daniel and was ruled by the beast of the earth: Nebuchadnezzar The second beast of the sea was Media-Persia and ruled by a beast of the earth: Cyrus the Great The third beast of the sea was Grecia and ruled by a beast of the earth: Alexander The 4th beast of the sea is a Kingdom unknown and will be ruled by the beast of the earth: The False Prophet. Scriptural truths. You said: You're right. That is part of that kingdom. All the citizens of the 4th kingdom are men that will be tossed into a LoF. Then you stated: I did just that above. And I never said they are thrown in before the Great White Throne. I will post what I said below: Rev 19:20 states: That happens in the millennial reign of Christ when he removes out of His kingdom all that work iniquity. Satan is tossed into the LoF AFTER the millennial reign when he has been aloud to tempt the nations once more. During Christ reign, Satan is only bound into the bottomless pit. So, to answer your question of how I establish scripture to come to this conclusion...I don't; I am a man. But Scripture and the word of God establishes it as I demonstrated above. Edit: Your are looking for a False Prophet and an Antichrist. Show me the antichrist in Revelation because he is the false prophet and does not exist anywhere else in that book. Look at the characteristics of the little horn in Daniel and see if they match the characteristics of the false prophet. =P I think it'll amaze you. I know it did for me. |
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Post by breathoflife on Sept 15, 2019 12:45:14 GMT -6
The beast out of the earth is a fallen angel who comes as not only a counterfeit of Christ but the ultimate denier of Christ who is anti-Christ? Anyone who does so yet this fulfillment of all that unholy denying cannot be called anti- Christ? If this title is not deserving to be applied to him why not. You seem to be hung up on titles which is odd because the Beast does nothing to tell you who this being is and what he is doing. Just as Christ is a title of the Lord Jesus so this Beast has different titles. Satan and the Dragon two different entities or just different titles and aspects of who he is?
If as you claim one one of the beasts is not a fallen angel they must stand before the GWTJ before they are cast into the LOF. There is no way around this all MEN are appointed to die once then the judgment. Those are thrown into the LOF the second death. Neither Satan or either beast are resurrected judged and then suffer the second death of men in the LOF.
Yes es I concede Scripture reveals to us a number of beasts and the reason for this is to reveal to men that every kingdom, every country has come forward through the continued rebellion of Cain and his spiritual descendants. Yes there were literal kingdoms who were shown to us throughout Scripture but then a kingdom arises ‘unlike’ any of the previous kingdoms yet it is describe as being spiritually just like previous human kingdoms. So in what way is this final kingdom different than the previous Gentile kingdoms? It is the end time kingdom of apostate Israel having accepted anti Christ who reigns with him for “one hour” not a literal hour. It will probably be in length the final 3 and a half years of the 70th Week of Years.
The trinity of evil is a reality I showed how Satan , the beast and the false prophet are in three separate places, Satan before God accusing the brethren day and night, the beast in the Bottomless Pit/ Abyss and the ‘spirit’ of the beast/false prophet at work in the world. These three are individual fallen angels in places no ordinary man can be. How is this accomplished. If as you say the beast out of the Bottomless Pit is a nation or ordinary man how did they enter there. Where is a nation shown or kingdom shown thrown into the Abyss chained as a prisoner waiting for the day not just anti-whoever is released but all the fallen angels held for just this time of judgment, not the GWTJ , everyone but the “Angel of the Abyss” one of those fallen angels. His title telling us he is not an ordinary man. Sorry my friend anti-Christ is a reality he is shown in the revelation as the “Dragon’ out of whom come three unclean spirits haSatan, the angel of the Abyss who is the beast and the false prophet. One dragon consisting of three evil fallen angels and three but one. You may call it anything you would like that is certainly your right but a trinity by any other name is a trinity. Each one of those oppose the Person in the Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Spirit.
