|
|
Post by rt on Sept 3, 2017 20:40:14 GMT -6
RT, your model is now my basic go-to theory. I may have some questions or differences about some of the details, but I have a feeling you are far more right than wrong about what you have put. So--where do we pick up with the narrative, after this break we've taken? Well that's a good question. My intent was to share why I believe a revised view of a pre-tribulation rapture, I think I covered that fairly well. Where would you like to "pick up"? Do you have any more questions regarding my view? Maybe I can start a new thread on a different topic. I have done considerable study and have written a lot on prophecy (for myself), is there anything in particular you want to discuss? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2017 21:14:28 GMT -6
I owe an apology as I believe I misinterpreted rt's post above, hence the edit!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2017 21:36:44 GMT -6
I have ideas....they could be completely wrong! I want to know what everyone thinks, even if not my current thoughts.....if my thoughts are incorrect, that is not as important to me rather than what is the truth...I need to know the truth, whether it is my idea or work or not........a deep seated, deeply rooted desire for truth, not of my volition, but a God given desire.....no more that anyone else's.....I need and have to know what is truth, and the greatest thing about it all is that it will be revealed soon, by the Creator, and we will all know, and then it won't matter who was right or wrong.....
Shalom!
|
|
|
|
Post by watchmanjim on Sept 4, 2017 10:06:41 GMT -6
RT, your model is now my basic go-to theory. I may have some questions or differences about some of the details, but I have a feeling you are far more right than wrong about what you have put. So--where do we pick up with the narrative, after this break we've taken? Well that's a good question. My intent was to share why I believe a revised view of a pre-tribulation rapture, I think I covered that fairly well. Where would you like to "pick up"? Do you have any more questions regarding my view? Maybe I can start a new thread on a different topic. I have done considerable study and have written a lot on prophecy (for myself), is there anything in particular you want to discuss? Yes, maybe a separate thread. I was enjoying and learning from your commentary of Revelation, and it stopped at some point. I'm not sure what was the last part you covered, but I know you at least got into Chapter 7. |
|
|
|
Post by rt on Sept 14, 2017 10:33:23 GMT -6
I just wanted to point out a couple things concerning my view about the rapture
One thing I have been thinking about is the events of the opening of the sixth seal, and how the people on earth hide themselves.
I looked again at the passage and wondered if the people of earth hide in anticipation of events or in reaction to events. It seems fairly clear to me now that they hide in reaction to events, in particular the presence of Him who sits on the throne. Which is interesting to me. What exactly will they see when the sky is split? I still contend that these people will be deceived into believing that they are experiencing the end of the 70th week - the day of wrath.
The other thing is that these events happen at the full moon, which would prohibit this view of the rapture from taking place on Rosh Hashannah, which occurs at the new moon.
One other point is the falling stars, I wonder if they are actual stars falling, perhaps ateroids, or if they are the angels in league with Satan falling because of the battle that takes place in heaven (Rev 12) between Micheal and the angels of God and the dragon and his angel armies. Or perhaps both???
Just some thoughts
|
|
|
|
Post by mike on Sept 14, 2017 11:15:56 GMT -6
rt, does that blow up the rapture theory occurring this year on the FoT? the full moon is Oct 5th (i guess 4th in Israel)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 11:52:37 GMT -6
Yes, It is always a full moon on the first of Tabernacles....
|
|
|
|
Post by rt on Sept 14, 2017 15:45:01 GMT -6
rt , does that blow up the rapture theory occurring this year on the FoT? the full moon is Oct 5th (i guess 4th in Israel) Not necessarily, it is possible that the rapture could precede the events described at the opening of the sixth seal, though I tend toward the contrary. The feast of Tabernacles IMO is a better fit for the rapture than Trumpets. Tabernacles always begins at the full moon of the Jewish month of Tishri. |
|
|
|
Post by watchmanjim on Sept 17, 2017 22:03:57 GMT -6
When we looked at the Greek, we saw that it does not have to say "Full moon" if I remember correctly. I'd have to look back now. . . .
|
|
|
|
Post by barbiosheepgirl on Sept 17, 2017 22:38:39 GMT -6
Couple things: The word Sky, from which these stars fall..is this the same word for heaven or is that other level, like the sky we see? It could be the stars are the satelites that are failing because the earth is shaking so bad that gravity or whatever holds those satelites in orbit fails them and they fall.
The full moon theory will help us if nothing happens over FOT as we can look to Tabernacles then. The sun and moon being affected sounds like smoke (volcanic activity?)versus eclipsing. But I am freehanding without delving into greek wording.
rt thanks for linking me to the 5th seal...on board with your interpretation there.
Was wondering if making the 6th seal be rapture seal too much like we are shoe-horning. then again, heres this thought,,,
Might we consider the number of the seal is the 6th seal. 6 is considered an evil number, sinister, manifestation of sin, This seal could very well be the rev 12 battle. Could it be that people are reacting to this event because it just was experienced 2 weeks prior (new moon FOT)..
|
|
|
|
Post by barbiosheepgirl on Sept 17, 2017 22:42:23 GMT -6
Revelation is like a jigsaw puzzle with 10,000 pieces and we are all sitting around the table working on it.
|
|
andrew
Layman
Still here...till the end.
