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Post by Gary on May 22, 2017 8:50:08 GMT -6
Lots of meat to digest here. Good stuff. Jim, interesting about your hunch. I'm not sure if that's a seal in and of itself, but I will say some definite changes have taken place that have suddenly made a peace agreement achievable:
1. Abbas suddenly changes his tune and sets aside all preconditions.
2. Hamas becomes politically moderated (at least superficially) allowing Fatah to move towards an agreement.
3. Abbas' government calls for two embassies in Jerusalem (one Israeli).
4. Abbas says ready to sign agreement.
5. Arab countries Egypt and Saudi Arabia ready for agreement.
6. Abbas says willing to acknowledge land swaps.
This is big fellas.
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Post by whatif on May 22, 2017 10:33:36 GMT -6
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Post by watchmanjim on May 22, 2017 14:48:01 GMT -6
Yes, all you've said, I think is relevant. I get the sense that the first 4 seals especially are multi-meaning, multi-faceted. A rider on a white horse going forth to conquer--quite possibly the angelic horseman has been at work throughout the church age, but I think there may be an earthly correlation going on right now. Mr. Trump has gotten on his white horse and has gone forth conquering and to conquer--with peace deals, and not with armament. The first seal talks about the rider conquering, but not making war. He is making a majorly historic trip right now--sallying forth to all three major religious centers of the world, and to the center of humanism (Brussels arguably is that) and then to the G7 Summit. He is riding forth conquering and to conquer, but not making war. A hunch or gut feeling--no proof for it.  |
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Post by watchmanjim on May 22, 2017 14:52:48 GMT -6
Whatif, I don't know about the glowing orb, except that it has the outlines of the continents on it, and so it is in one sense the globe. Exactly what they meant by it, or whether Trump is now a blood-brother moslem shaman as a result (don't take me too seriously), I don't know.
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Post by whatif on May 22, 2017 16:39:11 GMT -6
Mr. Trump has gotten on his white horse and has gone forth conquering and to conquer--with peace deals, and not with armament. The first seal talks about the rider conquering, but not making war. He is making a majorly historic trip right now--sallying forth to all three major religious centers of the world, and to the center of humanism (Brussels arguably is that) and then to the G7 Summit. He is riding forth conquering and to conquer, but not making war. His election alone was an amazing event, watchmanjim! If I recall, the type of crown given to the rider of the white horse was a victor's wreath, as if a contest or a sporting event was won. Could his election be connected with this, as he was a victor of a heated contest? |
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Post by watchmanjim on May 22, 2017 18:20:06 GMT -6
Yes, I've thought the same thing. I've thought he might be connected to the white horse rider from the very beginning. I may not have stated it before.
If that's true--watch out--red horse next.
And if my other hunch is correct, that correlates with the Second Dan. 7 Beast-- the bear. . . . . .
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Post by whatif on May 22, 2017 19:06:17 GMT -6
The red horse has so many possibilities lately--the Syria arena with Russia, the North Korean threat, ISIS and other Islamic terrorism, just to name a few. May the Lord protect all my brothers and sisters in Christ around the world, as well as those who will one day be believers in Him.
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Post by watchmanjim on May 22, 2017 21:00:55 GMT -6
The conventional wisdom has said this will not take place before the rapture. I don't know for sure.
Also, think of the possibility of the four horsemen being more localized to Israel and the Middle East, but the trumpet and bowl judgments being worldwide. Just a thought.