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Post by venge on Sept 15, 2019 15:16:24 GMT -6
The beast out of the earth is a fallen angel who comes as not only a counterfeit of Christ but the ultimate denier of Christ who is anti-Christ? Anyone who does so yet this fulfillment of all that unholy denying cannot be called anti- Christ? If this title is not deserving to be applied to him why not. You seem to be hung up on titles which is odd because the Beast does nothing to tell you who this being is and what he is doing. Just as Christ is a title of the Lord Jesus so this Beast has different titles. Satan and the Dragon two different entities or just different titles and aspects of who he is? If as you claim one one of the beasts is not a fallen angel they must stand before the GWTJ before they are cast into the LOF. There is no way around this all MEN are appointed to die once then the judgment. Those are thrown into the LOF the second death. Neither Satan or either beast are resurrected judged and then suffer the second death of men in the LOF. Yes es I concede Scripture reveals to us a number of beasts and the reason for this is to reveal to men that every kingdom, every country has come forward through the continued rebellion of Cain and his spiritual descendants. Yes there were literal kingdoms who were shown to us throughout Scripture but then a kingdom arises ‘unlike’ any of the previous kingdoms yet it is describe as being spiritually just like previous human kingdoms. So in what way is this final kingdom different than the previous Gentile kingdoms? It is the end time kingdom of apostate Israel having accepted anti Christ who reigns with him for “one hour” not a literal hour. It will probably be in length the final 3 and a half years of the 70th Week of Years. The trinity of evil is a reality I showed how Satan , the beast and the false prophet are in three separate places, Satan before God accusing the brethren day and night, the beast in the Bottomless Pit/ Abyss and the ‘spirit’ of the beast/false prophet at work in the world. These three are individual fallen angels in places no ordinary man can be. How is this accomplished. If as you say the beast out of the Bottomless Pit is a nation or ordinary man how did they enter there. Where is a nation shown or kingdom shown thrown into the Abyss chained as a prisoner waiting for the day not just anti-whoever is released but all the fallen angels held for just this time of judgment, not the GWTJ , everyone but the “Angel of the Abyss” one of those fallen angels. His title telling us he is not an ordinary man. Sorry my friend anti-Christ is a reality he is shown in the revelation as the “Dragon’ out of whom come three unclean spirits haSatan, the angel of the Abyss who is the beast and the false prophet. One dragon consisting of three evil fallen angels and three but one. You may call it anything you would like that is certainly your right but a trinity by any other name is a trinity. Each one of those oppose the Person in the Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Spirit. I gave you scriptural truth. You choose not to believe and that's your right. But if you want to believe something else, something that you cannot show me in scripture exists, but is what you think it is because you were taught it, learned it or what have you...I cannot in good conscience continue talk about it with you. Unless you can show me scripture, which you have not done. Your accusation that a kingdom is a fallen angel and Satan is a fallen angel....I just cant. If you want to believe Satan is fallen, I will just say I disagree and let that be that. Plenty of posts on other threads document why I disagree. To suggest a kingdom is a fallen angel, I really don't understand that. To suggest the anti-Christ is a fallen angel (if referring to heavenly angels)...now I am really confused. Was the previous 3 beasts of the earth fallen angels too? They were men and God even stated so in OT books. Then you said: Anti-christ is a dragon? Well, I'd say...yes..he belongs to the family of serpents as do many wicked men. But as the 7 headed dragon? You've lost me there. I'm not going to touch that. I would suggest trying to do what I had mentioned earlier. Look at the little horn and false prophet and connect the dots. Do the same with the 7 headed dragon in ref. to leviathan, serpent in the sea etc.. |
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Post by breathoflife on Sept 15, 2019 15:31:00 GMT -6
thanks I think we should let it go here. I thank the Lord for you and ask Him to guide us in the light. take care
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Post by breathoflife on Sept 16, 2019 15:17:25 GMT -6
MODERATOR: This post was moved from another thread because the subject matter is covered in this thread.