Posts: 99 
|
Post by andrew on Sept 17, 2017 23:02:09 GMT -6
So let me begin first by just laying out the way I see the timeline then I will show through scripture why I believe this to be true: Seals 1-4- have already been opened- the four horses. Seal 5- represents the resurrection of the dead in Christ (seal 5 and 6 happen in very close succession and are imminent) Seal 6- represents the rapture of the church, the start of the sealing of the 144,000 Seal 7- silence in heaven for "about a half hour"-represents the start of the 70th week and the first 3.5 years, the two witnesses begin their ministry, *false prophet and antichrist enter onto the prophetic world stage, begin to establish new mark of beast system. Trumpet 1- 1/3 of earth/trees burned up, all grass burned (hail and fire mixed with blood thrown to earth) Trumpet 2- 1/3 of sea turned to blood, 1/3 sea creatures killed, 1/3 ships destroyed (great burning mountain falls to earth)Trumpet 3- 1/3 fresh waters poisoned, many die. (great burning star falls to earth)Trumpet 4- 1/3 sun/moon/stars struck, 1/3 day and night darkened (these trumpets I believe will sound also very close together, and would come just before the midpoint of the 70th week, also the sealing of the 144,000 will be completed before these trumpeters sound) Trumpet 5- the first woe- bottomless pit opened, stinging locusts torment men for five months Trumpet 6- the second woe- four angels released to kill 1/3 of mankind with fire ( I believe that those who are killed may be the tribulation martyrs) *The seven thunders- this IMO represents the end of God's work among the gentiles and the start of His plan to redeem IsraelTrumpet 7- the third woe- The devil thrown down to earth, The Antichrist kills the two witnesses, commits the abomination of desolation, and unleashes his wrath toward the children of the "woman" Bowl 1- malignant sores on those who bear the mark of the beast Bowl 2- all water of the sea turned to blood, every living thing in it dies. Bowl 3- all fresh water becomes like blood Bowl 4- suns heat intensified to scorch men Bowl 5- kingdom of the "beast" darkened with a darkness that causes pain Bowl 6- Euphrates river dried up to make way for kings from the east ( Battle of Armageddon ) Bowl 7- "it is done" Babylon destroyed, huge hailstones, greatest earthquake...etc.. Return of Christ That is it. I will add explanation as time permits me Problem... The four and twenty elders first cast their crowns, then the seals are opened. The church has not yet joined the Lord in the throne room. As bad as things seem, the seals are still intact. We will be present for the breaking of the seals. The fifth seal saints are not the Church. The are believers who accept Jesus after the removal of the Church. |
|
|
|
Post by rt on Sept 18, 2017 16:14:24 GMT -6
Hi andrew, I do not see this as a problem. I explain my thoughts regarding the 24 elders in this thread and also in the thread about the 24 elders. I do not see them as members of the church. Have you read through the entire thread or just the part you quoted above? The idea that the elders cast their crowns before the seals are opened does not present any problem whatsoever if you do not recognize them as the church. What do you believe is happening when the lamb enters heaven standing as if slain? Who is the Lamb, why does He appear as if slain? Where did He come from? What changes in heaven do you see happen upon His entrance? What is the "new song" about and what changes do you see in the actions of the elders after the lamb enters? I have addressed all these questions in this thread, I would suggest you go back and read it through more thoroughly. |
|
|
|
Post by rt on Sept 18, 2017 16:22:59 GMT -6
When we looked at the Greek, we saw that it does not have to say "Full moon" if I remember correctly. I'd have to look back now. . . . John does say the "whole moon"- the Greek word is holos, meaning the "entire" moon. Now if the events happened at the new moon John would not have seen the moon at all. But he is pretty clear about specifying a whole or full moon. |
|
|
|
Post by rt on Sept 18, 2017 16:42:59 GMT -6
Couple things: The word Sky, from which these stars fall..is this the same word for heaven or is that other level, like the sky we see? It could be the stars are the satelites that are failing because the earth is shaking so bad that gravity or whatever holds those satelites in orbit fails them and they fall. The full moon theory will help us if nothing happens over FOT as we can look to Tabernacles then. The sun and moon being affected sounds like smoke (volcanic activity?)versus eclipsing. But I am freehanding without delving into greek wording. rt thanks for linking me to the 5th seal...on board with your interpretation there. Was wondering if making the 6th seal be rapture seal too much like we are shoe-horning. then again, heres this thought,,, Might we consider the number of the seal is the 6th seal. 6 is considered an evil number, sinister, manifestation of sin, This seal could very well be the rev 12 battle. Could it be that people are reacting to this event because it just was experienced 2 weeks prior (new moon FOT).. I don't think we can be definitive about what the "stars" are exactly, only that John describes them as falling stars. As for 6 being a number that signifies evil, I am not so sure about that. I have heard that 6 is the number of man, since man was created on the sixth day. Though I do not put much weight in that either. That the Antichrist is identified with the number 666, though he is evil, the number might be a witness to us that he is merely a man and not God as he will claim himself to be?  There really is nothing inherently good or evil with any number, that is something people have claimed, not necessarily God. It is called "numerology" and is a mystical occult practice, so we really need to be careful about ascribing meaning to numbers that God Himself doesn't give. Clearly there are patterns of numbers in scripture, 7 in particular and 12, among others. So I think when we see these patterns we should take notice of them, and recognize that God is using these patterns to get our attention. I would not read too much into it otherwise. There may be more to it, but I would rather err on the side of caution. It very well could be that the Revelation 12 battle occurs around the same time as the rapture. We go up and Satan comes down. That is also the picture painted in Revelation 12 and what has been proposed by those that have studied the passage. |
|