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Post by Gary on May 23, 2017 8:28:40 GMT -6
I may have shared this before, so forgive me if I'm being redundant. I'm open to the seals being opened before the Trib, but I lean towards the traditional dispensational view for a few reasons: 1. The seals are opened in Heaven by the Lamb. This is witnessed by John and the 24 elders in Heaven. Revelation 4:1 being a type of the rapture and the 24 elders being a type of the glorified Church, this would indicate the seals are opened shortly after the rapture without needing to strain the text or else John and the elders could not witness it from Heaven. 2. The first six seals directly parallel in chronological order with the signs given in the Olivet Discourse: www.nowtheendbegins.com/matthew-24-has-all-6-seals-from-revelation/3. The signs on the earth in the Olivet Discourse are called "the beginning of birth pains". Isaiah 66 tells us the birth we're looking for happens before Israel goes into labor and before her pains come - in other words, before the Trib. 4. There are definitely two striking similarities between the Rev 7 multitude and the rapture: every nation is represented and they are before the Throne. However, I think that's where the similarities end. Even though a case could be made that "out of Great Tribulation" means something similar to Lot and his daughters being removed from Sodom, I think that would be a secondary reading. We do know there will be Trib saints who will be martyred and from a variety of Scriptures the antichrist will have power over the saints to persecute and kill them. Surely there will be representatives from every nation - the "gleanings" as it were. Zechariah 14 indicates that there will be Gentile survivors from different nations and other prophets indicate likewise (Isaiah 19:25 for instance). Gentile trib saints will be raised at the end of the Trib (Revelation 20:4). Also the context to me indicates Trib saints here (they're holding palm branches, a sign of Tabernacles, which is an end trib celebration, and the angel tells John "They shall hunger no more, neither thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any scorching heat", which connects to specific judgments during the Tribulation: Revelation 6:5-6/Matthew 24:7 and Revelation 16:8). All this being said, I could be totally wrong. I also think prophecies can be fulfilled multiple times and there are numerous examples of this. This is why I can be open to both views. In other words, I agree with the traditional pre-trib/dispensational view of Matthew 24 and the seals, yet I can also see with my one two eyes that there signs already happening that seem to line up (at least partially) with the signs in the Olivet Discourse. You might call these "shadows". God bless brothers and sisters. |
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Post by watchmanjim on May 23, 2017 9:26:17 GMT -6
I agree, Gary, it's not totally clear, by any means. I'm leaning to a multiple-fulfillment of some of these events, with reoccurring and culminating instances. Perhaps the horsemen come out in full strength once the covenant is made with many, and they ride throughout the seven years. If they represent angelic messengers of God, then this would make sense.
Much has been made of the massive use of the number 7 in Revelation, but Revelation is also a book of 4's as well.
The 4 good beasts (living creatures) introduce John to the 4 horsemen. I keep wondering if there are correlating clues between the 4 living creatures, the 4 Gospels, Ezekiel's 4 cherubim, Zechariah's horsemen, and the 4 horsemen of the seals.
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Post by BrazenLaver on May 23, 2017 11:04:57 GMT -6
Guys please I love you!
In August a sign is going from the east coast of America to the West Coast!
The Great America Eclipse!
This is Great!
This is a Great Sign!
This has not happened since 1979!!!!!
This is going to happen 1 month and 2 days before the sign of September! Do you guys not see these signs!
I guess we will just be stuck looking down at our cell phones as a distraction right!
God said specifically to look UP!
Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
The sun and moon are Signs!!!!!!!!!!!! Of what?
REDEMPTION!
SALVATION!
That's why the people of Revelation seven say!
Rev.7:9-10 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. Why are they from everywhere; all nations, all tongues! Because the gospel has been preached to the Whole World!
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Guys this has been unsealed for you to see!
Peter told Jerusalem about the church of Jesus Christ
This was not just for Israel but for all flesh!
 Acts 2:17-21 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
The last days had a beginning 2000 years ago and the last days will have an ending sometime very soon!
What did these servants do!
They testified in tongues!
So the gospel could be taught to everyone, every language and everywhere!
Do you not see the end from the beginning!
 This sign is before the great and notable day my friends! It is here!
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Post by watchmanjim on May 23, 2017 11:48:53 GMT -6
Good, B.L., and the eclipse will pass right over my house.
One point of technicality, though, the eclipse is 33 days before the sign. Because August has 31 days. You are right that it is one month and two days, but it is 33 days total, a number I also find significant. If we understand correctly, Jesus was 33 years old when He died and resurrected. 33 I think is a significant number.
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Post by whatif on May 23, 2017 11:52:02 GMT -6
This has not happened since 1979!!!!!
...
This sign is before the great and notable day my friends! It is here!
BrazenLaver, that is so awesome! I'm eager to see that Great American Eclipse! I should mention an eclipse crossing America actually hasn't happened since 1918. The 1979 eclipse was over the northwestern part of the nation, and I was able to see it here way back when I was in junior high school. That was an awesome event for me to see--I remember how eerie it was as the sky grew dark.
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Post by whatif on May 23, 2017 11:54:37 GMT -6
One point of technicality, though, the eclipse is 33 days before the sign. And it's 30 days from Rosh Hashanah. The eclipse happens on the first day of Teshuvah! So exciting to think about! |
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Post by watchmanjim on May 23, 2017 11:55:02 GMT -6
Yes, Whatif is right-- 1918 was the last time this happened across the breadth of the USA.
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