Ez. 28:Who is the being that is revealed in this passage? Lots of stuff to talk about looking forward to finding out Who Dat? Ez.28:
"11 Moreover the word of Jehovah came unto me, saying, 12 Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty."
vv. 11- 12, He is given the title of the King of Tyre and that is about all that might lead someone to think is just a normal man. Full of wisdom and perfect in his beauty. This being is going to mimic the Christ who spoke as no other had as One with authority. I believe this being will seem to know the secrets that have eluded men and no one will be able to outfox him. In contrast of the Lord this being will have all the external trappings men who walk by sight and not faith desire in this world. The true Lamb had nothing about Him that would draw men to Him. He knocked on hearts then and now and will until the last heart opens to accept Him.
"13 Thou wast in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, the topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was in thee; in the day that thou wast created they were prepared."
Vs. 13, this being was in Eden and must have been one of the four beings shown in Eden. He could not be The Christ. Nor was he Adam of Eve that kind of narrows the candidates down to one, the Serpent. If this is true and I believe it could very well be true then it wasn't a snake who came to Eve it was a guardian cherub which leads to this possibility that the word translate as Serpent could just as easily translated as Bright and Shining used to speak of an Angel. It appears Lucifer had been raised up for one of the most honored jobs in all of heaven, Worship Leader. Was Lucifer the vainest being ever given the job of leading the worship of God the Father but the Son also who he is the arch enemy of and would have not oly worship Him but lead others to do so as well. Before we look at his attire I delight in this next morsel if these things are true. Worship, true and false worship is characterized by falling on your stomach being part of our worship. Oh what a sentence given to him in the Garden where he would be in the very position he rebelled of in heaven. Can't wait for the final act when every knee will bend before our Lord before unbelieving men and angels are thrown into the LOF. Satan bowing before our Lord oh thank you not letting us miss out on seeing that.
Now the way he is dressed looks almost like the way the High Priest dressed except the Jewish High Priest had 12 stones while this guardian cherub has nine which also is the number most used to represent judgment. Another interesting but maybe meaningless coincidence? I think it pictures how he is coming to apostate Israel who will believe he is the Messiah. Christ is not the Lord's name it is the title to one of the Ofices He holds, a few others are King of kings and my personal favorite for our look at Who Dat is our Great High Priest who when He returns and takes His rightful place on the throne of David as our King and Great High Priest so again we seem to be shown this guardian cherub who was in Eden both counterfeiting and opposing the Christ. Did he do this in Eden with Woman the counterfeit of the True Great High Priest who came and walked in the Garden with His flock as the Good Shepherd who lays down His life for the sheep as opposed to the Evil Shepherd who came to kill he sheep and is coming again disguised as a Lamb. Maybe as the future man of peace the High Priest of Israel.
"14 Thou wast the anointed cherub that covereth: and I set thee, [so that] thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire."
Vs. 14, we seem to be told where the Garden of Eden was on God's Holy Mountain the same place Adam and Eve and their sons brought their offerings on the eastside of the Garden. The same place Abraham would bring Isaac to be sacrificed only to find a Lamb held by his horns, the picture used to illustrate the lambs strength, Years and Years later the Roman soldiers and the apostate portion of Israel had the True Lamb and instead of thicket on His head it was a crown of thorns. Funny thorns illustrate sin, missing their intend mark as branches, and when the Lord seemed to be completely helpless they symbolical placed the sins off the whole worid on the Scapegoats head, when the Scapegoat rose all His wounds were there except the sins of the world the crown of thorns the bill is paid but can only be gained through faith in Jesus Christ.
This being walked among the fiery stones who are the other angels which again brings before us the fact that they come as ministers of fire bright and shining.
"15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till unrighteousness was found in thee."
Vs. 15, the description continues on why this being is not a human king of Tyre. Perfect he was created what he was a murderer and robber is all on him not God who is not the Author of sin. This being whose beauty seemed to rival God Himself was created by God in that manner. God is not insecure in His goodness, if you would. But that beauty along with his other traits led him to believe he not Jesus Christ was God. Oops!
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